064 repair project

[bigbadbob]

MattG mine is now 99% together, spent a long while yesterday.
On the pto side seal I tapped it in and it went sideways and grabbed it.
Now on the other side I put grease on a small drill bit and drilled a hole in the seal then tapped it to loosen it then grabed it with a strong pick and it pulled out, wasnt fun.
Finding items to fit over the shafts and set the new seals was fun to. I did a bunch of measuing on the flywheel side seal before I took it out to set it the same as it doesnt bottom and there is no shoulder to stop it. The pto side sits flush with the case.
Passed the vac test .
To get the intake to seal up for the test I used a tapered plug, it measures 12 mm on the outside brim and 10mm just below that its call a caplug and marked 12. plastic hydralic plug (the ones used for shipping and storage)shoved up the intake boot from the cylinder end, put a little grease on it and put it back on.
If you look close at the boot you can see marks where it wasnt on the saw very good and clamp was on sideways to.
BBB

 

[MattG]

MattG mine is now 99% together, spent a long while yesterday.
On the pto side seal I tapped it in and it went sideways and grabbed it.
Now on the other side I put grease on a small drill bit and drilled a hole in the seal then tapped it to loosen it then grabed it with a strong pick and it pulled out, wasnt fun.
Finding items to fit over the shafts and set the new seals was fun to. I did a bunch of measuing on the flywheel side seal before I took it out to set it the same as it doesnt bottom and there is no shoulder to stop it. The pto side sits flush with the case.
Passed the vac test .
To get the intake to seal up for the test I used a tapered plug, it measures 12 mm on the outside brim and 10mm just below that its call a caplug and marked 12. View attachment 467025 View attachment 467026 plastic hydralic plug (the ones used for shipping and storage)shoved up the intake boot from the cylinder end, put a little grease on it and put it back on.
If you look close at the boot you can see marks where it wasnt on the saw very good and clamp was on sideways to.
BBB

Thanks for that BBB...

Yes, there's certainly lots of ways to block these things off... I used a bung on my ms200 - I had one that fitted nice and snug. It's too small for the 064 though. You are giving me the encouragement I need to be brave to do my next set of seals -that is - don't get the expensive puller! When I did my ms200 I was a coward and I split the cases to get the seals out! But then you have more work to do that way.

 

[bigbadbob]

I took an 026 to the dealer once (only once) to get the seals replaced I think it came in just over $50, 30 labour and 20 parts.
The flywheel seal is so small, what were they thinking?? And no shoulder for a stop?? Me thinks they dont want you to wwork on it.
BBB

 

[MattG]

Well some news....

I've found a leak!!! It wasn't my intake block either. Basically it turned really nasty trying to find the thing, so I ended up having to get to compressor out of it's sound proofed area (we got neighbours quite near) and turned it very low and then I got a big washing bowl/sink of water.

The bubbles came from near the muffler. So I thought "it's my muffler block". I checked again - and then I made a new block just with tyre tube rubber and an exhaust gasket. Then I retried out with thick soapy liquid around the area - and yes it's the base gasket joint that's gone....

[photo=medium]3368[/photo]

You can see that it's kind of ripped a bit too, so I guess if I had looked the saw over better I might have spotted it sooner. I'm kind of wondering how this happened, surely it can't have been me when I cleaned it up. Guess it's either been rebuilt bad in the past or it's just from the high operating pressure blowing it out...

 

[MattG]

I took an 026 to the dealer once (only once) to get the seals replaced I think it came in just over $50, 30 labour and 20 parts.
The flywheel seal is so small, what were they thinking?? And no shoulder for a stop?? Me thinks they dont want you to wwork on it.
BBB

I dunno what dealers are like where you are BBB, but round here in UK, I don't like to use them. Me and the wife really struggled to take off my flywheel (on 064) so I went to a dealer. Yeah they did get it off. But they just what we did BUT A LOT HARDER they ended up chipping a fin a little bit.

I would've thought seeing as they are dealers they'd use the proper stihl tool! but no.. least they didn't charge me!

 

[bigbadbob]

I dunno what dealers are like where you are BBB, but round here in UK, I don't like to use them. Me and the wife really struggled to take off my flywheel (on 064) so I went to a dealer. Yeah they did get it off. But they just what we did BUT A LOT HARDER they ended up chipping a fin a little bit.

I would've thought seeing as they are dealers they'd use the proper stihl tool! but no.. least they didn't charge me!

I have a home made puller, my bro is a millwright so he made it. You might get away with just deleting that base gasket and using sealer, just check your squish and dont forget to test the vac again.
BBB

 

[MattG]

I have a home made puller, my bro is a millwright so he made it. You might get away with just deleting that base gasket and using sealer, just check your squish and dont forget to test the vac again.
BBB

I got a gasket set (came through the other day) to cover all bases. So I'm good to change it out I guess....

Anyway I better be getting back to work... the workshop needs tidying in the very least...

