$200 splitter I bought

[cabinman]

Hoses

You guys are killing me over here , hahaha .

You dont have nearly enough oil supply to use that car motor,..The suction hose looks to be about the same as the pressure hose, 1/2, 3/4 If that was even close to high out put ,..It would have at least a ,...1.25..1.5 in inlet on that pump,..Id scrap that car motor and get a 16, 18 hp motor and start being realistic,...once you start, moter size, first, every thing else will fall into place,..The money you save on gas alone will pay for most of your mods IF you are froogle/cheep,.The componets are out there, if you look,and cheep at any ones budget,...

 

[cabinman]

HAHAHA I like that "splitzilla" . Well its turning out to be costly too . My friend the mechanic got it running tonight . To be honest I didnt think the thing would even start . The last time we tried to start it it was full of water from sitting out side uncovered in the weather .
We took off all the spark plugs and turned the motor over for a while to get the water out .Then we let it sit for a few days ,until today. We put in the new sparks plugs , turn it over a few times , added a little gas and holy macaroni that thing fired up ! It wasnt as loud as I thought it was going to be .It wouldnt stay idle so I think it needs a carburetor . Oh yeah the starter flew apart !
One good thing about it the valves , both cylinders worked , but the small one leaks . I have some numbers I got off of the pump stamp in the pump was 26t d and a label ( Commercial model # A226-21 ) .The pump is 5 in H x 4 in W .The cylinder is 54 1/2 L ,cylinder outside is 4 1/2 in W ,the bore is 2 1/2 in W.
Man the splitting cylinder is slowwwwww . I was hoping that since it has a big motor and lots of rpm that it would be slot faster . I think my little 20 ton might be faster (sigh ).
Can any body tell me how to get this thing splitting time in like 3-4 seconds ? Do I need to get a smaller cylinder , bigger pump , or some thing I dont know about?
In the mean time I am going to put another carburetor on it . I need some advise from some of you experts on here to help me get this thing splitting in 4-5 sec.

Thanks

Michael

Dump the v8 and get a v twin, The suction hose on that pump is not going to work,...

 

[pacman]

I Agree

I think I need to dump this thing because I dont think its going to do what I expect . I am going to see what the hydraulic company in Nashville has to say about it before I dump it .
The hoses are about an inch or more in diameter. Look at the pic . The pump is 4 inches wide . If you can see the pic you can tell the hose is about 1 inch .

 

[Ole Farmerbuck]

I think I need to dump this thing because I dont think its going to do what I expect .
Oh well,been a good post.

 

[pacman]

Not over yet farmer

I am not done with this dino-sawer yet . I have it running but I havent tried to split any wood yet. I just want to know how it will split. I know its overkill on the motor thing . Any thing is worth a try right .
Monday im going to go see a hydraulic specialist.I am going to put another carburator on it too.
There is a guy that has a briggs 18hp riding mower that I might change the motor over to.If I get that far with it.It is a long shot.

Any body want to but a 305 motor ? Cheap !

 

[infomet]

The big problem is that to get that pump going it needs to turn 2000-2500 RPM, at least. At that RPM, the engine will make a LOT of noise and scare you. It needs a 1/3 gearbox to step up the idle engine speed to a reasonable pump speed. It's hard to imagine anyone doing that much work to make something almost useless!

Your mower engine will be more than enough. If it's a vertical shaft, you can have the pump below, as many of the newer splitters are. For all the work you're doing, it would be worth it to get a modern two stage pump that can use the power available effectively. Two stages give you fast travel at low load and twice the force when needed.

Since you have the cylinder and frame, and probably the valves, you are nearly there. Put a spin on filter in the return line if it's not there already.

 

[blackdoggy]

I will take that engine off your hands for the cost of shipping Seriously tho don't let these people bring your project down pacman. That is a great power plant you have there and you can use it for other things besides just running your splitter. For instance I am currently pricing weldernators for my V6 so I will be able to charge my battery and weld off the same power source and use 120V. Some other possibilities would be to add a air compressor and or a 120V genset to it. The way I look at it is you have a great power plant now all you need is some other things to power with it. There are a million and one different things you can do with that power plant and the day after you sell it your gonna need it for some fantastic idea that you want to tinker with.
BTW you DO NOT need to run your engine at 2000-2500 RPM that would just be wasting fuel your safe running at 1500 but you can push it to 2000 or 2500 when you get a tough chunk of wood. You can replace your old pump with a dynamic gear pump for $100 (0.61 Cu. in. with up to 7.92GPM) or $110 (0.97 Cu. in. and up to 12.59 GPM) from northern tool and it will be pretty quick as well.

