What is the best style stove, EPA, CAT, down drafter, one with a grate

[Ronaldo]

Well, 6 pages of great info and lots of discussion, but I'm not sure the question has been answered. Spidey keeps talking about conditions and proper usage, while others talk about technology.
For those of us who don't know as much about either, we don't really know what to think, and some of us with fewer brain cells prefer to leave the discussion to the engineers and simply want to know what watch to buy - not the different methods of watch design and construction.

I've been following this thread closely since I have the same question so I'll repeat the OP:

In a large drafty house with little insulation (quit moaning about the importance of insulation! That's beyond my means for now and in the forseeable future), what stove type would be recommended for a guy who doesn't always have perfectly seasoned wood? What features should we look for and/or avoid? Cat? Secondary Burn? Large fire box? Glass door? Grate? Top loader? Cast iron? Steel? Soapstone? etc??

Answer: Your situation, the best would probably be a steel add on furnace with no cat or sec. burn( they like seasoned wood ) with a large firebox. Whew that was easy, I think.

 

[NSMaple1]

Well, 6 pages of great info and lots of discussion, but I'm not sure the question has been answered. Spidey keeps talking about conditions and proper usage, while others talk about technology.
For those of us who don't know as much about either, we don't really know what to think, and some of us with fewer brain cells prefer to leave the discussion to the engineers and simply want to know what watch to buy - not the different methods of watch design and construction.

I've been following this thread closely since I have the same question so I'll repeat the OP:

In a large drafty house with little insulation (quit moaning about the importance of insulation! That's beyond my means for now and in the forseeable future), what stove type would be recommended for a guy who doesn't always have perfectly seasoned wood? What features should we look for and/or avoid? Cat? Secondary Burn? Large fire box? Glass door? Grate? Top loader? Cast iron? Steel? Soapstone? etc??

How is it heated now - or how was it heated in the past?

 

[oldspark]

Well, 6 pages of great info and lots of discussion, but I'm not sure the question has been answered. Spidey keeps talking about conditions and proper usage, while others talk about technology.
For those of us who don't know as much about either, we don't really know what to think, and some of us with fewer brain cells prefer to leave the discussion to the engineers and simply want to know what watch to buy - not the different methods of watch design and construction.

I've been following this thread closely since I have the same question so I'll repeat the OP:

In a large drafty house with little insulation (quit moaning about the importance of insulation! That's beyond my means for now and in the forseeable future), what stove type would be recommended for a guy who doesn't always have perfectly seasoned wood? What features should we look for and/or avoid? Cat? Secondary Burn? Large fire box? Glass door? Grate? Top loader? Cast iron? Steel? Soapstone? etc??

That's easy to answer, an older pre EPA stove with a large fire box and a baffle.
Easier on the pocket book also.

 

[Locust Cutter]

Or a new version thereof, like a Wonderwood, or similarly durable, effective design. Possibly two if you have enough area to heat and are trying to heat off of wood only. An old style OWB would also be a great consideration.

 

[davidbradley360]

I have two old stoves and a house with air leaks, bad windows, and a new addition without insulation yet. I have been reading on the other sight how great these modern stoves are, but there are a few here that do not agree. Our main stove that we have been burning for over twenty five years is a Earth stove without grates works great. Spider please make a comment on no grates air on top no problems with wet green wood. Our new stove is a Riteway furnace that is a hybrid down drafter with grates makes lots of coals. We have only been burning it for few weeks and have a lot to learn about it. WE did burn a smaller Riteway for over ten years.

let's just cut right to the chase. the only reason these new downdraft, cat, recirc, etc. stoves are being sold and pushed now, is EPA keeps cutting the particulate limit on new stoves. these stoves are NOT easy to fire. if you live in an area that isn't heavily regulated and enforced, keep your old stove. fix the draft leaks in the house, windows, get the insulation installed, and tune up the old stove. just like engines in cars with cubic inches, there's no replacement for displacement. get a wood stove with a big firebox and smoke shelf in it, to slow down the flue gas and extract maximum heat, and you'll be warm. use a manual pipe damper in the chimney pipe and that will keep more heat in the house and stove. my in-laws heated since the 1970's with a Franklin wood stove and to date I've never seen anything throw heat like that thing with a full firebox of hardwood, the draft knobs CLOSED, and the pipe damper closed. it would bake you out of the house being located in the basement, and this house has 3 floors total. they just recently switched to coal because now, wood is more expensive, and everyone is either too busy, or too old, to find and cut/split/stack/process 6-8 cords of wood/year for that household. with coal at $200/ton and wood at $150/cord, and 2 cords of wood needed to equal one ton of coal, coal has become cheaper.

if you "must" go with a new stove guess what, there's a limited list of ones that will pass the new emission laws, so the EPA is going to make most of the choices for you. If you can afford it, get a Blaze King. I'd steer away from a recirc or cat stove, because when the cat comb or recirc block cracks or burns out of it, they cost $400-$600 to replace.

it's a damned shame too because an old used stove is $100, sometimes free, but they're well on their way to outlawing them. we are going to have smoke police going around checking chimneys and issuing fines, they are already beginning to do it in some areas on the West Coast.