 

[Whiskers]

Nice work, it's always a good feeling finding an air leak. While you have it pressurized, I'd rotate the crank to make sure the seals are tight with movement.

 

[MattG]

Nice work, it's always a good feeling finding an air leak. While you have it pressurized, I'd rotate the crank to make sure the seals are tight with movement.

Hi Whiskers,

I'm gonna wait till after I change the gasket then retest. Yeah then as a final test I'll wobble/rotate the crank while the gauge is on. Thing is, the base joint is so bad that it didn't hold any pressure at all!

like I said earlier I wonder what caused it to blow and rip so bad - poor workmanship or wear whilst being used?

 

[glock37]

when you install new gasket where the case gasket is put a small dab of 518 on both just good insurance when you install new base gasket its metal right ?

old one looks like paper ?

 

[bigbadbob]

when you install new gasket where the case gasket is put a small dab of 518 on both just good insurance when you install new base gasket its metal right ?

old one looks like paper ?

My old one was paper,,didnt know they made metal ones.
Took mine off yesterday.
BBB

 

[MattG]

when you install new gasket where the case gasket is put a small dab of 518 on both just good insurance when you install new base gasket its metal right ?

old one looks like paper ?

Hi Glock37

You're right on both counts - old one looks like paper - also the new gasket is metal. I don't what 518 is but I guess you're talking about some kind of sealant.

 

[MattG]

Right now, this is another one of my cries for help/advice....

I've not removed the cylinder head yet, however when I looked at the new base gasket, I see that it not flat. That is, it has a profile to it, in the central part the surface is raised up, i.e. crimped. Couldn't take a pic right now, but here's an image (with the depressed side facing up) I found online:



Should the raised/crimped side face up (towards spark plug) or down? My gut feeling says raised sides up, but wanted to check first.

thanks
Matt

 

[MattG]

This thread/post I found seems to agree with my initial guess...

http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...et-assuming-hump-goes-up.177476/#post-3076798

 

[glock37]

Before u remove jugg spray crankcase down with a cleaner. Scrub off then hi pressure hot water to rinse

Makes reassemble nicer no dirt

When u have jugg off u have new rings ?




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[Mad Professor]

Ok... definitely having what could be called problems right now. My pressure/vac test seems to suggest that the engine does not pressurise or hold any vacuum at all. I did post a while back how I was going to do my test and some of said that you did your tests slightly differently but I think the consensus was that my plan was sound. I'll tell you again and show piccy and maybe you'll agree "yes thats fine - you must be leaking" or "no your equipment is all wrong". So I...

1. cut tube rubber to block exhaust, and snug the muffler tight to this
2. screw spark plug down snug
3. make an alloy plate and cut tube rubber and some metal pipes down to seal intake

[photo="medium"]3345[/photo]
4. as you can see I push the mityvac gauge onto the impulse hose hole

I assume that my method is fine and leaks in boot/seals/gaskets should be shown up. I've some good experience of doing this on an ms200t - so I have some idea of what I'm doing - but anyone can see something completely wrong in my test setup please shout out!!

Anyway whatever I did, the gauge would not apply pressure or vacuum at all, for any time. (I did test my gauge and it's fine). Can these engines get that bad?? (Perhaps that bad result could mean split boot - but as said - I did manage to start the saw a few weeks back)

The second problem. So I thought - ok I'll strip it some more. So I can put on soapy water to see where leak is. Clutch come off ok. I loosened the flywheel nut - ok. Then I tried the way to take off the wheel that I've read about - and I used successfully on my 2oot - light taps to crank end - with nut on loose to protect. Whilst I did this I tried holding the powerhead by the wheel - and I also tried with (gentle!!) prying behind the wheel. The flywheel is pretty stuck still. So does this method sometimes just not work? Do you sometimes have to bite the bullet and buy the proper puller?

Any advice and words of support gratefully received,

Matt

Why not use the carb to block off the intake with some rubber?

What is holding that metal plate tight?

 

[glock37]

Get the puller they have them on ebay that is double ended and it will remove a bunch of different flywheels

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=351399089798&globalID=EBAY-US


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[dall]

i have the double ended puller but it wont take off the new ones like the 361 362 and so on i usually use a center punch and hammer on those doesnt do any damage or ruin the threads

 

[Canadian farm boy]

I have that exact puller. It works very well. It works on the smaller Stihl saws like the 026 as well as the larger saws like the 066.
I have a home made seal puller that works very well too. I'll try and post a picture soon of my home made puller.

 

[Canadian farm boy]

Here's my home made seal puller. It's super high tech and took me all day to make...lol
It's super easy to use. Just jam it between the crank and the seal till it touches the inner bearing race, give it a bit of a turn so the hook is under the metal flange of the seal and simply pry back. For real stubborn seals sometime I have to do this in a couple different places around the seal. So far it's worked on every seal I've had to replace.