Alternative to sharpening your chain

[Hedgerow]

Oh, and I spent WAAAYYY more than 5 minutes working a play chain over last night in the shop...
Makes no economic sense whatsoever, but the 372 is gonna sooooo kick Sunfish's butt this spring...

 

[Tree Sling'r]

Sounds like many of you have a time frame for how fast you can put "licks" on you chain. Mine is done when it's razor sharp, haha.

BTW, the OP throws his chains away because he does not know how to sharpen. 2dogs hit the nail on the head, learn, ask for help.

 

[sunfish]

Oh, and I spent WAAAYYY more than 5 minutes working a play chain over last night in the shop...
Makes no economic sense whatsoever, but the 372 is gonna sooooo kick Sunfish's butt this spring...

Your gonna save that chain for Spring?

The 365 will be ready bro... Hand filled semi-chisel! :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Hedgerow]

Your gonna save that chain for Spring?

The 365 will be ready bro... Hand filled semi-chisel! :hmm3grin2orange:

You think I can have a loop of fast chain hangin' on the wall and not touch it till spring???
Gonna be tough...
:msp_sneaky:

 

[Chris-PA]

There are two different arguments being made on this thread. One is an emotional argument ("Hey, that's just wrong!") and the other is economic. What makes economic sense doesn't always make emotional sense, and visa-verse. I'll ignore the emotional argument.

The root question is: How much money is generated by a given saw chain over the course of it's usable life?

The economic argument pivots on the cost of labor. At a certain point, it is economically more advantageous to replace rather than repair. We all know that. Now, at what point this happens with a saw chain is another question. It's a bit complex. The business owner wants to keep the cost per cut as low as possible. So you have to weigh the material costs against the labor costs. I can see hiring low-wage workers who can swing a saw, but not sharpen the chain. Or having high wage union workers who can touch up a chain just perfectly, but take a half-hour @ $35/per to do it. Or the sole proprietor who doesn't want to pay himself his average hourly to sharpen chain. But let's say your shop will sharpen a 20" loop for $8.50. New Oregon chain is $12.99 (Bailey's has a sale right now). One of your employees has to take the chains to the shop and pick them up. Your workers have to keep the sharp and dull chains separated. Simple, yes, but so are a lot of employees.

Also keep in mind, those dull, but nearly new chains represent a business opportunity for someone else. So before you declare swapping out chains to be a a waste, you have to look at the economics. How much money is generated by a given chain over it's lifetime? Buying new chain makes money for the chain manufacturer, that means jobs. Makes money for the seller, that means jobs. Might save money for the user, under certain circumstances. May create a business opportunity for someone to sharpen and resell those almost-new chains. Would save money for the person buying a good used chain at a reduced price.

Hey, it's not how I do things, but it can make perfect sense.

If you are a homeowner saw user, none of this applies and you should learn to file your chains. But, again, it's your choice.

My point is really that we value things using only the $ as a guide, but this method of valuing things is distorted by cheap energy and easy credit. We notice this when it seems to make sense to dispose of something that still has obvious value - like a saw chain that merely needs a little sharpening. The cost of that steel chain is apparently reduced to the point where it seems not to be worth as much as five or ten minutes of human labor, thanks mostly to the abundant and cheap energy used to make and ship it. I believe that to be a temporary situation that is ending now, and things like specialty steel saw chain will become much more expensive relative to human labor.

We get hung up on the idea that a $ accurately represents the value of things, but in this case people's intuition that a loop of saw chain that's only been used once is still of value is not wrong.

 

[Trx250r180]

You can find them in the chainsaw FAQ thread!



...if you can find the chainsaw FAQ thread...

thats my point ,maybe a refresher how to sharpen a chain ,be nice to see what works for everyone and what doesnt

 

[woodsroad]

We get hung up on the idea that a $ accurately represents the value of things, but in this case people's intuition that a loop of saw chain that's only been used once is still of value is not wrong.

Absolutely. "Value" does have a wealth of meanings, however.

"Cheap" energy, though, may be with us for some time to come in the form of shale gas.
All you will need to do is to carry around a 20# tank with your saw. maybe in a backpack, like a flamethrower.

 

[sunfish]

AMEN brother Don!!!
Now...
Where did I put that Tom T. Hall cd???
:msp_confused:

I remember you being somewhat of a Stihl Head...

But you saw the light! :msp_sneaky: :msp_tongue:

 

[jh35]

thats my point ,maybe a refresher how to sharpen a chain ,be nice to see what works for everyone and what doesnt

Yes please. I've been using a grinder for nearly 20 years. I do my own, FIL's and sometimes dad's. I'm not real proud of how they cut. They cut OK, and I've tried different things like dressing the wheel more frequently, lighter cuts and such but I just don't get the results like I'm hearing here. I cut the rakers back probably a bit much.

I'm here to learn and profess to no one that I know what I'm doing. I will be getting a file soon after trying to do without so long because I don't like filing.

Thaks for the good info.

Jeff

 

[sunfish]

I just ordered 36 files from Bailey's, most I've ever ordered, but on sale and high quality.

Just file until the top edge is sharp. Check rakers every 3-4 sharpenings and adjust accordingly.

Ya have to look at what you are doing! If reading glasses are needed, Use them!!!

Easy as can be!

 

[Hedgerow]

I remember you being somewhat of a Stihl Head...

But you saw the light! :msp_sneaky: :msp_tongue:

It was all I had for 20 years... I knew no better...
I walked in darkness....
But then I bought a 372...
Mine eyes were opened....
Then the 79er!!!
Opened again!!!
Then square ground chain!!!!
Is there no end to these revalations!!????

