Wiseco piston update from Baileys

[pinemartin]

It would be cool if Baileys sent out a set number of pistons for free to several people for testing instead of shipping a saw back and forth and hoping it makes it past the UPS handling. If this is a possibility (Greg) I will take a 52mm piston for my ms460 and I will take pictures of install and pictures after 100 hours or so (about 10 weeks) of use.

Baileys has my address so now I'll go sit by my mailbox.

 

[spike60]

Brad is just doing what Baileys ask of him.

Yeah, like sticking his head out of the foxhole to see if the bad guys are still out there.

Brad;

Don't let your enthusiasm for saws cloud your judgement here. The testing of Baileys products should be left to Baileys, not you or anyone else here on this board. And like a few guys have suggested, a proper test would have to be way more involved than this.

Ideas like this sound harmless at first glance, but if something goes wrong, someone has to take ownership of the problem. The way this is set up, it's all going to land in your lap.

Again, put yourself in the position of a saw owner. Unless someone has a saw that he really doesn't care about at all, this experiment can't be all that attractive. Let's say I have a $700-$900 commercial saw in good condition. What possible benefit is it to me to spend another $100 to have someone put in an aftermarket piston for a durability test? That in itself implies that they haven't been properly tested yet. It implies that their durability is still a question mark. Whose saw we gonna test it in? Not mine.

Funny thing is that I've been playing around with some Forrester aftermarket pistons myself. But I've confined this to using them in some blown up saws to see how they do. Mostly for my own curiosity, and I've sold a couple to guys doing the same thing to their own dead saws. In either case, there is really nothing at risk, except a little time on the work bench. So far they've been great. I've yet to see any problems at all. But I am still VERY cautious about using them to repair customers saws, and being able to stand behind the repair. Maybe to a "down on his luck" guy that really can't afford to fix his saw. Maybe to a guy that I know really well. But otherwise, I'm not comfortable with it.

I couldn't even IMAGINE suggesting to someone that I tear their perfectly good saw down so I could test an aftermarket piston in it. And I couldn't imagine anyone letting me do it either. LOL

This isn't a good idea. You ought to get going on that remodeling project and let Baileys test their own pistons.

 

[wi50]

I'd like to try one,
I have a good supply of 066-660 cylinders here and have some that are not perfect but would be great for this test, if the test goes bad, I'm out some time and a cylinder that has little value.

I've got several of these saws, and could put the piston in one and use it, and it only. Though I can't put the hours on one like some people can. And it would be one test and one only which means squat compared to the reputation of other products.

I think it is going to be a good product, but I would be sure to take some measurements and compare things, skirt clearance being the most important I feel. I'm not going to send a saw to someone to install though, I'd do it myself. I didn't get time today to make my parts order, but hopefully tomorrow I'll order one of these for myself.

 

[Evan]

wiseco will replace and probly stomp meteor piston sales into the ground. they are very good pistons. it is very cool that baileys is dealing with them

id would pay full price to have one in my 066 id dont see any reason to test them they are that good

 

[blsnelling]

Sir if Bailey's wanted to test pistons out. Why wouldn't they just offer the pistons FREE to the end user to install in their own saws and give feedback after a lot use.

That's exactly what Baileys did. They offered me the pistons to test out. The problem was, I didn't have all of those saws with OEM jugs. So I tried to come up with a way that I could still help them out, and asked them about doing this. Perhaps I didn't think it out well enough. Fine. But you guys sure have whipped this up into a frenzy, in typical AS style.

 

[Bowtie]

Yeah, like sticking his head out of the foxhole to see if the bad guys are still out there.

Brad;

Don't let your enthusiasm for saws cloud your judgement here. The testing of Baileys products should be left to Baileys, not you or anyone else here on this board. And like a few guys have suggested, a proper test would have to be way more involved than this.

Ideas like this sound harmless at first glance, but if something goes wrong, someone has to take ownership of the problem. The way this is set up, it's all going to land in your lap.

Again, put yourself in the position of a saw owner. Unless someone has a saw that he really doesn't care about at all, this experiment can't be all that attractive. Let's say I have a $700-$900 commercial saw in good condition. What possible benefit is it to me to spend another $100 to have someone put in an aftermarket piston for a durability test? That in itself implies that they haven't been properly tested yet. It implies that their durability is still a question mark. Whose saw we gonna test it in? Not mine.

