385 et al. Questions for the experts

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Jeff Hunt

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I just found this site through a link listed on ebay and can't believe I haven't found it before now. I have alot to say and it will be diffficult to try to keep it short and sweet, but I'll try.

I have been reading some old posts with great interest about folks souping up saws, especially the claims of increased life. I've been working on saws for the past ten years doing almost everything myself because by the time I take it somewhere to get it fixed, I could have already done it myself and thus I do.

We started out running 394s and had 6 total, 3 low-tops 3 highs. These saws ran relatively forever. The biggest problem being the plastic intake manifolds of which I've probably went through a bushel basket of them along with nearly as many needle valves. I still have 3 of these saws that run, albiet from various levels of rebuilds. Four of the 6 ran 6+ years in various levels of service without any major work. One of the other two broke a piston when almost new, re-jugged and ran it nearly 9 years. Only other bad thing I can say about them is they can be tough to start when hot when they get a little age on them and everything isn't up to snuff and that along with weight is the reason we went to smaller saws.

When the 371s came out we bought one and found out that they were junk. Re-jugged it once because it was almost new and then gave up on them when it ate the crank bearings again fairly quickly. Everything about this saw sucked. Not enough power for our use anyway.

Started using 288s at the request of the feller we had at the time and got to learn again how great the 394s are. Had five of them. Run 'em a few months, re-ring 'em. run 'em a few more and they'd generally either eat the crank bearings or the cases would be busted up too bad to justify doing anything with them. Two piece ignition is a big headache(wires) along with being a bear to work on. I have none of these saws that run now. I sold the last one I had after its re-ring.

When the 385s came out, I had very high hopes for them. Well...... I, along with everyone else I know that runs them has had big problems with them. First one I had with very low serial number had the crank bearings go after about 2 months. I didn't let it eat the cages so Husky paid my saw guy to rebuild it completely, even a new crank since he busted it with the nose off with the spreader. This saw just ate the bearings a couple of weeks ago and lasted far longer on the rebuild than new. Second one I bought lasted about 2 months again, this time I let it grenade so I could get a new saw, and did. Husky gave me a new one which I made sure was a much higher serial number. Want to guess how long it ran before the bearings started grinding in it? Just this week it started and I took it out of service since I plan on making one good one out of the two since the newest saw's right side case is busted behind the flywheel. Other problems with these saws is that the air filter cover will weld itself to the top cover of the saw. Also, the air injection does not work at all with the filter needing to be cleaned 2-3 times a week compared once or twice a month for the 394s. I also hate those see-through tanks which aren't see-through for long and crack if you drop a feather on them. Hundred bucks a pop and I've already had to buy two, and I've never had to buy a tank for any saw except for a 2077 that got run over by the pickup. I also have along with the 2077, a 2071, and a 268.

Basically what I would like to know is how can these saws be souped up to be made to run as much better as some claim and hold up any time at all, let alone longer than a stock one? I am very interested, but I am also skeptical. From my experience with crank bearing failures, it seems any kind of work like this is going to have to be accompanied by replacing the bearings, probably with something much better than the factory puts in. If I can spend a couple of hundred bucks to make a 385 run like a 394 or better and last like one too, I would consider it a bargain to say the least.

My own suspicion is that the bearing problems along with the air cleaner cover welding itself to the saw would indicate a balance problem with the saw itself. Is this adressed when the work is done? The fact that the air injection in the 385s is non-functional may also be a factor as far as longevity is concerned. I try to keep my saws very clean and most look quite good for their age. It is difficult to keep a saw clean though when the filter gets plugged as quick as they do. I think the 288s stayed cleaner than the 385s and they didn't have it. Any suggestions on these issues?

Well so much for making it short. Any suggestions as to anything I have said here would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 
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I have been running my modified 385XP for the past 5 months just about everyday and have not had one single problem with it so far,I think it was the best move I ever made to get the saw modified.Brian is right opening up the muffler will definetly keep the operating temps lower than just running it with the original baffled muffler also you will notice a bit of increase in power as well..If your thinking about having a saw modified by all means stop thinking an do it you will not be sorry you did just ask anyone here who has or runs a mod saw from on of our builders here..Dan Henry (Dozerdan),Dennis Greffard (Dennis),Ken Dunn (Kdhotsaw),or any of the others they all do great work..and are great people to deal with.

Later Rob.
 
Jeff,

Hi and welcome.

I've also expressed some concern in the past here about the longevity of the bottom ends on hopped-up saws.  "Jokers" and I have discussed it on at least one occasion here that comes to mind (though I can't find it in a quick search just now), and I believe we've talked about it on another forum as well.  Russ has provided interesting support for his position, but I still have some reservation...

I was wondering about those see-through handles, too.  Thanks for the input.

Glen
 
Jeff, Welcome to AS!!

When you are talking about your "crank bearing" failures, are you referring to side bearings or rod bearings? Rod bearing failures were common in the old 371's and 385's... early side bearing failures are 90% related to bad fuel mix, unless installed incorrectly.

The 394's are very good saws, but the 288's are indestructible. I do agree the 2 peice ignition is a pain, but the saw itself lasts forever when maintained. I have highlead crews that still beat up the same 3 every day.

385's had early crank failures for awhile as well as intake boot problems in cold weather. That has pretty much been remedied. Your top cover "welding" itself to the bottom cover, is a result of heat, as Brian has said. Open them more often, clean the filters daily if necessary. I have found the Air Injection in both the 372 and 385 to be quite good....is it possible that the 385s you have don't have the correct plug(for lack of the correct word) by the flywheel?? There are two of them...one for summer, one for winter.

As far as modifications go the 385s are fantastic candidates. The saw will run stronger than a 394, will run cooler, and will last longer(than stock). By far, the largest portion of your modification gains(and heat release) will come from modifying the muffler, and then the engine mods will pick up the rest.
 
With regards to saw modification, I dont think it proper to view it as detrimental to the longevity of a modern day saw.
Stock saws are severely retarded, congested and hampered due to arbitrary regulations. So in view of that, it is easy to fathom that a cooler running saw is going to last longer. Mods dont have to equate higher rpm, but it does mean more torque and h.p.
A well kept stock saw may last longer in the hands of someone who genuinely knows how to look after one, more so than a modified saw in the hands of a hammerfisted individual.
32: 1 at factory rpm is ok, while a lean setting at 50:1 spells heat. Inversely 50:1 with a rich setting may as well be 20:1, creating carbon, smoke and exhaust skirt damage, especially after the saw has been reajusted.
The truth of the matter is that someone with a stock 029 that knows what they are doing can cut circles around someone with a modifide 357, and that is where the big difference is.
This is just my take on saws as a general opinion, because my middle name is " Chainsaw", and I just so happen to know everything, and why wouldn't I?
Lil' Leroy
 
I recognize bullsh!t when I see it. Who in their right mind would buy so many saws of the same brand if they had the trouble this guy alledges? Or has he had similar results with Stihl or any other reputable brand and he just got a hair up his a$$ about Husky today? I also find it interesting that I haven`t cracked any of the semi-transparent tanks and I even had one exit the truck onto asphalt at about 40mph, lucky there wasn`t any feathers around I guess. The only damage incurred from that little faux pas was the plastic finned cover over the muffler on an 019T busted in a couple of places but I can`t even complain about that under the circumstances.

Russ
 
Hey Doug ya Putz, whats the big idea trying to tarnish my " pure as the driven snow", reputation with such a picture posing with a piss tank as Robert?
John
 
The Jonsered 2186s are holding up well in the hardwoods in East Central Illinois. I believe they are about the same animal as the 385s, aren't they?

Most of them run on 40 to 1. These guys know how to sharpen, and they keep after the air filters.
 
I got an 066 stihl, had it 3 years now and only expensive part I have replaced is the airfilter a couple times, and plenty of bars, chains, and sprockets.
Use it everyday, pulling 28" bar in hardwoods.

Never been in the carb. yet.
 
If I was having that many problems with 385's I would go out an buy 2 dozen "Wild Thing's" from Fish. I would avoid the camo Poulans because loggers such as those in Doug's post lose them too often.
 
Okey doke.

Well I guess the post wasn't too long to get this many responses. First, to address those that are worth replying to.

