The Stihl 362 disappointment

[zogger]

I don't think M-Tronic is going to solve anything if someone doesn't take mixing fuel seriously.

How often are the air filters cleaned? This will cause a too-rich condition.
How much are the saws idled? If it's a lot, this can lead to carbon build up.
The first plug is hard to see, but it looks a little oily. Too much oil in the fuel can cause issues too, depending on your use.

Clogged crappy air filters is the number one reason for too rich mechanical issues in small engines. Or heck, big engines too! I have seen that for decades, doesn't matter two stroke or four stroke, so I agree with you.

 

[fuzz1500]

I think this thread title should be changed . Im not a full blown Stihl lover...but this is how people get misleading info about a saw model....or its metering systems !! Look at Husky's website...all the reviews . Most of the bad reviews are from not understanding how to start a saw..or maintain a saw...or tryng to do something with a saw that is outside its capabilities . I wont say that some of the things arent a manufacturing error....but more times than not..its operator error . Whether it be a Stihl...a Husky...a Dolmar..a Poulan...... an old Homelite....They will never make a saw smarter than the dumbest human !!

 

[shootingarts]

I think this thread title should be changed . Im not a full blown Stihl lover...but this is how people get misleading info about a saw model....or its metering systems !! Look at Husky's website...all the reviews . Most of the bad reviews are from not understanding how to start a saw..or maintain a saw...or tryng to do something with a saw that is outside its capabilities . I wont say that some of the things arent a manufacturing error....but more times than not..its operator error . Whether it be a Stihl...a Husky...a Dolmar..a Poulan...... an old Homelite....They will never make a saw smarter than the dumbest human !!

I learned long ago it is impossible to idiot proof anything. Just when you think you have finally done it you run into a bigger idiot! On the job I did send the total idiots down the road.

Just a very few of the customers I had on the other hand . . .

Hu

 

[bluchz]

Piston pictures were asked for so here they are. These were the first 3 i came to. Thanks for all the input I have seen some ideas i might try. It seems like the general consensus starts with fuel! I think i can fix that and go from there.
Hours on the saws. If you put an hour meter on a saw(Stihl put one on a pole saw we had once) I bet it would move 5 hours a day. For 6 months around 600 hours on a saw.

Training? The Stihl rep came to the job site and went over how to take care of the saws, we had blown a 460 saw up after owning it a week and only ran it about 3 days. He recommended the 361(now 362) and offered to give me one. I told him i would buy it,i didn't want to feel like i owed him anything.

The saws are employee specific, same guy same saw every day. The 460 we have running now is older than the 362 that blew up. shouldn't it be carbon gunky also?
What about the pole saw? it is older than both saws but only used to trim trucks.
Still confused but at least you guys have given me some places to try and improve the life of my saws.

Thank You all!

 

[z71mike]

The saws are employee specific, same guy same saw every day. The 460 we have running now is older than the 362 that blew up. shouldn't it be carbon gunky also?
What about the pole saw? it is older than both saws but only used to trim trucks.
Still confused but at least you guys have given me some places to try and improve the life of my saws.

Thank You all!

Every saw is tuned differently. That explains why some are lasting longer. They have a proper tune.

 

[firefighterwolf]

That one piston got real hot! Not just a little out of tune or carbon build up. I would suspect a significant air leak or straight gas.

 

[janesy]

Ya that would explain the debris on the spark plug.

 

[7sleeper]

I've had a 362 and 461 come back that had completely closed up their exhaust screens within a couple tanks of brand new. I questioned both customers pretty thoroughly. The 362 was clogged up from 1/3 throttle running for hours on end with very little load cutting details in log work. The 462 was run at 1/2 throttle for about 5 cords of 6" and smaller spruce log scraps for firewood. In the old days, that was a good way to burn up a saw because the older carbs didn't have much fuel in the mid range. It is my understanding that modern carbs make up for this with copious amounts of fuel in the midrange. Carburetors are my weak point when it comes to saws, so I'm not 100% sure. What I have seen, though, with really carboned up saws is long idling or low running speeds.

One of the best posts sofar!

I read now the whole thread and two things have not been mentioned sofar.