Funny thing is that I've been playing around with some Forrester aftermarket pistons myself. But I've confined this to using them in some blown up saws to see how they do. Mostly for my own curiosity, and I've sold a couple to guys doing the same thing to their own dead saws. In either case, there is really nothing at risk, except a little time on the work bench. So far they've been great. I've yet to see any problems at all. But I am still VERY cautious about using them to repair customers saws, and being able to stand behind the repair. Maybe to a "down on his luck" guy that really can't afford to fix his saw. Maybe to a guy that I know really well. But otherwise, I'm not comfortable with it.

I couldn't even IMAGINE suggesting to someone that I tear their perfectly good saw down so I could test an aftermarket piston in it. And I couldn't imagine anyone letting me do it either. LOL

This isn't a good idea. You ought to get going on that remodeling project and let Baileys test their own pistons.

Very well said.

Baileys, this is to you. There are a lot of us here that would be willing to do this test that are more than competent to provide whatever information you would want. This would also save a lot of money that would be wasted in labor and profit. Plus, I dont really cotton to the idea of ANYONE else having possession of my expensive saws, including the shippers.

That being said, I would try it in my sweetass 044 if offered, but the shipping and paying for somebody elses labor when I can do just as good of work is not gonna happen.

 

[blsnelling]

This isn't a good idea. You ought to get going on that remodeling project and let Baileys test their own pistons.

I've got to agree with you. It was not a good idea on my part.

 

[Mad Professor]

I'd like to see mass compared to stock. I ran wiesco in dirt bikes and the slugs were heavy as a boat anchor to stock. VERY well made pistons though!!!

 

[blsnelling]

Before all you guys go jumping down Baileys throat, this was MY idea, not Baileys. I did run it by them before posting, but it was not their idea. Just because they offered to have me "test" a few pistons for them, does not suggest that's the extent of their testing. I honestly have no idea what all they do in that reguards. Me thinks some of you guys need to get out and enjoy some fresh air. I guess it's the mid-winter doldrums

 

[Arrowhead]

That's exactly what Baileys did. They offered me the pistons to test out. The problem was, I didn't have all of those saws with OEM jugs. typical AS style.

Send me an 044 piston, I will install it and put 20 hours a week on it. I will even pay for you to ship it here.

 

[Mad Professor]

I'm in awe that Bailey's would be silly enough to use this approach to test any new product. I hope they are allowing a little more clearance for the forged piston. Good way to junk a jug.

50% of (normal) wear occurs in the first 5 minutes, that is warm them up before stomping on them

 

[rxe]

Ew, nightmare.

Anyone with a new(ish) 460 isn't going to try this - why would they. You might get people with a pretty tired 460 (or 046) who'll give it a go, but what sort of a test is that - was it the jug or the piston that failed. Either way, you'll be left holding the proverbial baby for a $700 saw that has blown up. And let's face it, everyone will remember the blown saws, not the ones that worked. I really wouldn't want that risk.

If they want to try out some pistons, build some Contra spec 58 mm jobs and send them to me. I'll take them milling, and send them a photo of every plank milled if that is what it takes. Not sure what sort of a test it would be (given the variable state of the jugs), but I'd be willing to give it a go..... I reckon a lot of Contra owners would be willing to do the same.

(Brad - I'd rep you for trying, but I need to spread it around.....)

 

[CentaurG2]

All is strange and vague. Are we dead? Or is this Ohio??


I thought Thomas was the only one this web site that had a sense of humor. This has to be the funniest post I have ever seen on this site! You only pay me $50 and shipping both ways!!!

 

[walexa07]

Off topic.......but I have run wiseco pistons in my polaris 400. The oem cast piston could really rack up some miles/hours, but RCR racing said the skirts were prone to breaking off and trashing the block. The forged piston (wiseco) is tougher, but the downside is shorter ring life. Compression started off strong, but the rings just didn't hold up anywhere near as well as stock rings did. Stock rings were keystone and thicker. If the rings on these chainsaw wiseco pistons are not as thick as oem I would think you could not expect the same life as oem.

Now what would be awesome in wiseco would be popup pistons for several of the most popular saws. It would be awesome to get them for the 026, 361, 2171, and 2153 for starters

I agree with others that this was not well thought-out by BS.......BUT I don't think he was trying to pull the wool over anybody's eyes or make killer dough changing pistons out. I believe he was just trying to help people out and test pistons out at the same time for Bailey's. What I DO think would be a great idea is if Bailey's supplied a cylinder to go with that piston. Regardless if the cylinder is oem or aftermarket. It would make the whole deal different in MY eyes. Just my opinion.

