What is Horsepower?

[belgian]

to cut the log QUICKLY, the question then becomes how many chips can you cut in a given time period.

This is determined by sharpness of chain, hardness of log, and HORSEPOWER.

This is exactly how I see it. The force needed to pull the chain through the wood is determined by the sharpness of the chain and hardness of the wood. Once you start cutting and your saw moves the chain over a certain distance, then your saw produces labour. Now, how fast that labour is produced, is determined by Horsepower (indicator = rooster tail) .

Torque is a matter of saw kinematics, and can be adapted for ex by the sprocket dimensions. HP can only be adapted by modding.

simple, ain't it :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Drive_1305]

I've made several post, but after reading over things, I admit I don't know enough about it to be posting. I was just going by the equation and thinking, how can they say the Torque doesn't matter- that's like saying the Torque is zero in the equation.

I think one guy was saying Torque gets it rotating and up to speed but then when you make the cut its about HP. So with the saw turning at no-load rpm you start making the cut. If Torque is insignificant, wouldn't the chainsaw continue to cut at or near no-load RPM? Do these Pro saws do that? Maybe they do, maybe they don't I don't know.

 

[fuzzle]

i thought of an analogy.

so imagine a cutting tooth of a chain chipping out a little piece of wood.

if you don't have enough torque, because the tooth is too dull, the chain stops moving.
if you don't have enough torque because the drive wheel is too big, teh chain stops moving.

but ulimately, if you put a little teeny wheel on, you are guarnateed plenty of torque, and you are guarnateed to chip a teeny bit of wood out.

The goal however is to CUT THE LOG QUIKLY.

to cut the log QUICKLY, the question then becomes how many chips can you cut in a given time period.

This is determined by sharpness of chain, hardness of log, and HORSEPOWER.

Disregarding your example of mechanical advantage, (you know what mechanical advantage is, right?) because gearing only trades horsepower for torque or torque for horsepower. It isn't magic!


Horsepower is a measurement of how much torque can be produced in a quantity of time.

Do you get it?

 

[046]

interesting .... just found this thread and have not read back posts.

horsepower is a unit of measurement. a metric nothing more.
meaning a way to compare output of devices.

 

[Simonizer]

Disregarding your example of mechanical advantage, (you know what mechanical advantage is, right?) because gearing only trades horsepower for torque or torque for horsepower. It isn't magic!


Horsepower is a measurement of how much torque can be produced in a quantity of time.

Do you get it?

Totally incorrect. Leaning on a pipewrench produces torque. You can lean on it all day and do no WORK if nothing moves.

 

[Hddnis]

How much horsepower did it take to pull this thread up out of the archives?opcorn:






Mr. HE

 

[SawTroll]

Totally incorrect. Leaning on a pipewrench produces torque. You can lean on it all day and do no WORK if nothing moves.

Right, it is a function of torque and rpm.

There also are several different types of hp, that are not created equal. Most are within a couple of percent of each other - the old SAE hp is a notable exception, that still create some confution.....

 

[Simonizer]

Horsepower is still horsepower. The confusion comes from where it is measured. ie. crankshaft of engine, rear-wheels of car (so transmission losses are accounted for etc) It has always amused me. I heard an ad on tv the other day where an auto motive company claimed "more powerful horsepower". They are 1 step away from a perpetual motion machine I presume. lol.

 

[jrr344]

Horsepower is still horsepower. The confusion comes from where it is measured. ie. crankshaft of engine, rear-wheels of car (so transmission losses are accounted for etc) It has always amused me. I heard an ad on tv the other day where an auto motive company claimed "more powerful horsepower". They are 1 step away from a perpetual motion machine I presume. lol.

Horsepower is the power one horse makes and it varies from horse to horse.

 

[Simonizer]

Horsepower is the power one horse makes and it varies from horse to horse.

lol. Seriously though.

 

[indiansprings]

The real question is, What h.p. gain will a Simonized MS 460 realize over a stock MS 460, with the requirement of remaining a dependable work saw? I like real numbers not percentages.

 

[Gologit]

What happened to the other Simon threads?

And Simon...what ever happened to those saws that you were going to ship to Red Bluff a couple of years ago?

 

[SawTroll]

Horsepower is still horsepower. The confusion comes from where it is measured. ie. crankshaft of engine, rear-wheels of car (so transmission losses are accounted for etc) It has always amused me. I heard an ad on tv the other day where an auto motive company claimed "more powerful horsepower". They are 1 step away from a perpetual motion machine I presume. lol.

That is part of the story, but not the complete story.

 

[Simonizer]

That is part of the story, but not the complete story.

Explain buddy.

 

[atlarge54]

What happened to the other Simon threads?

And Simon...what ever happened to those saws that you were going to ship to Red Bluff a couple of years ago?

Lots of talk about Simon Saws but NO Simon Saws, what gives?

 

[hamish]

Horsepower is the power one horse makes and it varies from horse to horse.

That pretty much sums it up for most of us.

So Simon, whats your idea of horsepower?

Combat Engineers are the only engineers we ever need.

 

[SawTroll]

Explain buddy.

Metric hp (also called PS) vs. Imperial hp (often inaccurately called bhp in the US).

One metric hp is 98.something% of an imperial one, and those are the kinds that are used in chainsaw specs today.

Then there are other variants, look it up on Wikipekia if interested! Not that I trust that site 100%, but it is a good place to start!

 

[indiansprings]

Simon, don't tease us! The reason I asked what hp gain could be seen on a specific saw is that I've only seen one saw modder actually use measurable data to gauge his performance improvements on his saw work. The rest use hypothetical bs percentages based on timed cut with so many unmeasured vaaribles it's not even funny. Being in retail for many years I witnessed so many people try to hide behind percentages rather than giving true numbers it soured me on percentages, Mr. Walton wouldn't let us even use percentages in any presentations.

It doesn't have to be a 460, that is a just a saw I'm wanting to have modded.

I think you specialize in Husky, what kind of hp gains are you seeing over stock with your modifications. Also a while back on here a saw was modded and allegedly was outperformed by a stock saw of the same type. Before spending money a guy needs to know what kind of gain he is getting.

Do you use a dyno to measure your before and after results?

 

[SawTroll]

Simon, don't tease us! The reason I asked what hp gain could be seen on a specific saw is that I've only seen one saw modder actually use measurable data to gauge his performance improvements on his saw work. The rest use hypothetical bs percentages based on timed cut with so many unmeasured vaaribles it's not even funny. Being in retail for many years I witnessed so many people try to hide behind percentages rather than giving true numbers it soured me on percentages, Mr. Walton wouldn't let us even use percentages in any presentations. ......

I agree with a lot of that! :msp_smile:

 

[Simonizer]

The most accurate way to measure HP on a saw is using a torsion bar (small diameter shaft) set-up and a brake. You can measure the RPM very accurately with a laser tach on the shaft. The shaft will deflect a certain amount from one end (pto) to the other (brake) measuring the deflection at various rpms at wide open throttle shows a torque at an RPM. The rest is simple math. (2*pi*rpm*torque(ft*lbs) divided by 33000 is HP. Cheers, Simon.