Managing coals

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As far as I’m concerned, the coal buildup “problem” you’re having is the reason I’ll never have another “EPA” firebox… the huge PITA ain’t worth the (supposed) benefits in my opinion. There ain’t nothing “efficient” about the way they “burn” the coal bed… I’d much rather have those coals burn fast and screamin’ hot instead of smoldering at little or no heat output. It’s flat ridiculous that they don’t burn on some sort of grate (I understand some do) so air can get under the coals and actually use the heat potential.

Here’s the problem… an 80% efficiency rating is meaningless if the temperature of the “burn” ain’t hot enough to keep the room warm during cold weather. 80% efficiency simply means only 20% of the heat is lost out the flue over the entire burn cycle! Well yeah, if it takes two frigging days to completely burn through the cycle… but if ya’ have to keep adding wood every 3 hours to keep the thing at peak heating ya’ ain’t gonna’ get anything near 80% efficiency. And that there is a fact! Again, it’s flat ridiculous to have to keep screwin’ around with the coal bed to keep them heating at even a moderate rate. Furthermore, that air entering from the secondary burn tubes/baffles just “cools” the firebox temperature when there ain’t any secondary burn happening.

My old “smoke dragon” fed air in the front directed under the grates… that keep the fire hot, hot, and hot completely through the burn cycle. I could load it, light it, and forget it for 6-10 hours depending… and it kept heating at a constant rate all the way through the cycle. When I’d open the door after an overnight burn there would be just a small pile of coals, everything else was ash that had fallen through the grates… and the firebox was still screamin’ hot. Again, 80 or 85% efficiency means absolutely nothing if the fire ain’t hot enough to heat… and that’s a fact. I will admit that during the “secondary burn” my EPA firebox makes more heat than the old “smoke dragon” ever did… but it’s short-lived and ain’t enough “hotter” to be worth the loss of “heating output efficiency” during the remainder of the cycle.

The claims made that the new EPA fireboxes are “better” or “more efficient” is nothing but a manipulation of the numbers. In my mind it is much more “efficient” to have a firebox heat at a constant rate all the way through a (shorter?) burn cycle, while nearly consuming the entire fuel load in the process. A burning efficiency isn’t the same as a heating efficiency… and that’s a fact also!

When I load my firebox with 35-pounds of wood (224,000 BTU’s) I’d much rather have it throw out constant heat for 6 hours at 60% efficiency (22,400 BTU’s per hour average) than I would have an EPA firebox throw out 80% efficiency for 12 hours (15,000 BTU’s per hour average). In reality, although the EPA firebox will provide much more than the 15,000 BTU average during the “secondary burn” (what, 2 hours, maybe 3 at most) after that its heat output is well under that 15,000 BTU average, like around maybe 5000 or less as the coals slow down… and that ain’t near enough to keep anything except a dog house warm during cold outside temperatures. A heating appliance has to make as much heat as is being lost just to maintain current temperature… if it can’t do that, efficiency is absolutely meaningless. And don’t anybody try and tell me the old “smoke dragon” wasn’t 60% efficient… they can be a lot more efficient than claimed if ya’ know how to run one properly.

If ya’ live south of the Mason-Dixon an EPA firebox would probably be just fine 95% of the time… north of the Mason-Dixon they are near worthless (IMHO) over 50% of the time. Up here we need something that makes heat, and keeps making that heat at a constant rate… not something that boils us for an hour and then freezes us for 8. At least with the old “smoke dragon” I had no problem keeping house temperature at a constant 70[sup]o[/sup] (give or take 1[sup]o[/sup]) from Halloween to Easter.

That ain’t the way it is now, first it’s hot, then it’s cold, then the firebox is so full of coals there ain’t any room for wood, then I’m screwin’ around stirring up the coals every hour so they’ll burn down… while the house cools off. It’s flat ridiculous! By next heating season I’ll either be making major design changes to my EPA piece-o-crap, or just flat replace it with an old “smoke dragon”.

The only thing “more” efficient about an EPA firebox is the (supposed) emissions (and maybe a cleaner flue, for those that don’t know how to run a non-EPA)… and I couldn’t care any less about emissions from a wood fire!
 
Smokee it sounds like you and that new stove are getting dialed in pretty quick, enjoy it man! These few little methods on burning habits are really cool when you get more familiar with them, You'll be an old pro at it real quick the way you have searched out information.