Waylan

 

[blsnelling]

What bothers me is the negative attitudes, and down right nastiness of some members here. So it was a bad idea. Fine. I screwed up. But a few of you, and you know who you are, are more interested in taking someone down. And when he's down, you just want to keep kicking. I could suggest some of your motives, but I won't do that. It would just give you trolls more ammunition, like you need any help.

Others have stated their opinion, no less in favor, but have done so in a prefessional amiable way. Those are the men I want to emulate. Why don't you bullies take a few lessons? It would do you good. It would do AS good. Honestly, we don't need you here if that's the kind of attitudes you're going to have.

Have I not been here long enough and made enough contributions to the site for you guys to realize my intentions? Yeah, sometimes my enthusiasm clouds my judgement, and I've paid for it, just like I'm paying now. But the mistakes are honest. Some of you act like I've tried to devise some devious plan, intent on screwing over my fellow AS friends. $50 each for a handfull of saws? Yeah, that'll really make me rich Puuuuulease!

My only goal in this thread was to give some fit and finish reviews of said new pistons, and give the end user the opportunity to provide Baileys with appropriate feedback. If you choose not to believe that, then you simply prove my point. You're the kind that has no reguard for the truth and only celebrates when someone else makes a mistake.

 

[indiansprings]

I think what got it stirred up in most people's mind is that a company or individual for that matter would ask people to risk their expensive saws to test a after market part in and at the owners expense! The post might as well said,

Risk 100.00 to 125.00 to see if this piston jacks up your saw, make a check out to BSnelling for 50.00 and 60-65 to UPS, sorry no guarantee, at the owners risk.

It was the way it was approached, sometimes as one said our enthusiasm sometime blinds us. I'm sure Bailey's didn't envision people paying 50.00 labor plus shipping and risking their saw, their too good of company with too much experience. Brad probably didn't think about the way it could be perceived either, I take it the offer has been withdrawn, no harm,no foul everyone was pretty clear about their interpretation, which is the American way not just the AS way.

 

[blsnelling]

I appreciate your candor IndianSprings. I also appreciate constructive criticism. Destructive criticism, or criticism giving with an attitude, not so much.

 

[Eric Modell]

Brad you do not get it !!! Our OEM jugs are precious to us. That is why we are on this site. We respect you and Baileys, but do not ask us to pay for your profit.

 

[wooddog]

What bothers me is the negative attitudes, and down right nastiness of some members here. So it was a bad idea. Fine. I screwed up. But a few of you, and you know who you are, are more interested in taking someone down. And when he's down, you just want to keep kicking. I could suggest some of your motives, but I won't do that. It would just give you trolls more ammunition, like you need any help.

Others have stated their opinion, no less in favor, but have done so in a prefessional amiable way. Those are the men I want to emulate. Why don't you bullies take a few lessons? It would do you good. It would do AS good. Honestly, we don't need you here if that's the kind of attitudes you're going to have.

Have I not been here long enough and made enough contributions to the site for you guys to realize my intentions? Yeah, sometimes my enthusiasm clouds my judgement, and I've paid for it, just like I'm paying now. But the mistakes are honest. Some of you act like I've tried to devise some devious plan, intent on screwing over my fellow AS friends. $50 each for a handfull of saws? Yeah, that'll really make me rich Puuuuulease!

My only goal in this thread was to give some fit and finish reviews of said new pistons, and give the end user the opportunity to provide Baileys with appropriate feedback. If you choose not to believe that, then you simply prove my point. You're the kind that has no reguard for the truth and only celebrates when someone else makes a mistake.

The usual blsnelling flip and twist it around play. We have grown tired of it Sir.

I think what got it stirred up in most people's mind is that a company or individual for that matter would ask people to risk their expensive saws to test a after market part in and at the owners expense! The post might as well said,

Risk 100.00 to 125.00 to see if this piston jacks up your saw, make a check out to BSnelling for 50.00 and 60-65 to UPS, sorry no guarantee, at the owners risk.

It was the way it was approached, sometimes as one said our enthusiasm sometime blinds us. I'm sure Bailey's didn't envision people paying 50.00 labor plus shipping and risking their saw, their too good of company with too much experience. Brad probably didn't think about the way it could be perceived either, I take it the offer has been withdrawn, no harm,no foul everyone was pretty clear about their interpretation, which is the American way not just the AS way.

Sir I will send rep your way as soon as 24 hours is up again.

100% what you say , Baileys should have been the one offering this to the end users. Not a $50 one two punch from some hobbyist .

 

[blsnelling]

...do not ask us to pay for your profit.

Go back and read my post just a couple back. This was not about profit. I already told you I realize now it was a bad idea. What more do you want?