 

[sunfish]

It was all I had for 20 years... I knew no better...
I walked in darkness....
But then I bought a 372...
Mine eyes were opened....
Then the 79er!!!
Opened again!!!
Then square ground chain!!!!
Is there no end to these revalations!!????

All I knew was Poulan for 25 years. The good old days!

Then discovered XP saws!!! No need for me to look further!!!

Been hand filling since 1977!!! :msp_mellow:

 

[HEAVY FUEL]

It was all I had for 20 years... I knew no better...
I walked in darkness....
But then I bought a 372...
Mine eyes were opened....
Then the 79er!!!
Opened again!!!
Then square ground chain!!!!
Is there no end to these revalations!!????

Then Cheese Whips..
Then Leinies Creamy Dark out if the tap...

Just like bein a kid. All over again!

 

[Hedgerow]

Then Cheese Whips..
Then Leinies Creamy Dark out if the tap...

Just like bein a kid. All over again!

AMEN brother Jon!!!

Now....
To master the goofy file...
:beat_brick:

 

[Trx250r180]

Yes please. I've been using a grinder for nearly 20 years. I do my own, FIL's and sometimes dad's. I'm not real proud of how they cut. They cut OK, and I've tried different things like dressing the wheel more frequently, lighter cuts and such but I just don't get the results like I'm hearing here. I cut the rakers back probably a bit much.

I'm here to learn and profess to no one that I know what I'm doing. I will be getting a file soon after trying to do without so long because I don't like filing.

Thaks for the good info.

Jeff

im not very good with a file ,i run mostly square chain though so its a different deal than round ,im game for posting what little i know about sharpening with a grinder ,am sure ill be attacked by the pros ,but what the heck ,hoefully they would show us the what works for them ,ill take some pics with my silvey and my oregon grinder tonight ,see how this turns out

i have some new off the roll oregon chain ,square ,i can regrind and try to show the difference between an off the roll and a ground one

 

[Tree Sling'r]

Anyone have a good pizza recipe???

 

[HEAVY FUEL]

Anyone have a good pizza recipe???

No, when Hedgerow showed up at my place with 8 of them the other night, there is no time for questions. You just start eating while the gettins good!!

 

[slowp]

Anyone have a good pizza recipe???

I use the turkey sausage on mine because it might be healthier. But I'm not making any pizza for a while.
I am trying, again, to shrink a bit.

The healthy crust has yeast, flour, two tbsp of olive oil and water in it. Pretty simple.

 

[edisto]

thats my point ,maybe a refresher how to sharpen a chain ,be nice to see what works for everyone and what doesnt

We can start here:

What brand of chain should I buy?
Links: 1, 2, 3 (Carlton), 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 (Carlton), 12, 13, 14, 15, 16,17 (comparison chart), 18, 19, 20...and so on.

Chisel, semi-chisel, skip...pitch, gauge...what type of chain do I need?
Links: terms (thanks Erick), 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 (gauge), 10 (pitch), 11<-contains useful chain link (pun intended), 12, 13, 14<-contains a link to a whole book about chains! Guess that means I can stop.

How do I sharpen my chain?
Links: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 (how often), 8, 9, 10 (guides), 11, 12, 13 (Dremel), 14 (broken raker), 15 (files), 16<-speculation, theory, and name-calling, 17, 18, 19 (Dremel), 20 (guides)...und so weider.

What about a grinder?
Links:1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9<-hand filing vs grinding, 10.

Sounds silly, but there is a lot of good info on bar and chain maintenance to be learned from "Fast-File Freddie".

HERE is a link to a thread I started on Freddie, and the offer in the last post still stands.

 

[farmerdoug]

Lots of input

Thank you for all of your input. I am waiting for one of the forum members to finish up a ported 562 xp. When I get this saw, I am going to shoot a video cutting on a brand new chain. I will then go out in the woods and get however much wood and come back and do another sample cut. Usually I can only haul 3 cord at a time, so that is about how much wood I will be able to cut.

I will report to you if I rocked a chain and had to replace etc.

I have never used a 20" bar which is 72 drivers vs 84 drivers. There is an 86% spread between the 2 sizes. 4 cord X .86 = 3.44 cord, so I should still have some chain left when I am done.

It will be about a week or 2 before I can get the saw and run this test. I have no idea what kind of wood I will be getting into.

I agree that hand filing might prolong the life of a chain and this is economical.

A chain grinder is not a great option unless you are willing to go all the way with a Silvey pro and the Silvey product for the rakers. I almost bit the bullet and did this, but I could also purchase a lot of chain.

If I make my own loops, then this would save $2.50 per chain. [ $239 / 1,640 drivers X 72 drivers = $10.50 a chain ] The guys with Silvey Pro Sharpeners are chomping at the bit for my chain, assuming it remains untouched. Very rarely do I rock a chain. Usually it cuts slightly better than round ground when I take it off the bar. I am confident I could net $5 reselling the chain if I leave it in good condition.

My net Chain cost for 3 cord of wood? $5.50 This comes to $1.83 per cord of firewood.

I know you will all be laughing when I come back and burn half a tank showing my final cut after 3 cord of wood. I know this won't happen, but I am sure it would give many of you a chuckle if it does happen.

We can all talk about this stuff, but at the end of the day we need to work together figuring out new ideas. You have the cool guys with the Silvey Pro's, The wanna bee Silvey guys with the grinders and a group like myself that either hires someone or buys new chains (one of the members made over $8,000 grinding chains in a year) so I know there are a lot of people in my group.

If I owned a Silvey Pro setup, I would be buying chains all day long for $5 a chain as long as it wasn't sharpened and only used once.

I have a very busy life, so hand filing cannot be scheduled into my schedule as cool as it might be. :msp_rolleyes: