M-tronic/Autotune bologna??

[young]

all iam saying its i hate working on 441s period. design took 2 steps back in terms of serviceability and thats no opinion its fact. at least the 576 stays inline with other pro saws in the way you work on them.

also i do like the new electronic carbs, but that doesnt over ride the fact they come on the 2 least popular 70cc models.

if they tried out a 372 xtorq autotune, i be in.

 

[Andyshine77]

U still didn't really answer muh question...

Do the auto saws make more power than the non auto saws?

Yes. The 441CM and 576AT seemed to close the cc gap with larger saws, in fact the mm but stock 441 Brad had was on par with a good running 046. Look for post 148. http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/178634-10.htm One thing I really liked about the MM 441 was the throttle response, it was ported saw fast.

 

[Andyshine77]

all iam saying its i hate working on 441s period. design took 2 steps back in terms of serviceability and thats no opinion its fact. at least the 576 stays inline with other pro saws in the way you work on them.

also i do like the new electronic carbs, but that doesnt over ride the fact they come on the 2 least popular 70cc models.

if they tried out a 372 xtorq autotune, i be in.

The design is what I call cluttered, with lots of unnecessary parts. The saw was rushed out the door to meet EPA standards IMHO. The 362 and 261 are far better designs, especially the 261.

 

[Stihlman441]

I had an old model 441 (non auto tune) didnt like it the AV was very soft and it had no guts,sold it quick.The MTronic system has given them life,torque and a aggressive attitude.
This is a stock muff modd one in HARD wood.

[video=youtube;NB0LajfE9Ms]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB0LajfE9Ms[/video]

 

[Officer's Match]

I figured I'd quote muh self from the beginning. It really isn't my intentions to piss anybody off.

From those of you who have em, you seem to love em. In fact, y'all are quite passionate about it. That's great. I hope they give you years of trouble free service.

But I got a couple questions for my fellow modders. As in, you do your own port work/saw modification. You know, us one percenters.

Does the autotune/M-Tronic make the saw more powerful like Stihl and Husky claim? Do you believe that the auto systems give you maximum power in every RPM range, at every given moment?

Yes, the M-Tronic in question appears responsible for turning a much maligned 441 Stihl into a saw that is very easy to wanna' run. Maybe they were being nice, but I got a lotta' compliments from folks that ran my C-M at Bill's Ohio GTG last month. That said, if and when Stihl or Husky improves the M-Tronic/AT offering (ie a "cleaner" 442 or AT on a 372), I'll be CAD-ing again. 'Til then, I'll keep hitting the EASY button that is my snotty 441C.

 

[imagineero]

I'll throw in my 2c worth. I've had a 441cm for a couple months now. FWIW, it's the R model which has the stiffer AV springs, high output oiler, bigger clutch cover, twin dogs etc.

I run a full time tree service with about a dozen saws in use daily. We only go through about 40 gallons of fuel a month which isn't really that much. The work load varies from very light on smaller trims up to as much as 5 or 6 gallons a day on jobs where we rip up a lot of barrels. I've never been a fan of the newer saws. I've run most of them, but came away feeling they were slow, gutless, heavy and generally not worth it. My favorite saw has always been the 044.

I'm a convert to the autotune. I'm thinking of selling a couple of my 044's and getting 441cm's. Longevity isn't a great concern of mine; my saws only run a couple years before there's not really anything left of them. I'm concerned with power, reliability, weight, and fuel consumption... in that order. I'm not concerned by the lack of screws on the carb. I hate having caps on screws, because saws need to be adjusted. Hate having a rich saw, or worse a lean saw. But with the autotune why would I want to adjust? To get a less than optimum setting?

power
The autotune stuff does work. All my saws are at least muff modded. Some have the base gaskets removed. I've also got one of brads ported 660's. I tune all my own saws in the cut. They're also fitted with tachs which makes life easy to get base settings. The 441c beats my tach and screwdriver. It has more power than my 044's for sure. I'm running a 28" ES lite on the 441, and the 044s are running 20" and 25". All full comp semi chisel. The 441 with a 28" keeps up easily with an 044 running 25", both buried. It's a little behind a 20" 044 buried, but that's a lot of extra wood. I couldn't put a 28" bar on an 044. The balance is perfect with the lite bar, same feel as a 20" on an 044.

an easy life
I've got the HD2 filters on my 044's and 660. I clean them out twice a day. The 441c has the same filter. I've had it 2 months running daily and havent had to clean it out yet. That air routing stuff works. It also starts real easy. like, 2 fingers easy slow pull over easy. When you're starting saw's 100+ times a day that's a nice feature. I've got no idea why they put that decomp on there. The AV really does work, which is pleasant if you are running a saw all day every day. It has less emissions about it which is also nice. The fuel economy is surprising. I don't know if the tank is bigger than on the 044, but my god it gets some work done! about 1/3 more than my 044's.