All previous saws were always set to factory specs with a tach after being broke in and always used 50:1 , genuine Husky oil. Since the first 385 bit the dust, I've went to 500 rpm less than stock and going to about 35-40:1(a little less scientific since using partial bottles). It has not meant much as you can see. Most of what is suggested what I am doing wrong are decent suggestions and I take them all seriously, but I would think that I would have had the same problems with the 394s which I still don't have with nearly 10 year old saws compared to new ones.

Yes, I am refering to the side bearings. I have never, ever, had a crank failure, which I would think to go hand in hand with the side bearings if rpms or mix ratio would be the problem???? It is always the bearing cage that goes through the saw and wipes out the piston and usually the jug also. :(

I , as I would think most people in the logging business, don't have alot of extra time to piss away countless hours in pissing matches with a cathode ray tube. I started this post in earnest with the hopes that I could get suggestions to correct anything I may be doing wrong, to hear if others are having similar experiences and to try to decide for myself if having a saw gone through will be worth it to me. To feel folks out on the subject so-to-speak. Spending $150-300 to do what is claimed is chicken feed to me if it meets expectations, but I don't throw money down a rat hole, either. I have no ego issues when it comes to correcting problems if it is something I am doing wrong and would be glad to hear it. I am not running the saws myself so I have no control over that, but again, I would think if that were the problem I would have it with all saws. I got my dealer to admit to me that Husky replaced almost every single one of the first several 385s he sold for exactly the same problems that I have had, so I would tend to think it is the saw and not me or employees. I have heard they got a bad batch of bearings, and I just recently heard that some of the cases may not have been machined completely up to specs, but admit that is just heresay.


As to the 288 vs. 394 issue. I believe these saws use the same crankshaft and side bearings. The 394 uses a 2 ring piston, the 288 uses a single ring. The 394 uses single piece ignition, the 288 two piece and that wire that constantly needs replacing. Another thing I forgot to mention about the 288 is the crappy throttle lever that gradually gives less total throttle as the carb post wears through the lever. Also, I could replace about 20 rear side springs on a 394 in the time it takes me to do one on a 288. The 394 crankcases are far less prone to breakage than the 288 in my experience. I certainly respect your opinion on which saw is better, just wondering why you would think the 288 is the better of the two. I will say that the 288 doesn't have the intake/needle valve/hot start problems the 394s have. I agree that the 288s were a great saw in their day, especially compared to the Homelites most guys around here were running then(including us).


As to the air cleaner cover welding itself to the lid. IMO it is caused due to heat created due to chafing from vibration and not just general heat off the saw I don't notice any signs of high heat anywhere else on the saw, especially near the jug or muffler where I would expect it. This is the only part of the saw that isn't battoned down with screws that would prevent chafing and that is why I think that is what causes it. I could be wrong -- honestly don't know???? I do know this happens on saws as my 394s are almost worn all the way through the top cover where the air cleaner cover touches it. They don't stick, probably because it happens much slower. Funny thing is, my old man cornered a Husky rep at a show and complained about it, among other things. The rep, who had "never heard of such a thing" took a brand new 385 and made a few cuts with it and proceeded to take off the cover to show him how wrong he was. Anybody care to guess what happened next? I wish I had been there.

What do you mean by "plug" for the air injection? I really am at a loss as to why the air injection doesn't work well if at all. I never had the problem with the 371, and they are very similar saws and may use the same scoop, but am not sure as I don't have a parts breakdown on the 385 yet. I also think that not being able to keep the filter clean is a big factor as to why these saws aren't holding up, also.

I don't know how many of you have ever logged in the kind of terrain, timber, and under the state government we do, but if you did, I am certain you would have a lot different outlook on the life of saws that some of you do. When I put a new saw into service, I don't expect it to run 20 years with no problems. As a matter-of-fact, If I could run one 8-10 months without doing anything to it and throw it away I would be satisfied. Saws get busted up. Saws are run by folks that don't have PhDs. A saw that cost $800 is mass produced and not fitted to .0000001 of an mm, and on and on. I pretty much listed a synopsis of the history of my experience of "running" saws for the past 10 years. I don't consider these monumental problems considering they are spread out over that period of time. I am just disappointed in how the 385s hold up compared to 394s and even the 288s. Our primary saws are run 8 hours a day, with the bar sunk into a hardwood trunk or limb a very high percentage of the time. We're not trimming suburban power lines or cutting 12" pine planted neatly in rows on flat ground. Board feet cut would be a better but not perfect yardstick to measure saw life, but would be nearly impossible to guesstimate for me. Most of the guys I know who work in this biz get far less life than we get out of a saw no matter what brand it is. As a matter of fact, I would say multiple times longer up until the 385s. I do like to get the most out of a saw, and up until recently I felt that I was.