1. I checked that the Stihl orange bottled two stroke oil is not "low smoke". It is only JASO-FB, ISO-L-EGB! so no "low smoke" additives inside! They are only in JASO-FC, ISO-L-EGC and up. But I must add I only found this site in Germany with the information, so I can only presume that Stihl HP = Stihl orange bottle
http://www.stihl.de/STIHL-Produkte/Zubehör-und-Betriebsstoffe/Kraft-und-Schmierstoffe/Kraftstoffe-Motorenöle-und-Kettenhaftöle/21078-1740/Zweitaktmotorenöl-HP.aspx
2. I have a hunch that maybe someone mixing the 2 stroke mix might be using regular 4 stroke engine oil. It equally has no "low smoke" additives. And it can really make a mess when burning.

So can we finally turn this into an oil thread?

7

edit: didn't see the pics, ooohhh that looks evil! What fuel are you guys buying?

UUPPSSS Brad was faster than me

 

[blsnelling]

Tons of aluminum eroded from the piston crown! Where do you buy your fuel?

 

[AKDoug]

As a business owner, you have to balance out whether throwing a saw away every six months is economically feasible choice, or if spending the man hours on increased maintenance is the right choice. Without seeing your entire operation, it is really difficult to assist with that decision. I know that I can fully inspect a saw in 1/2 hour and that includes vacuum/pressure testing the unit. A weekly peak behind the muffler and the intake side will catch piston wear early. Weekly inspections will also keep the saws cleaner and let them cool better. A 1/2 hour of my time is $30. Times that by 24 weeks that you owned the saw and you have a new 362. That's the point where you have to figure out for yourself if it's worth it.

A weekly inspection would have caught those broken and loose screws on the jug. I can almost guarantee that the loose and broken jug fasteners were the cause of a massive air leak and resulted in that burn down. Broken/loose fasteners should be covered under warranty, but unfortunately you were out of commercial warranty.

 

[nk14zp]

If only one person runs one saw hold them accountable to some degree. I bet the saws start lasting longer if the repairs come out of their pocket.

 

[bluchz]

Ohh noo this might have been misleading. The Stihl 362 that started the thread is not in any of the pictures. it is in the dealers shop in a box. the pictures are from Stihl 460 saws that have blown in the past. sorry if there was confusion. I will post pics from it after the dealer is thru with it. The mechanic that tore it down felt that there was a problem with the main bearings so i doubt it will be rebuilt.

Gas is 89 octane. with Stihl high performance oil pic below

 

[z71mike]

The mechanic that tore it down felt that there was a problem with the main bearings so i doubt it will be rebuilt.

Bearings are cheaper than an engine. Don't doubt.

 

[farmer steve]

Ohh noo this might have been misleading. The Stihl 362 that started the thread is not in any of the pictures. it is in the dealers shop in a box. the pictures are from Stihl 460 saws that have blown in the past. sorry if there was confusion. I will post pics from it after the dealer is thru with it. The mechanic that tore it down felt that there was a problem with the main bearings so i doubt it will be rebuilt.

Gas is 89 octane. with Stihl high performance oil pic below

my stihl dealer quit selling the oil in the orange bottle like you are using. they only sell the oil in the grey bottle.this was after recomendations from the stihl rep!

 

[janesy]

Grey Bottle is awesome...Unless you live in Canada, then its not economically feasible to run. It's so bloody expensive up here, and I've not seen any at a dealer in years.

In Florida however, it's cheap as dirt. Conveniently my mother has a home there.

 

[7sleeper]

Ohh noo this might have been misleading. The Stihl 362 that started the thread is not in any of the pictures. it is in the dealers shop in a box. the pictures are from Stihl 460 saws that have blown in the past. sorry if there was confusion. I will post pics from it after the dealer is thru with it. The mechanic that tore it down felt that there was a problem with the main bearings so i doubt it will be rebuilt.

Gas is 89 octane. with Stihl high performance oil pic below

Yep that's the same oil I mentioned here

1. I checked that the Stihl orange bottled two stroke oil is not "low smoke". It is only JASO-FB, ISO-L-EGB! so no "low smoke" additives inside! They are only in JASO-FC, ISO-L-EGC and up. But I must add I only found this site in Germany with the information, so I can only presume that Stihl HP = Stihl orange bottle

http://www.stihl.de/STIHL-Produkte/Zubehör-und-Betriebsstoffe/Kraft-und-Schmierstoffe/Kraftstoffe-Motorenöle-und-Kettenhaftöle/21078-1740/Zweitaktmotorenöl-HP.aspx
....