I think if I was a homeowner/occasional user I'd be loving the autotune. Those guys have no idea, they just want to cut wood. If I was a serious amateur then I might not like it. Those guys want a saw to last for 25 years and only use it occasionally. For those guys, fiddling with the saw is a large part of the pleasure of owning it. For me, I just need to cut a lot of wood. I don't want to spend more time/money servicing my saws.

Shaun

 

[imagineero]

From those of you who have em, you seem to love em. In fact, y'all are quite passionate about it. That's great. I hope they give you years of trouble free service.

But I got a couple questions for my fellow modders. As in, you do your own port work/saw modification. You know, us one percenters.

Does the autotune/M-Tronic make the saw more powerful like Stihl and Husky claim? Do you believe that the auto systems give you maximum power in every RPM range, at every given moment?

You've hit the nail on the head by saying those that have 'em love 'em. I've yet to read a bad review, which is saying something considering how many serious full time saw users have them. Put that in contrast to any other saw and it's saying a lot. People love to ##### about stuff. Look at what people say about the 201T. Or the 441 vs 044. Or any new saw. Try one and you'll be raving too.

RE saw mod work... It's a tricky thing. There are 1%er's, then there are .00001%er's. The latter are out there building serious race saws, custom pipes etc. I'll leave them be, because they know what they're doing. And if not, who cares? The former, are all about building a better mouse trap. Guys who are using these tools every day (ie. me) want a powerful saw that hopefully doesn't use a lot of fuel. When the factory stuffs something up real good (like, say, the 201T) then saw builders have an easy job of getting big improvements. When the factory gets it pretty right, there isn't much to be done. I'd prefer to have it come from the factory right. Nothing against saw builders, it's just that generally when you mod a saw you win a little and lose a little.

Every now and then the factory nails it. A powerful sweet saw that sips fuel. It's a little heavier, but good luck taking the pepsi challenge on that one. All the other features are worth the extra little bit of weight (and thats the first time I've ever said that about a saw!). In the case of the Mtronic I do seriously believe that there is little to be gained in porting. You can probably get a little more out of it in the muff, but that's about it. I don't know if it's just the mtronic stuff.... I've got to think that there's a difference between the 441 and the 441cm somewhere else - cylinder design, port shape, port timing or something else. It's too big of a difference to be purely tuning (which is already correct on all my saws). It may be the ignition timing thing. Brad got big gains out of the 201T with a change in ignition timing.

Shaun

 

[TK]

U still didn't really answer muh question...

Do the auto saws make more power than the non auto saws?

Here's the only example I can think of.

562 vs 262
Both rated same power stock vs stock. The 562 is going to be done first with more fuel left in reserves and while doing it smoother. Is it insanely faster? No. But it's faster - rated at the same power....

As far as mods go, you know me. All I got is muh supah dremel, I send my stuff out if I want it done right.

 

[Bluefish]

Nice saw Stihlman! I wonder if it just seems fast because you cut such big cookies? Glad to see someone cutting firewood in a video because that is why I came here in the first place. Russ

 

[ptjeep]

How far is fuel injection away as far as time?

I talked to a stihl rep a couple months ago and he said stihl has a full blown EFI cut-off saw coming out this year. May be already out in other countries. He also said that the 461 and the 661 should be out by Dec/Jan. He didnt know if they were gonna be Mtronic or not but were both strato. If its a lie, he told it.

 

[TK]

I talked to a stihl rep a couple months ago and he said stihl has a full blown EFI cut-off saw coming out this year. May be already out in other countries. He also said that the 461 and the 661 should be out by Dec/Jan. He didnt know if they were gonna be Mtronic or not but were both strato. If its a lie, he told it.

TS500i and it's already out I thought....

 

[deerjackie]

The better home and garden folks would swear this technology was just a step up from auto sharpen,still aint figured out how it can sharpen a moving chain.Want to see this work on a sawmill blade, a smooth meat slicer blade,yes,but a saw blade i cant see it. not tryng to derail the thread just saying

 

[TK]

Google it, you'll see how it works. It's quite simple actually.

 

[Chris-PA]

That just depends on how long it takes for todays gidgets and gadgets to get commonplace.
It is an undeniable fact that manufacturers MUST continually come up with new twists on the same old products in order to convince you that what you paid good money for juat a few years ago is obsolete and just won't do the job it was designed to do.
No where is this more prevalent than electronics, cars, trucks, tools and guns.