As to the rest of you a$$eholes:

Anyone who so easily questions the veracity of a person statements on virtually no information to back it up pretty much reveals their own lack of character. Most people that have called me a liar have lived to regret it and I take it very personally as I try hard to make sure everything I say or write is the truth. Someone who takes calling someone a bullsh!tter so lightly pretty much confirms that they are the one full of sh!t by how lightly they take the value of assaulting another's character. So "I have a potty mouth". I don't give a rat's a$$ about any Stihl/Husky debate. A saw to me is a tool to make money and not much more. I am not that devoid in the pants that I have to have a biggest and "bestest" saw to make me feel like a man. The last Stihl we had (an 056 ) met a tragic end with a 12# sledge hammer after my old man spiked it on the concrete. My dealer sells both brands and since he logs himself has used both brands. I take his word for which is better, not because I think he has the word of God, only because what everyone else says is just talk also and none have more credibilty to me and almost all have less. I would imagine that both brands are fairly equal in quality overall since they are priced similarly and neither company is out of business, at least not yet. If someone, who I had enough confidence in could convince me that the Stihls were significantly better I would change brands and at times I have seriously considered it on my own. Right now that hasn't happened and I have a mountain of parts that won't fit on a single saw Stihl or any other company except Electrolux makes.

As to the cracks about being from WVa or being retarded. I find that quite funny. Would any of you geniuses care to compare SAT scores, or taken the SAT or even know what the SAT is? Unfortunately, I am not a native West Virginian, either. Again, "I have a potty mouth".

I look at posting here as coming into an establishment that I have never been to before and conversing with the patrons. Some folks are welcoming and some folks instantly want to prove what an a$$hole they are. Unfortunately, there are more folks here of the latter type than I would have hoped. If some of you folks treat real people, especially those you just met the way you treat people on the internet, it might explain why you have counless hours to whittle away in pissing matches with people in an electronic box.
 
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Yeah, I`m an a$$hole, what of it? LOL.

There is some common or systemic link to the trouble you are having and when you describe it as being so vast yet you keep buying Huskies it seems incredible. Will I live to regret saying this to you? Are you going to come up to New York and kick my a$$ or something? Sorry if you are feeling such angst over my reply but I called it the way I saw it from your initial post. You speak of coming into an establishment, well you have, and of course you are as welcome as anyone else until any of us is thrown out by the moderator, but you don`t just walk in and start telling the patrons that their wives and girlfriends are ugly or that we the patrons must not be all that bright for making the choices we have without expecting rebuke do you? Your question did not come off so much as a question, more a statement of what POS the flagships of the Husky line are. I find it interesting and somewhat humorous that the only person who was actually shining up to you was glens. If you hang out and read here long enough you will probably know why. He is blind with Stihl loyalty and snickers like an adolescent watching a stag film when anyone indicates any displeasure with anything Elux yet touts the benefits of certain Stihls such as the ms270, 280, and 290. Wait a minute, are YOU glens? See, that is the downfall to internet forums, too many opportunities for imposters looking for trouble.

Now a few questions. Do you send the cutters out with their fuel in milk jugs, and since you brought up the SAT, how close to 1600 did you score? Did you take it before or after it was adjusted for racial demographics? Just curious to know if I`m going to measure up.

Russ
 
Welcome Jeff,

Why not have a saw modified and find out for yourself if it's worth the extra cost.Just consider it an additional investment that might be worth the expense.I really don't think the cost of 1 modified saw would put you in a pinch and depending on performance results may save you some money in the long run.

Insults are cheap and of little benefit to anyone.Get out from under the rheteric and find out first hand if a modified saw can save your business some beans.

Rick
 

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