Not yet - sorry.
I ended up spending a bunch of time giving away a few cord of wood. It's even takes work to _give_ it away.
I ended up spending a bunch of time giving away a few cord of wood. It's even takes work to _give_ it away.
New Chain Sharpener
- Thread starter Old51AVE
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Rooted around in my chainsaw stuff and finally found the two sharpeners - the Gamn and the new Timberline.
The burs and handles are totally interchangeable. The one photo shows the Gamn bur and handle inserted into the Timberline fixture; works great.
The shaft diameter is .25" for both (or within .001 of each other). The length is very similar too.
Now we know.
View attachment 301223View attachment 301224
The burs and handles are totally interchangeable. The one photo shows the Gamn bur and handle inserted into the Timberline fixture; works great.
The shaft diameter is .25" for both (or within .001 of each other). The length is very similar too.
Now we know.
View attachment 301223View attachment 301224
wanoyee
ArboristSite Member
Thanks for taking the time gtsawyer. That's awesome... I had the feeling they would. Just had no confirmation. Does the Gamn or Timberline work better than one another?
Also wondering: How could Timberline get a patent? Esp when the Gamn was patented?
A patent is generally for anything that is new and beneficial. It can be a process or a thing. So, if Timberline has made anything new, or is doing something new, then it can be patented.
The devil is in the details, of course. The patent examiner assigned to a patent application is particularly good at finding out what was done in the past (aka "prior art"), so the patent applicant has to do a fair amount of research before the application and be fairly persuasive in the application. That's why patent attorneys exist - they are hopefully pretty good at both tasks.
The devil is in the details, of course. The patent examiner assigned to a patent application is particularly good at finding out what was done in the past (aka "prior art"), so the patent applicant has to do a fair amount of research before the application and be fairly persuasive in the application. That's why patent attorneys exist - they are hopefully pretty good at both tasks.
wanoyee
ArboristSite Member
So something had to be improved or different (new claim) in the utility for a new patent to be issued to Timberline. I'm only looking at pictures but can't see any new functions that could be claimed. Timberline looks like it works same as Gamn...
gamn's patent may have expired. aren't they good for just 20 years with an option to renew? from what i've been reading, with new patent law, a patent is only as good as your legal dept. and can actually be a financial liability due to the depredations of "patent trolls."
wanoyee
ArboristSite Member
Patents, last I knew, were good for 17 yrs upon regular renewal over the life of the patent. Gamn's patent has to have expired. Tried to find it in USPTO, but there's too much to sift through. Don't know whose name it would be under. Likewise for Timberline. I'm actually wondering if Timberline really has a patent on it. Are there any marks on the sharpener itself that list the patent #? It's supposed to if it's patented and reference should be made in the manual also i.e. patent # or patent pending.
Yes, your patent is only as good as your wallet can defend it... It's also only as good as your patent atty wrote the patent which can be a work of art. Try writing a description of this sharpener so it is detailed enough so that it cannot be copied, but vague enough to cover what any knock-offs would try by altering the utiiity/design. Good patent atty's are worth their money if you have something worth protecting.
4,404,871
4,404,872
4,404,872
i just walked down to the shop to check. There is no patent number or "patent pending" silk screened on the timberline sharpener. so i assume there is no patent. i've been reading a little about the new "intellectual property" laws. apparently they further tilt the playing field in favor of large corporations and leave the guy working in his garage even more exposed. basically if you don't have enough money to fight the legal department of a multi-billion dollar enterprise, your patent is worthless or even a liability. then there are the "patent trolls" who jack you up for $40k - $100k to drop their bogus claim, which is cheaper than a lawyer.
looks like this guy got the new portable electric grinder, wonder how it works for him????????
https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=aVPyV336Fnc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=aVPyV336Fnc
wanoyee
ArboristSite Member
These 2 links should take you to the USPTO... lot of reading, images are posted as full print resolution so takes some time getting them to display. Looks like Gamn's patent had 4 other patent references cited. Gamn Patents dated September 20, 1983.