It should come as no surprise to most anyone who has read this entire thread that I hunt deer with a 30-30.
The cartridge was designed 117 years ago and if one were to pay close attention to the gun manufacturers and sports writers it just isn't capable of killing a whitetail deer these days.
I do however have a freezer full of venison to prove otherwise though.
My favorite tractor was built in 1956 and is just as capable of doing a days work today as it was back then.
I guess I'm just a dinosaur, born in a time when the whole world wasn't disposable. When we didn't recycle we just rebuilt and kept.
I'm okay with that.
Youall have fun with your gidgets and gadgets, I'll just stick to my outdated equipment. It does more work in a day than my old butt wants anyway!


Mike

Actually I agree with most of that and have no use for most gadgets. My favorite tools are mostly old and usually hand tools. I shave with an old double edge safety razor! On the other hand there are some designs that are better than others. Well, you have to define better - I like simple and love running my Ferguson TO-20. What is better in terms of keeping something running for a long time, especially in the world I'm expecting where parts are expensive and hard to come by, is not necessarily better in terms of fuel use, emissions and reliability of the average user. So I am torn - I can keep my simple stuff running more easily, but the AT/MT is much better for the average user.

And a lot of people don't keep these kinds of saws for a long time. There are enthusiasts who are constantly trading up, and there are pros who just wear them out. For the pros the fuel use issue will only get bigger over time as fuel becomes more expensive and eventually harder to get.

And they are only doing this in response to regulations. Left to their own devices the saw manufacturers will give you just as little as possible (i.e. limiter screws, lean tuning and catalytic converters). Stihl and Husky compete, but they are comfortable and each have a large profitable piece of the market. So they are rivals but make sure the prices and profits remain high. Other than things that they have been forced into they would give you nothing but minor, incremental styling and model upgrades. They certainly don't invest willingly in major technology improvements. Beyond electronic ignition, what was the last major saw feature that was developed without external coercion (i.e. not just from competition)?

 

[VikingDrive]

RE saw mod work... I'll leave them be, because they know what they're doing. And if not, who cares?

He He! Totally classic.

The former, are all about building a better mouse trap.

The 044 Mag was a fine mousetrap.

When the factory gets it pretty right, there isn't much to be done. I'd prefer to have it come from the factory right

Factory Edge isn't what it used to be. Quality levels vary from unit to unit. Some are tighter than others. When a standard properly tuned MS441 is not satis-"factory" it came from the low end of the spectrum. They are complex enough now that the unit is quite synergistic and all the torque values/clearances must be within tolerance. I've not seen the evidence that the pathways are machined differently. Can M-Tronic alter bore stroke or compression? I like autotune very much especially for the stop and go in tree care (the 261 and 362 need this bad). No saws take more abuse daily. To grab the nearest saw and fire it up now is it. Let the chip provide the intuition. We're here to put wood on the ground..

 

[blsnelling]

TS500i and it's already out I thought....

I posted a link to it earlier in this thread.

 

[tlandrum]

I figured I'd quote muh self from the beginning. It really isn't my intentions to piss anybody off.

From those of you who have em, you seem to love em. In fact, y'all are quite passionate about it. That's great. I hope they give you years of trouble free service.

But I got a couple questions for my fellow modders. As in, you do your own port work/saw modification. You know, us one percenters.

Does the autotune/M-Tronic make the saw more powerful like Stihl and Husky claim? Do you believe that the auto systems give you maximum power in every RPM range, at every given moment?

i dont think that the auto tune makes any more power than the regular carbed saws. in fact i think it is a lot harder to figure out the correct recipe for making an auto tune saw run better without freaking out the electronics and causing it to malfunction. i run a saw the way they are designed to be run and thats wide open most all of the time and at wide open throttle i dont think theres a difference in power. but i can say that the auto tune will put more wood on the ground per tank than the regular carbbed saw. i am not a full blown auto tune fan but i can make them run well and am happy with the results. i can still build a regular carbbed saw and make it outcut the auto tune but thats not to say i dont like the auto tune. the new technology is here to stay so im just getting my piece of the pie and going along for the ride.

 

[komatsuvarna]

TS500i and it's already out I thought....

Yeah there already out. I asked about one the other day at the Stihl shop. They said they just got a couple but done sold them. Got one ts400 left thats about due a replacement, probably try the 500i next.

 

[Currently]

Yeah there already out. I asked about one the other day at the Stihl shop. They said they just got a couple but done sold them. Got one ts400 left thats about due a replacement, probably try the 500i next.

Where?

Mill&Mine or Homestead?

 

[SierraWoodsman]

Now who could argue with that performance? Looks/sounds like a winner to me! How refreshing to to see someone cutting stove lengths out of it.
Don't get me wrong I've cut my fair share of cookies for saw testing, I just don't know what to do with them when I'm done.