 

[davidbradley360]

That's easy to answer, an older pre EPA stove with a large fire box and a baffle.
Easier on the pocket book also.

that's the short answer !!! yes, agreed, correct. add a manual pipe damper and it will heat.
the downdraft stoves work when they want to.

 

[sunfish]

For new stoves I like non-cat (don't want to have a consumable in the stove). I also don't want refractory that will need replacing later (done that). I don't want an internal damper that redirects gases that has a gasket (done that and it was a PITA). I want cast iron, glass widow & easy to use. This is why I went with Jotul.

 

[flotek]

Speaking of jotul IMHO a jotul Oslo is the most beautiful wood stove I have ever seen . It is exactly the way a stove oughta look ..classic good aesthetics with arc window inlay and secondary burns giving a fire show. .

 

[naturelover]

My Englander 30 is just as easy to start as my old WM 520.

Given the choice, I'd choose the 30 any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

However, dry, seasoned wood is a must and I'm trying to catch up on that for next year.

That is my fault though, not a fault of the stove.


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Steve NW WI]

Hard to fire? I call BS, and I'll prove it later this week when it warms up enough to let mine out.

Last year, not long before I put this stove in, I had a thread: http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/fast-fire-challenge.213635/ I had the old Woodchuck up and burning in 45 seconds. (Sorry for the missing pics, video is still on my youtube though, and I'll fix the link to it later.) No reason whatsoever to believe I can't duplicate it with the new Drolet.

It ain't rocket science, brain surgery, magic, or voodoo. You just gotta be slightly smarter than the blocks of wood you're trying to light.

 

[sunfish]

My Jotul F600CB is easy to fire.

I don't know of any downdraft designed modern stoves. Downdraft design is an old concept that increases efficiency by not letting the exhaust out of the top of the firebox but instead making the exhaust exit low in the box forcing the gasses close to the hot coal bed. My Riteway Model 37 is an example.

I've got two EPA Jotul woodstoves and they both work really well.

The Vermont Castings Resolute Acclaim we had (late 90s') was a down draft. Gases exited the back of the firebox down at the grate. Burned the load from the bottom. When it worked, it worked very well! When it acted up, it was a royal PITA!!! Any gases get above the wood and it would ignite and blow smoke into the house. If the gasket on the internal damper wasn't completely sealed it was a problem and it was a constant problem. Stove could not be run low & slow either. Like the Jotul MUCH better!!!

 

[flotek]

If you have the right stove your not going to have to start fires over and over playing Boy Scout because you'll have coals left I. From the last load you burned to light off the new charge . It seems like my drolet never is without a bed of coals Sometime think I could vacation in Bermuda for a week and come back to a glowing coal bed . My non epa englander was always stop and start . Prime the flue with a ball of flaming newspaper ..Get out your kindling get some fire starters matches build a three story tepee get out your bellows dance around in a circle on one leg and repeat magic words .. Now I just toss wood on the coals and close the door the furnace does the rest if it wants more air it will open its own intake and do its dang SElf ...now if I figure out how to make my gmc hd pump its own gas

 

[Chris-PA]

Well, 6 pages of great info and lots of discussion, but I'm not sure the question has been answered. Spidey keeps talking about conditions and proper usage, while others talk about technology.
For those of us who don't know as much about either, we don't really know what to think, and some of us with fewer brain cells prefer to leave the discussion to the engineers and simply want to know what watch to buy - not the different methods of watch design and construction.

I've been following this thread closely since I have the same question so I'll repeat the OP:

In a large drafty house with little insulation (quit moaning about the importance of insulation! That's beyond my means for now and in the forseeable future), what stove type would be recommended for a guy who doesn't always have perfectly seasoned wood? What features should we look for and/or avoid? Cat? Secondary Burn? Large fire box? Glass door? Grate? Top loader? Cast iron? Steel? Soapstone? etc??