7

 

[shootingarts]

As a business owner, you have to balance out whether throwing a saw away every six months is economically feasible choice, or if spending the man hours on increased maintenance is the right choice. Without seeing your entire operation, it is really difficult to assist with that decision. I know that I can fully inspect a saw in 1/2 hour and that includes vacuum/pressure testing the unit. A weekly peak behind the muffler and the intake side will catch piston wear early. Weekly inspections will also keep the saws cleaner and let them cool better. A 1/2 hour of my time is $30. Times that by 24 weeks that you owned the saw and you have a new 362. That's the point where you have to figure out for yourself if it's worth it.

A weekly inspection would have caught those broken and loose screws on the jug. I can almost guarantee that the loose and broken jug fasteners were the cause of a massive air leak and resulted in that burn down. Broken/loose fasteners should be covered under warranty, but unfortunately you were out of commercial warranty.

Doug,

It isn't just about the saws, employees that think saws are disposable think trucks and skidders are disposable too, or at least no big deal to tear up. I had to weld up the clutch linkage on one truck after installing a new clutch and adjusting it to keep somebody else's employee from adjusting it to slip nonstop when he didn't want to work weekends, then go home after he burnt up basically a new clutch. The welds on the clutch linkage were a not too subtle hint and he quit tearing up stuff just to get out of working.

Hu

 

[firebrick43]

I have found some employees with untold hours of training and untold methods of idiot proofing can still tear up an anvil with a feather. They just seem to invent better idiots!

One employee at work is a nice guy but he wrecked a machine 6 times the same way in just 18 months while it's been years since every one else wrecked it. Could figure what was going on till one day I caught him tightening up a bolt from outside of the machine. Every one else crawls in an tightens a 3/4" Allen screw with a 3' cheater but he was sticking his arm thru a port so he didn't get dirty. Still there, still wrecking it, over a million dollars wasted and counting?????

 

[angelo c]

.

Stock chainsaw rings may get soft after several years,

Wind,
funny on most of the saws I rebuild the rings are hard and brittle. almost always shatter trying to remove them..if they have enough "spring" and they still mic up i might not trash them( for a personal keeper). maybe we are saying the same thing?

keep in mind I might do one a month. depending on my mood entirely and the "friend" who blew his up.

 

[angelo c]

My powerstroke 7.3 diesels both have over 300,000 on them with no major repairs. The auto transmissions are original and don't shift odd or slip or anything (I use John Deere hy-gard low viscosity hydraulic fluid in them instead of Dex-III). My '95 acura has 254K on original engine/trans/clutch... only had a timing belt and water pump along with 2 batteries, 1 alternator, new belts, brake pads, and master cyl. My '92 F150 has 287K on all original engine/trans/rear. My '97 BMW 540i has 238K on all original drivetrain too. In fact, I've never once had an engine, trans, or rear end fail on me or need rebuilt, except for my '89 camaro. But it had a big roller cam, forged 2618 pistons, 6" rods... yadda yadda, 11.3:1 on pump gas so I didn't really expect it to last a long time with regular rips down the road over 7K rpm.

On the topic of this thread, I think it's some very rich oil mixes causing the problem. That along with the guys probably running them under load right after they start them cold. I don't let the saw warm up completely before cutting, but if I've got a 288xp or 394xp and am going to be going into big logs, I let the saw warm up a minute or two longer than the little saws I use for small firewood stuff. When my dad mixed oil, carboned piston tops and exhaust ports were normal. Some of his mixes were around 50:1, some were closer to 20:1. I wasn't the most accurate with it either. Since I started doing all the repairs/rebuilds on the saws, I've become quite precise with the fuel mixing and am always between 40:1 and 45:1. No sooted up spark plugs or caked piston tops anymore. Also, when I'm clearing hedge/locust, I'm sharpening and tightening chains and cleaning out bar oil holes and chain grooves as much as I'm actually cutting. So for a 5 hour session of draw clearing, I'm only actually cutting and running the saw about 3 hours of that. If the saw hits dirt and isn't cutting worth a darn or if the oil stops flowing to the chain, I stop right then and fix it. Maybe this guy's crew is trying to spend too much time working and not enough time keeping the saws tip-top. I dunno.

Dude you drive A LOT !!!
I would call 7/11 and ask them to move one closer to you...