066 meltdown and rebuild

[pdqdl]

MG-600 rod (high nickle) is rated at 180,000 PSI with heat treatment. They suggest a POST weld heat treatment with slow cooling, also at 400°.

I don't know about the hammer treatment. Maybe...

 

[Phramer Phil]

400° is generally the recommended pre-heat temperature for many welding applications. You can go to a welding shop and get temperature sticks that will melt at a the desired temp.

Write on the metal, begin heating. It melts...start welding. Easy!

Mapp will hit 400° with no problem. Propane is good, too.

I would weld with a high nickel rod made for cast iron before I would try flux core. If it is really important to look good and be strong, buy some MG-600 rod. VERY expensive, but fabulously strong and easy to weld with, it will join almost any ferrous metal. About $5.00 per stick!

My .02 is that when you are using any rod with a high nickel content it is important to hammer the welds after you lay them down. During the post heat process lightly hammer the welded area to stretch the weld, so to speak. I have no idea if there is any science behind this at all but every old timer I knew did this when welding cast or using nickel rod on hard plate. I have welded some fairly violent equipment in the mining industry using the techniques above, including hammer welding, and had good results.

This makes no sense to me, hammering the weld will not help penetration but will remove the slag allowing you to see the weld. I would love to see a write up explaining the reason for this. I weld often but not for a living and was taught by a master with 30 years of pro welding for FORD. I never heard of this Hammer tech.

MG-600 rod (high nickle) is rated at 180,000 PSI with heat treatment. They suggest a POST weld heat treatment with slow cooling, also at 400°.

I don't know about the hammer treatment. Maybe...

No offense guys, but it's a friggin' fire poker. Now, I don't know how fancy it is, but I don't think that he needs 180+ ksi.

On a non-critical joint, there's no problem IMO with hammering (correct term is "peening") the welds to bust off slag and flatten the puddle, thereby relieving tensile stresses as the weld shrinks and cools. Kinda like vibrating concrete as it cures.

No worries on the thread derail, it's all good tech.

 

[SkippyKtm]

1. Clean the heck out of the area to be welded. DO NOT USE ANY KIND OF BRAKE CLEANER! Starting fluid is okay, just let it evaporate.

Why no brake Cleaner? I presume you mean charcoal starter and not starting ether, LOL!

A sign of improper pre/post heating is hearing a very light tinkling/pinging noise from the HAZ (heat affected zone) after welding. That's the sound of microscopic cracks forming because the metal is cooling too quickly.

I hate that sound! Reminds me of the last time I tried welding a chainsaw case- thats about the only thing I've never had luck with, have you ever tried it with any luck?

 

[Phramer Phil]

Why no brake Cleaner? I presume you mean charcoal starter and not starting ether, LOL!

I hate that sound! Reminds me of the last time I tried welding a chainsaw case- thats about the only thing I've never had luck with, have you ever tried it with any luck?

Why brake cleaner is bad:
http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm

Correction: I use starting fluid sparingly. Most of the time it isn't needed. I also weld outside and with a fan if at all possible when using flux-core.

I have yet to weld anything magnesium via any process (what was your case made out of?), but I'm sure that I could learn to TIG it given enough time.

 

[matt9923]

what paint did you use on the handle/ tank?

 

[Phramer Phil]

what paint did you use on the handle/ tank?

Rustoleum plastic primer followed by Rustoleum High Performance Enamel. Baked the whole thing in the oven for a few hours. Going to wet sand and clear it with a super thick marine type bilge-coat later. The white is a little bright, but I'm okay with it right now.

 

[oscar4883]

This makes no sense to me, hammering the weld will not help penetration but will remove the slag allowing you to see the weld. I would love to see a write up explaining the reason for this. I weld often but not for a living and was taught by a master with 30 years of pro welding for FORD. I never heard of this Hammer tech.

Phramer Phil used the correct term of peening. He also got it correct with the fact that it seems to relieve stesses during the cooling process. My terminology was wrong I suppose. Hammering a weld would be used more for controling panels from warping when welding sheet metal. I find it odd that nobody has really heard of this. Maybe not younger welders, but every single older welder I know is familiar with it. Sorry for the derail. It is impressive the knowledge and skills that some of you guys have. Please don't take that as being sarcastic. I mean it sincerely.

 

[matt9923]

Rustoleum plastic primer followed by Rustoleum High Performance Enamel. Baked the whole thing in the oven for a few hours. Going to wet sand and clear it with a super thick marine type bilge-coat later. The white is a little bright, but I'm okay with it right now.

what temp for baking plastic? my ovens low is 175

 

[Phramer Phil]

Phramer Phil used the correct term of peening. He also got it correct with the fact that it seems to relieve stesses during the cooling process. My terminology was wrong I suppose. Hammering a weld would be used more for controling panels from warping when welding sheet metal. I find it odd that nobody has really heard of this. Maybe not younger welders, but every single older welder I know is familiar with it. Sorry for the derail. It is impressive the knowledge and skills that some of you guys have. Please don't take that as being sarcastic. I mean it sincerely.