This time next year you'll have it made! :msp_tongue:

Thanks, trophyhunter. I appreciate the boost of confidence. lol. I'm really looking forward to cleaning out this room which is really a nice area and getting my couch and tv back down here. At the other end of the room is a sliding glass door that leads out to my back patio so there's plenty of daylight. I'm just really excited to have a nasty, cold, snowy day outside with a roaring fire in the insert and a good Steeler game on. (which I might have to wait till next season - damn backup QB's we've never had). Just being able to see this thing run is entertainment for me. This is how I know I'm getting old.


I was trying to think of something to say, but I keep getting distracted by your avatar.

Yah, sorry about that. Mila's quite the looker.
 
I have a Quadrafire 2000 and I just rake all the coals to a pile at the front each time I add wood. This always burns them up, since the primary air comes in the front at the top, down the glass, and into the fire.

When it is time to clean the ash there are always still plenty of hot coals in it that are about dime size. I don't bother with them, quarter size and larger I rake to one side, shovel out the ash, rake the coals, shovel the second side.


Mr. HE:cool:
 
Man, I hate to post a question such as this but I'm a month into owning a firplace insert and I guess I have to learn somewhere.

With the colder air upon us here in Pennsylvania, I've been burning my new fireplace insert hotter. I've noticed that the amount of hot coals has been building as a result. If I don't put more wood in and try to burn them down the temp drops in the room, even with the air supply wide open - the blower fans wont kick on as much either. If I add more wood it seems like I'm just adding to coal buildup. Is there a "rule of thumb" on how much coals I should have? How deep of coals do you usually have under normal burning?

I do stir them up regularly - I find the bottom stuff to be black and not really burning.
Just play it by ear!! Wood doesn't last that long. I go by the temp in the house! Afternoon if it's not too cold I can let the stove burn down. But never try and loose your coals. You'll have to start all over!
I'm lucky. I have a downdrafter where the wood sits in the coals. If they go way down I can usually stir them up, throw in a few pieces, open the tubes and whoosh... instant heat!!
 
Spidey, just get yourself a real furnace, you will be set. Oh and props for staying within a deg with wood heat. That is a true talent.
 
For a while I have been wanting a tool like a landscapers rake, but with holes instead of tines. It would work like a sieve, and allow you to get that last little bit of black charcoal to burn. I have not seen anything like it before, but what I have pictured in my mind would be a great tool.
Dan

I just looked, and couldn't find a rake- but I have wanted something like this for cleanout day on my owb.
Long-handle Square Blade Perforated Shovel - GEMPLER'S
I already do a pretty good job with a rake at separating coals and ash- but I feel like that would help even more. I don't think it's worth $65 though
Adam
 
The basket of those double steamers. I don't know kitchen things. Cut in 1/2 with a 2 ft bar welded to it works great. You know the big boiler pot ,with the big basket that sits in it.
 
The basket of those double steamers. I don't know kitchen things. Cut in 1/2 with a 2 ft bar welded to it works great. You know the big boiler pot ,with the big basket that sits in it.

Post some pics if ya don't mind.

I'm thinking of getting Torch and welder happy with a couple old shovels, to do the same thing.

Been raking with the Log grabber tong and it's nowhere as efficient as it could be.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote
 
Sorry, gave it away when I got the Kumma. They are those tall lobster pots with the steamer basket. Worked great.
 
For a while I have been wanting a tool like a landscapers rake, but with holes instead of tines. It would work like a sieve, and allow you to get that last little bit of black charcoal to burn. I have not seen anything like it before, but what I have pictured in my mind would be a great tool.

I always rake them to the air supply, they will burn to ash. It would be handy to have an efficient separator though.

The hedge we are burning has a monster coal phase, so managing it is important for best performance. My wife is pretty on top of it, but it would be nice to give her the best tool for the job.

Dan

I have used one of the metal scoopers used to scoop kitty litter with. It works really good.
 
Spidey, just get yourself a real furnace, you will be set.

You're right... I should just quit bit.. er... complaining and get one.
The problem is, this old farmhouse is way to small for a "real" furnace (single story, under 1500 sq ft on the main... Heck, the LP furnace is only rated at 70,000 BTU's and it's over sized).
My EPA firebox is extremely well built, as far as construction and materials (better than I've ever built)), modifying it is a good solution.
 