 

[pacman]

So True

Every body has their own advise and opinion . I will take it all in consideration . Im not just going to drop it yet . Regardless of the comments I think I can still do some thing with it.I dont know if I will get a 4-5 sec cycle time but I already know Splitzilla works . I have had it working already . I just want it to be alot faster . I also am going to see how much gas it uses . That gas is some expensive stuff !
Check out the size of the gas tank.

 

[lawson's tree s]

im having a splitter built for the back of my bombardier it's going to have a 8 and a 12 way wedge for it. can't wait for it to get done.

 

[blackdoggy]

Do you have a hour meter on that unit? If you have one on there just empty that monster tank and see how many hours it lasts just idling on one or two gallons before it stalls. If you replace your pump with one of those dynamic units I mentioned before with your cylinder, you should hit your speed mark with ease for not much money.

 

[cabinman]

Pacman, OK, splitzilla runs,.. If it were mine, Id spend as little as possable to test the buisness end of the hydraulics,..make good use of your time when you do,..If you dont have a tack meter borrow one from a friend,..Run it at 2000 rpm, And ,..while were at it lets do the fuel consumption test at the same time, rince out a gallon milk jug , shake out water real good, strap it to that machine real good, unhook the suction hose from your saddle tank, and stick it in the milk jug,..duct tape,. wire,. bungie cords,. wheatever, make it secure, While your at the sink, measure 1 qt at a time and mark the side of the jug, preset the engine @ 2000 rpm, OK, how does it work splitting the hard stuff, the nasty notty stuff,??..run it for exactly 1 qt , How many minites on 1 qt,..UNTIL you run the numbers on that pump were only gussing on the max rpm rating, Now set it at 2500, run another qt threw it and check the preformance,..and how many minites to use that qt, If your not happy with the splitting power/speed, You could try it @ 3000,or even the same as the small engines run, 3600, These are only tests, and should give you a pretty good idea of its potental,..CAUTION,....If you push that pump past its rated rpms, far enough to break the pump shaft, My concern is it looks like a drive shaft set up,.AND IF SHE BLOWS,. LOOK OUT,.. Id run the tag on the pump before I WENT OVER 2500 RPM, You should find out plenty before you get over 2500, anyway, NOW you can make intelegent decisions on what to chang if anything

 

[blackdoggy]

Pacman, Id run the tag on the pump before I WENT OVER 2500 RPM,

Take your tag info over to www.machinebuilders.net and post it in the hydraulics forum they will be able to help you figure out what it is. On the 2500 RPM caution I agree but I wouldn't push it even close to that before finding out what the pump is because some pumps are only rated for a max RPM of 1500 so use caution or a steel shield when you run it.

 

[jerry wayne]

man here are about 10 guys on this line right now.......pretty cool fantasies for all i guess.....its rained 16 out of 19 days here ,and i cant even get my f 350 4x4 on the splittin site without gettin stuck,let alone that thing.Had to pull it out with the tractor and all were goin sideways.......still got about 40 cord left to split for next year and cant even get to it without the truck& dump trailer boggin down real good.......hopen for some freeze weather so i can at least giterdun too all a grandeocious new year.....happy splittin

 

[jerry wayne]

ESPN would put it on and maybe even sponser the thing.......gotta have a real catchy name though ARBORIST GONE WILD ????

