Is that like your problem of not being even able to answer two straightforward questions put to you?
There are only two ways it can go, the normal answer or the gypo's answer .
Falling pics 11/25/09
- Thread starter Burvol
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There are only two ways it can go, the normal answer or the gypo's answer .
Bucking one handed? Yup. Especially in large wood and with the older, slower saws. You'd pick your spots of course but it wasn't anything you'd get yelled at for.
Get a good run in the log and just let it eat. If your chain was filed right it didn't take much guidance.
Then you can grab a smoke or a pinch of chew or scratch your ass or whatever else you could do with the free hand.
And if a saw wants to torpedo out of the log two hands won't stop it anyway.
That's not my job at all. Micromanagement only makes enemies. I trust my operators to know their machines better than I do. Sometimes mistakes are made. Sometimes we have conversations about those mistakes, so that we can all learn from them. Yelling is only for sounding an alarm.
Skeans
Addicted to ArboristSite
Skeans
Addicted to ArboristSite
Remember he's down where you need training, a stamp, license, then a jerking of the right person to do anything so everything is micro managed.
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Who said anything about yelling , if you're in charge you have to find out if they're competent & not going to do anything stupid & out of their depth which may inadvertently get someone killed, a faller down the road was killed by a ******** operator who pushed over a tree on top of him while he was walking along a track with his saw while the dozer followed 30 meters behind.
the cowboy operators have made the mistakes already and one only has to be slightly brighter than them to not become a statistic like them instead of the trusty rabbits foot charm.
Life is a lot cheaper in your neck of the woods.
So you've jumped from one handed falling cutting with the blokes kisser really close, over & in line with a cutting chain to selected crosscut sawing which has none if the dangers of the falling situation , you must be thinking everyone but you must be an idiot so as not to notice .
Why would I work with anybody who isn't competent?
Weren't you the bloke who watched an operator take out the cab of his machine doing something stupid? He could have easily got you or one of your crew instead, maybe the meaning of competent over there means you can amazingly get to work unassisted.
BW, it appears you are back to that familiar spot of arguing for the sake of arguing. I tried to help you make your points. No one here is stupid or naive.
This is a falling picture thread in a logging forum. How about posting a few pictures of your fallings or just move on. I’m not a logger so I will just move on.
Ron
This is a falling picture thread in a logging forum. How about posting a few pictures of your fallings or just move on. I’m not a logger so I will just move on.
Ron
Here's the deal. That tree had to come down, because it was in a place and a condition where it was an immediate hazard to firefighters. It was far too sketchy up top for me to cut, and full of bullets to boot. I crippled it to make it easier to push over by putting a face in the back side (where the bullets aren't) and putting part of a backcut in, but not enough to move the top. The operator is a guy with 20+ years experience. The tree wasn't going over, because it was a 36" Douglas-Fir, and those things, even dead and partly-rotten, don't give up the ghost easily. He pushed until there was no more push to give, then let off, got closer, and tried again. It still didn't let go. Finally he resorted to rocking it, because that was breaking the fibers down low. The top came out and clobbered the cab. The FOPS held, as designed. He knew his risks, and was not injured. This was an expensive mishap, but there were no injuries, and firefighter safety was significantly enhanced. If you're gonna take the moral absolutism tack where protecting the machine at all costs is the only acceptable answer, then, I suppose we don't have anything else to talk about.
A classic example of a tree that should have been left once it wouldn't come down with the safe application of excavator force, because when it went beyond that the inevitable happened, sheer dumb arsed luck saved the operator from being killed as no FOPS made is the match for the top of a large tree coming down from a great height, if it had been over a certain size, solid with a direct hit at the right angle you would have been attending a funeral. Dangerous trees whether burning or not get hung up all the time & if they can't be brought down safety an exclusion zone is made around them which no one is to enter, it doesn't matter if it's a fire emergency or whatever no tree is worth being killed over. Having the intelligence & guts to say no & find another way around it is the real challenge. If you think doing the things that old northy did in that last video are ok , do them in front of your assessor & see how long they will let you operate a chainsaw
And yet you still can't answer two straight questions in a straightforward manner to distinguish you from the crowd
I said I was moving on, but if you insist on a parting exchange - I did answer your questions and you don't like the answers. Whether or not something is very dangerous is not always the determining factor of whether to do it or not. If your ancestors thought and behave the way you suggest, you would be speaking a different language if you even existed at all. Ron
Here I go again, last time promise...
Sometimes, a few put themselves at risk so that others can be safe.
As I've said before, I deal with what other folks can't or won't, meaning danger trees, close quarter work near houses/buildings etc, I and those like me, know and understand the risk, accept it as what needs done to make others safer, mitigate as much of the risk as possible and get the job done. When a tree needs down, it needs down for a reason, Madhatte's work is crowded with 18-22 year old idiots, stuffed in cracker box housing, with limited funds for silly things like trees. If they didn't take the time to deal with it someone innocent likely would have been killed by it. Flagging "danger trees" and avoiding them works when you have 400 acres to play in, not when you have 50 feet.
Be it crooked cuts, shoving with machines underweight for the job, whatever. While there is a lot of death and dismemberment in logging, its from one of 2 reasons, not knowing or becoming complacent to the dangers, I.E. real young and dumb or just old enough to start thinking its routine.
In the end Loggers (and tree service/arborists) put our lives at risk so you can shelter your ass while you sleep, or smear the **** off your ass.
flying pig
ArboristSite Member
Tell you what, I ran a lot of cat, like more than 30,000 hrs worth, in lots of very dangerous situations. I've been around a lot of hoe brushing operations too. **** happens, but acting like an operator inside a metal box is suicidal for pushing over a snag makes you sound like you've got your panties in a bunch. I've made mistakes on a dozer, I had three 30+ inch spruce come over backwards over the top of my blade one day right onto the canopy on my D8 while I was walking a lease down one day. It's impossible to even look at the top of each tree when you are doing it, they do land on you and especially broken tops. We would walk down entire leases second gear full tilt, decelerate if we were worried about a tree coming over backwards or breaking and get back into it as soon as contact was made. I never bent a canopy sweep or damaged a FOPS in 11 years. The hoe mentioned above must have only been ROPS equipped, not FOPS. That tree should never have had a chance to gut that cab unless it was a lot larger than what I'm picturing. Even then you can cripple em up just like with a saw and convince them to move sideways to you. Should never be pulled straight back, even though by design an excavator is meant to pull not push (way more force on the stick cylinder pulling because of surface area). In huge trees I could see it being a real danger but not in anything under probably four feet on the butt. I've seen cats and hoes rolled with no visible damage to the Fops/rops. More danger for an operator lies in raking and piling operations in my opinion.
Madhatte this is in no way an attack on your guy, on you or what you are saying. I think BW is being a bit of a bed wetter. Stuff happens in the bush. You can't always foresee every danger. How you react when something goes sideways is what dictates whether you get hurt or worse or come away unscathed. Little bit of luck doesn't hurt either.
Madhatte this is in no way an attack on your guy, on you or what you are saying. I think BW is being a bit of a bed wetter. Stuff happens in the bush. You can't always foresee every danger. How you react when something goes sideways is what dictates whether you get hurt or worse or come away unscathed. Little bit of luck doesn't hurt either.
as for one handed cutting or falling, here ya go buddy. about 4 min in
InfiniteJest
ArboristSite Operative
A nice day for some hi-banking.
A simple yes or no is all that's needed, I can't understand doublespeak