Thanks! I appreciate the kind words.

what temp for baking plastic? my ovens low is 175

Lowest mine goes is 170-ish as well. I watched the plastic to make sure it didn't turn into melt-disney world. I cracked the door at first to keep things from getting hot too quickly and eventually closed the door.

To keep the domestic peace, I let the paint dry in the garage for a few hours before sticking it in the oven. Putting them in the oven right away is a great way to stink up the kitchen with paint fumes.

 

[Phramer Phil]

Pressed the crank out:

Bearing is still a little gritty for my tastes after pulling the seal and flushing the flywheel side.

 

[matt9923]

Pressed the crank out:


Bearing is still a little gritty for my tastes after pulling the seal and flushing the flywheel side.

I here ya on the bearings, i like prefect ones, especially in an engine. Mine could be reused but i'm not goign to.

 

[SkippyKtm]

Why brake cleaner is bad:
http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm

Correction: I use starting fluid sparingly. Most of the time it isn't needed. I also weld outside and with a fan if at all possible when using flux-core.

I have yet to weld anything magnesium via any process (what was your case made out of?), but I'm sure that I could learn to TIG it given enough time.

WOW -that is Article is sure good to know. I have used Brake clean (I wont anymore!) with MIG/Carbon Dioxide setup and the smell was bad, luckily I was outdoors and using the carbon dioxide and not the argon mix. I do have Tig which I use Argon with, I just never used the Tig with the Brake Cleaner. You probably saved me a trip to the hospital OR WORSE!

The case was made with most likely a aluminum magnesium alloy, (otherwise known as mag aluminum ). I didn't pre or post heat it, and that may be the reason. No biggie -I was just experimenting on a junk case.

 

[DFE]

In my past job at STIHL Limited I have seen hundreds of these. You have a couple of problems, the first is the cylinder, it has been ingesting dirt, either past the filter, through the filter. The chrome is worn off the intake side of the cylinder. The piston will also been badly worn. The second problem from the pictures is that the saw has been run at some point with the chain brake in the fired position. This generally happens when the operator does not read the owners manual and starts the saw with the chain brake on, (which he is supposed to do) but forgets that the master control lever is in the fast idle position. The saw is running at 10,000 rpm at this point. The heat transfer is high and once the brake is reset the heat from the brake band will melt everything that's plastic.
Other problems noticed is the exhaust side has definitely started to lean seize. The tech must realize that there is 17 items on that saw he has to check in order to find the problem, this can be done in 20 minutes. Sorry for the long message.

 

[matt9923]

In my past job at STIHL Limited I have seen hundreds of these. You have a couple of problems, the first is the cylinder, it has been ingesting dirt, either past the filter, through the filter. The chrome is worn off the intake side of the cylinder. The piston will also been badly worn. The second problem from the pictures is that the saw has been run at some point with the chain brake in the fired position. This generally happens when the operator does not read the owners manual and starts the saw with the chain brake on, (which he is supposed to do) but forgets that the master control lever is in the fast idle position. The saw is running at 10,000 rpm at this point. The heat transfer is high and once the brake is reset the heat from the brake band will melt everything that's plastic.
Other problems noticed is the exhaust side has definitely started to lean seize. The tech must realize that there is 17 items on that saw he has to check in order to find the problem, this can be done in 20 minutes. Sorry for the long message.

What are the 17? I never counted just go threw the passes.

 

[Phramer Phil]

Interlux Bilgekote is what I plan to try coating the handle/tank assembly with. I have a little experience working with the stuff for my short time as a shipwright.

(That's the infamous Northwestern from Deadliest Catch parked out side of the old shop.)

From the website:
"Bilgekote is a fast drying, durable coating formulated for application to bilge areas. Helps prevent absorption of oil, gasoline or sludge into wood and fiberglass.

Bilgekote protects bilges, lockers and bulkheads against moisture penetration and wear and tear. Bilgekote will resist oil and fuel spillage and cleans easily.

Main features are:
# High opacity for excellent covering power
# Hard wearing
# Available in gray and white, in quarts and gallons"

It's $20 a quart, and from what I've seen this was some seriously tough paint. Only after a few years being covering in bilge/diesel does the stuff start to yellow. Fishing/crab boats are really nasty environments.

 

[Phramer Phil]

Brown Santa arrived yesterday. Order from Baileys was well packaged and in great shape. BB cylinder head looks a little different from previous versions, I'll get some pictures posted this afternoon. Started port mapping it, should have something viable soon.

 

[Phramer Phil]

Side by side:

Port mapping:

Transfers look good:

Piston comparo:

Some material can be removed:

 

[SkippyKtm]

lookin' good so far!

 

[Phramer Phil]

Pressed the bearings out with a piece of steel plate and a few washers:

Yeah, these are getting chucked:

Got the wrong case gasket in my kit, there are two different case sizes aren't there?

Adhesive backed foil... No idea where this goes.

 

[Phramer Phil]

Not complaining about Stihl dealers, but paying through the nose for new bearings is something that irks me slightly. After some research and emails, I got a call back from Mark @ LocateBearings.com. Super friendly guy, gave him the part numbers off of the old bearings and he matched them up.

Price: I'll double check, but the crank bearings were less than $14 each.