In that situation you'll need the biggest firebox smoke dragon you can find and a lot of wood to fuel it. And some good chimney sweeping tools.

let's just cut right to the chase. the only reason these new downdraft, cat, recirc, etc. stoves are being sold and pushed now, is EPA keeps cutting the particulate limit on new stoves. these stoves are NOT easy to fire.

it's a damned shame too because an old used stove is $100, sometimes free, but they're well on their way to outlawing them. we are going to have smoke police going around checking chimneys and issuing fines, they are already beginning to do it in some areas on the West Coast.

Both my "EPA" stoves are trivially easy to fire if you know how to arrange the wood, and frustrating enough to make you scream if you don't. And as someone in one of these threads pointed out, there is precious little useful information about actually operating one in the literature provided. But it is not hard to figure out once you know how the air moves through the stove.

Could you provide a reference to outlawing used stoves? I have not seen anything like that.

 

[Ronaldo]

david bradley360,
My secondary burn PE stove is not hard to fire, it is quite the opposite. Probably the easiest one to light and fire that I have ever run.......if you have dry wood. Water wont light or burn well. I hardly ever need to relight once the heating season starts, because it will retain a few coals for a long time, just add wood and its going again.

 

[Whitespider]

Geezzzzz... I've never had any problem lighting any of 'em... some just require a larger squirt from the bottle.

Still, (and it pains me dearly ) I have to admit, the one-and-only EPA box I've ever owned was the easiest of 'em all to light from a cold, dead start... a tablespoon was all it took.

 

[Eric Modell]

There was a small Riteway, the Model 2000 if I remember correctly. My Riteway Model 37 I bought new in 1978. It has a 7.5 cu. ft. firebox and a 1gal stainless steel water tank inside. You might want to rescue that stainless tank as it is quite valuable.

Ok I have the 37 I thought it had about 7 cu ft. box. The hot water tank will never be sold and we now we have this big stove there has been talk about installing it. Thanks for the information on my new stove. We bought are old Riteway about the same time. Would you call the cast camber an early attempt on secondary combustion?

 

[Eric Modell]

Hearing over and over about people that want wood stoves that burn unseasoned wood well is a lot like........


.............wanting a car that runs well on gasoline with water in it.

Seasoning wood is not rocket science and if a person can not plan that far ahead then they deserve to sit and shiver.



.

Del It is not that we do not want to burn seasoned wood , but some times the bank account is what it is. In the olden days I cut a lot of wood , but after you sell a hundred rick all I had left was green. Now we are raising some grand children and 97 year old grandma moved in with us, her old farm house, we do not always have time to gather fire wood ahead of time. When I was laid off we had years of wood stacked but now times are more like they were many moons ago.

 

[Eric Modell]

My Riteway 37 had secondary air input about six inches above the the exhaust open at the bottom of the stove. It was adjustable and it was true secondary combustion, not just an attempt. In 1980 I added a factory bought catalytic combustor kit and added a viewing port so the combustor could be viewed. On the air input flap that is controled by the bi-metal coil I mounted a wedge of sheet metal that could be slid under the flap so I could set minimum burn levels. Riteway was suggesting using a paper clip on the flat which I did for a year or so but wanted to make it adjustable. This Riteway also heated domestic hot water via a one gallon stainless steel tank inside in the firebox. I was heating an 80 gallon electric hot water heater(was not hooked up to electric.) when then fed into the cold water input of a 30 gallon natural gas hot water heater. The domestic hot water was a totally passive system. Worked great. The Riteway model 37 is a large, ugly steel box but really kicks out the btu's!

.

Come on Del ugly is in the eye of the beholder. My 37 showed up about 5 years ago, for free. Free looks good to me. Hey Spidey the stove was hauled to me out of Iowa, so it can not be all bad

 

[Eric Modell]

The Vermont Castings Resolute Acclaim we had (late 90s') was a down draft. Gases exited the back of the firebox down at the grate. Burned the load from the bottom. When it worked, it worked very well! When it acted up, it was a royal PITA!!! Any gases get above the wood and it would ignite and blow smoke into the house. If the gasket on the internal damper wasn't completely sealed it was a problem and it was a constant problem. Stove could not be run low & slow either. Like the Jotul MUCH better!!!

So down drafers are good when they work.

In that situation you'll need the biggest firebox smoke dragon you can find and a lot of wood to fuel it. And some good chimney sweeping tools.
My chimney s always clean.

 

[sunfish]

So down drafers are good when they work.

The one I had was great when it worked. It burned the load from the bottom, instead of burning the whole load. Very efficient design. But after what I went through I sure don't want another...