4,404,871
4,404,872
No patent #'s for Timberline? I'm just curious about improvements on Gamn, if any. And yes, wife already thinks I'm a nerd...
good work gtsawyer, a search by patent numbers show a patent date of sept. 20, 1983. so likely the patents are long expired. the brains behind it seems to be thomas a. fritz from evanville in. he must be a good machinist.
wanoyee
ArboristSite Member
Abstract for 4,404,872
An attachment is provided for allowing a chain saw sharpener to be used for filing the depth gauge portions of the cutting links on the saw chain. The sharpener is of the type comprising a sharpener body in the form of an inverted U-shaped channel-defining member adapted to be placed over the bar of a chain saw, and a rotary burr with an abradant end portion which is receivable in a selected one of two horizontal guide bores provided in the sharpener body. The depth gauge attachment comprises an elongated gauge bar and means for removably affixing the gauge bar within the upper portion of the sharpener body channel so that the gauge bar occupies only a portion of the channel length. The thickness of the gauge bar is such that it causes the saw chain to assume a sufficiently lower position within the sharpener body channel to bring the top of the depth gauge portion of a cutting link into contact with the abradant end portion of the rotary burr when the latter is inserted into a selected one of the two guide bores. A protective hand slide is also provided for allowing the saw chain to be manually advanced during the depth gauge filing operation.
You can file the depth gauges on the Gamn?
An attachment is provided for allowing a chain saw sharpener to be used for filing the depth gauge portions of the cutting links on the saw chain. The sharpener is of the type comprising a sharpener body in the form of an inverted U-shaped channel-defining member adapted to be placed over the bar of a chain saw, and a rotary burr with an abradant end portion which is receivable in a selected one of two horizontal guide bores provided in the sharpener body. The depth gauge attachment comprises an elongated gauge bar and means for removably affixing the gauge bar within the upper portion of the sharpener body channel so that the gauge bar occupies only a portion of the channel length. The thickness of the gauge bar is such that it causes the saw chain to assume a sufficiently lower position within the sharpener body channel to bring the top of the depth gauge portion of a cutting link into contact with the abradant end portion of the rotary burr when the latter is inserted into a selected one of the two guide bores. A protective hand slide is also provided for allowing the saw chain to be manually advanced during the depth gauge filing operation.
You can file the depth gauges on the Gamn?
dooby
ArboristSite Guru
I've been working on a similar design(bar mount)depth gauge and square chisel file combo.should have proto finished by this fall. Need to get access to a mill/lathe for a week or two? Trade mark and patents are a hassle and can be expensive on the little guy.
wanoyee
ArboristSite Member
Do you know about provisional patents?
Provisional Application for Patent
That being said... read this too.
http://www.inc.com/resources/startup/articles/20070701/mlechter.html
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You might want to consider a partner to handle some of that stuff in exchange for a share of the profits. I know that I would need a good marketing guy if I came up with a good idea/ design.
Philbert
dooby
ArboristSite Guru
Thanks
dooby
ArboristSite Guru
finding someone w/money or assets to do this is not that easy. So i have to get it marketable then find a $guy at a trade show, maybe. :cool2:
Cloud IT
ArboristSite Operative
Getting money before you have sales is next to impossible unless you know someone personally.
Very few businesses actually need investor help by the time investors are willing to buy in. The majority of the time the company simply needs better marketing help. Don't give up a large percentage of your successful company due to a fear of marketing.
The most overlooked cost to any business is customer acquisition cost. You need to know how much it cost your company to "buy" a customer and factor that into the equation. Internet marketing makes this simple and should be looked at first. The more unique your product the easier it is to market online.
Very few businesses actually need investor help by the time investors are willing to buy in. The majority of the time the company simply needs better marketing help. Don't give up a large percentage of your successful company due to a fear of marketing.
The most overlooked cost to any business is customer acquisition cost. You need to know how much it cost your company to "buy" a customer and factor that into the equation. Internet marketing makes this simple and should be looked at first. The more unique your product the easier it is to market online.
dooby
ArboristSite Guru
I am at this very point right now with a few ideas. Something will give. Until then, I will keep lifting stones in search of ........
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