Well, I'm sad to say it's closing in on 1pm and the temps outside are inching upwards - currently 53*F. Suddenly, my sense of worth in my home feels a bit less. :laugh: What the heck I'm I going to do now?! 61* tomorrow and 62* on Tuesday is just not looking so good. I thought I'd never see a day in the winter (technically still fall, yes) that I'd be unhappy to see temps above 50. Could this insert be a life-changing appliance? Well, I don't think so but if it get me through winter without obsessing about how cold it is outside, so be it. I'm going to try to keep coals going till evening then get'er back up with a smaller fire overnight. I saw the temps hit 80* down here last night so I doubt I'll be loading as I did. I guess I'll just have to take the day off tomorrow and enjoy another frig'n birthday. These damn things coming every year's getting older than me. :laugh:
 
Life changing? Oh yea, well at least in regard to you *feeling* warm enough in the winter. Try living with the furnace on for just a day or two without using the stove and you'll see what I mean.

Even with a furnace set at 70 you'll feel like your freezing to death without the stove going. I will cut, haul, split and stack firewood until I literally drop dead or do so trying to accomplish the task. Even if it comes to buying wood when I can't get around any longer I'll have a wheel chair ramp to the wood pile if it comes to that! :D
 
Life changing? Oh yea, well at least in regard to you *feeling* warm enough in the winter. Try living with the furnace on for just a day or two without using the stove and you'll see what I mean.

Even with a furnace set at 70 you'll feel like your freezing to death without the stove going. I will cut, haul, split and stack firewood until I literally drop dead or do so trying to accomplish the task. Even if it comes to buying wood when I can't get around any longer I'll have a wheel chair ramp to the wood pile if it comes to that! :D

Yes sir, I agree. One huge benefit that I see is the condition of my skin. Now, firstly, I'm not a lotioner or skin conditioner kind of guy. I hate the stuff and would rather have my hands feel like 60 grit but.... I am married to a rather good-looking younger lady who despises my 60 grit hands. And, in order for me to put said hands on said wife's body, I do have to bite the bullet and smooth out a bit. :laugh: One thing that I've noticed is that, with my living area being in the mid 70's now, I have summer level oils in my skin. The mrs. has already noticed and has made quite a few comments about how nice my skin is. So there's more than one benefit to wood burning. :D

I've been keeping the fire going all day by adding one smaller split at a time. I rake the coals to a nice mound that runs left to right and throw the split on top with the O2 supply cut back. This way I can get it back up tonight when the temps drop.

Another month and I'll be running this thing full-tilt.
 
Wood stoves are good for the skin- Really!? All the years I sold and installed them I heard every excuse in the book from "him" to "her" extolling the benefits of wood heat. I certainly jumped right aboard that band wagon to further the gentleman's cause when it was appropriate.

Usually an invite to the house for a cup of coffee and a sit down next to the stove was all it ever took to make a believer out of someone not personally experienced in owning a stove.

That's the first time I ever heard that one, and the fact it made a younger lady happy makes it that much better! :cheers:
 
when it gets cold enough to be running 24/7, I'll clean out the ash in the morning when I can sort the coals out and use them to continue the fire.
 
Well, I'm sad to say it's closing in on 1pm and the temps outside are inching upwards - currently 53*F. Suddenly, my sense of worth in my home feels a bit less. :laugh: What the heck I'm I going to do now?! 61* tomorrow and 62* on Tuesday is just not looking so good. I thought I'd never see a day in the winter (technically still fall, yes) that I'd be unhappy to see temps above 50. Could this insert be a life-changing appliance? Well, I don't think so but if it get me through winter without obsessing about how cold it is outside, so be it. I'm going to try to keep coals going till evening then get'er back up with a smaller fire overnight. I saw the temps hit 80* down here last night so I doubt I'll be loading as I did. I guess I'll just have to take the day off tomorrow and enjoy another frig'n birthday. These damn things coming every year's getting older than me. :laugh:

HAPPY BIRTHDAY! :bday: :wave: :poke: :D

You keep talkin 'bout this younger, good lookin lady you got...we's startin to think ya ain't even married. (pics prove otherwise) :hmm3grin2orange:
 
When I burn just oak I have that problem with coals build up with not much heat output. I solved the problem by burning dry white pine on top of the coals with the air wide open. It make powder ash out of the coals and the pine cranks the heat up also. I keep a separate pile of dry pine just for coal management. Why waste the coals? Burn some dry soft wood on top and watch them burn up into powder ash while getting all the heat out of the coals.
 
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Happy Birthday Smokee! Hope you enjoy many more of em in good health with that new stove.

Thank you, sir! Funny how it's Dec 3rd and was 61* today. I took a fly fishing trip the last weekend of April this year and it snowed and never got above 40. Personally, I'd rather have it the other way around. Oh well, I cleaned out the insert really well today. She's all ready to go Wednesday when things get back to normal. Thanks again, buddy.
 
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