 

[pacman]

went to a hydralics expert today

I took splitzilla to a hydraulics expert today . I told him I wanted to make it faster . I think it might have a split and return time of 14 sec . I want it to be around 5-6 sec.
He said the pump was too old for one thing and I was going to need another one . I asked how much would it be ? I was thinking around $150-$200. He said around $400-$500 but he would sell me a used one for $50 because he might have one lying around . I said what a deal !
I was suprised when he told me that. He also said it would need some modification from the tank to the pump . Told me I need a 1-1/4 inch line going to the pump . The old line is 3/4 inch from the bottom of the tank( see #2 in the picture ).There was a 2-1/2 inch line (#2 in picture ) that look like it was used before but was changed to 3/4 inch line.( See picture. ) I am just going to plug the 3/4 inch line because I dont need it .
I took off the 3/4 inch line and the 2-1/2 inch nipple that im going to replace and reduce to a 1-1/4 inch line .I also have to find out the shaft size on the pump so he can match it up . He said I might be getting 2500-3500 psi and 60-80 ton from the cylinder .

 

[pacman]

hydraulic tank

This is the hydraulic tank . Its around 30-35 gl tank .

 

[2FatGuys]

Pacman -

Be careful how the numbers get tossed around!

Working in the mid-range of the performance estimates from your "hydraulics expert", here is what you will end up with:

70 tons of pressure @ 3000 PSI would require an almost 7 3/4" cylinder (7.708").

A 7 3/4" cylinder with a 24" travel would require moving 4.9 gallons of fluid under pressure (assuming no leaks).

To accomplish this in a 6 second cycle time (total for split and return), you would need a pump capable of moving 49 gallons / min under pressure.

From the "hydraulicspneumatics" web site:

Correctly sizing an electric motor for a hydraulic power unit is a straightforward procedure. And if load pressure and flow remain fairly constant, determining the power requirement is relatively simple by using the familiar equation:

hp = q x p / (1,714 x EM) where:
q is flow, gpm (and accounts for the pump's volumetric efficiency),
p is system pressure at full load, psi, and
EM is the pump's mechanical efficiency


For example, assume an application requires a flow of 13.7 gpm at a maximum pressure of 2,000 psi, and with a pump efficiency of 0.80. From the equation above:
hp = 13.7 x 2,000 / (1,714 x 0.80)
= 20 hp.

It may seem that a gas or diesel engine as the prime mover would have the same power rating as an electric motor. However, the general rule of thumb is to specify an internal-combustion engine with a power rating 21/2 times that of an equivalent electric motor, Figure 2. This is due primarily to the fact that internal combustion engines have different torque-speed relationships than electric motors do. Examining the different torque characteristics will provide the understanding to make a choice based on solid reasoning - rather than putting faith in a rule of thumb.

So... to move the 49 gallons / min, @ 3000 psi, with an 80% efficiency pump, powered by an internal combustion engine, you would need to develop about 268 HP out of your $200 find. My guess is the pump cost to accomplish this would far exceed anyone's idea of practicality.

 

[triptester]

Pacman,

Before investing in a different pump you need to rebuild or replace the hydraulic tank. The suction line should NEVER come off the bottom of the tank because this is where dirt ,rust ,and other contaminants accumulate. A pump can be quickly destroyed by contaminants.

The dimensions you gave for the cylinder indicate that it has a 4" bore with a 48" stroke and a 2 1/2" dia. shaft. A 4" bore cylinder is only capable of producing 20 tons max. even with a 1000hp. engine driving the pump.

The pump man was right on the cost of the pump. To get a 6 second cycle time it will need a 40 gpm pump.

At 40 gpm the hoses will need to be increased to 1" I.D. for pressure and 1 1/2" for suction.

 

[blackdoggy]

Trip tester there might be right but why spend the money?? If you call up northern or any other hydraulic supply company you can order a oil suction strainer or filter assembly and just filter every thing. Your not going to have that much crud in your tank if the tank is in good condition internally and you have a good return line filter and filter-strainer breather unit which would filter your fluid as you fill your unit.

 

[pacman]

35 gmp

Likely a 12 hp engine with a 22 gpm two speed pump and a 5 inch cylinder would blow this splitter away!

The guy said it should be around 35gpm with the new pump.Thats why im changing the 3/4 inch line from the tank to 1-1/4 inch to the pump so that the pump can get all the oil it needs to get that 3500psi .
I know it might look a little beat up but the machine is well balanced . You can pic it up and pull it where ever you want it (where its level ) .I think it might be around 40-50 lbs to lift .