60cc Saws the "Best" general purpose saw concept proven over time? Maybe

[Idahonative]

Removing the carb on the cs590 takes like 20 seconds. The cylinder casting is the cleanest I've ever seen! Nice flat torque curve, plenty of stock compression as well, mine pumps 180psi. It's just a simple high quality low cost saw. It's not without fault however. The saw has a plastic top handle and side plate "which some say feels cheap" spur drive sprocket, laminated bar, plus it's a bit bulky/heavy for the displacement. I'm also not a fan of the air filter, but it seems to do it's job well enough.

Agree. That's why I would never pass up a deal on a cs-600p. More power than the 590, aluminum handle, rim drive, Echo (Oregon) power match bar. The last two I bought off Ebay a few months ago cost $400 NIB to my door. Those deals come along pretty frequently, more so in the winter months it seems. That saw just can't be beat at that price. Do a simple MM and tune and it will run right there with the rest as you have proven with your 590.

Even though the 600p has a limited coil, I can't tell much difference between it and the 620p in the cut (both MM'd & tuned). For the price they can be had at, it makes modding the 600p very attractive (same with the 590). Especially for guys like you who can do a lot of the work themselves. They can be turned into one of the highest performing saws out there. Everytime Mastermind does one, he comments on just how strong they are. I've been told by another member on this site that they will "outcut a 441 all day long" and "cut right with a 461" with a 20" bar. That kind of performance in a 13 lb 4.8 oz. power head, a very reasonably priced, simple, high quality, high performance saw. I would love to see how my MMWS 600p runs against a ported 562. I think it would be close but that's just a guess.

With the money I've spent on saws, I could have bought any one I wanted. I really like the 562xp but I'm old school and would rather die than own an auto tune saw. I have no doubt I would have owned that saw by now if it wasn't for the auto tune. Who knows, maybe I'll change my mind someday but I doubt it. Everytime I read about an auto tune problem on these forums, it just reinforces the "old school" in me.

It's been mentioned many times but as far as price vs. performance goes, (IMO) the cs-590 has a lock in the 60cc class. The 590 retails for $399 at Home Depot and can be had for $360 with the military discount. There just isn't another 60cc saw that can compete with that. As your vid proves and others can attest to, do a MM and tune and it is just a heck of a saw:



P.S. - IMO, your vid may have more to do with Husky introducing the 465 than anything else. I believe it has done more to hurt the sales of Stihl and Husky's homeowner models than any other single piece of info out there on the net. Echo should have given you a cut of their huge 590 sales.

 

[svk]

Agree. That's why I would never pass up a deal on a cs-600p. More power than the 590, aluminum handle, rim drive, Echo (Oregon) power match bar. The last two I bought off Ebay a few months ago cost $400 NIB to my door. Those deals come along pretty frequently, more so in the winter months it seems. That saw just can't be beat at that price. Do a simple MM and tune and it will run right there with the rest as you have proven with your 590.

Even though the 600p has a limited coil, I can't tell much difference between it and the 620p in the cut (both MM'd & tuned). For the price they can be had at, it makes modding the 600p very attractive (same with the 590). Especially for guys like you who can do a lot of the work themselves. They can be turned into one of the highest performing saws out there. Everytime Mastermind does one, he comments on just how strong they are. I've been told by another member on this site that they will "outcut a 441 all day long" and "cut right with a 461" with a 20" bar. That kind of performance in a 13 lb 4.8 oz. power head, a very reasonably priced, simple, high quality, high performance saw. I would love to see how my MMWS 600p runs against a ported 562. I think it would be close but that's just a guess.

With the money I've spent on saws, I could have bought any one I wanted. I really like the 562xp but I'm old school and would rather die than own an auto tune saw. I have no doubt I would have owned that saw by now if it wasn't for the auto tune. Who knows, maybe I'll change my mind someday but I doubt it. Everytime I read about an auto tune problem on these forums, it just reinforces the "old school" in me.

It's been mentioned many times but as far as price vs. performance goes, (IMO) the cs-590 has a lock in the 60cc class. The 590 retails for $399 at Home Depot and can be had for $360 with the military discount. There just isn't another 60cc saw that can compete with that. As your vid proves and others can attest to, do a MM and tune and it is just a heck of a saw:

P.S. - IMO, your vid may have more to do with Husky introducing the 465 than anything else. I believe it has done more to hurt the sales of Stihl and Husky's homeowner models than any other single piece of info out there on the net.

I'd really like to try a 600 and 620 but I've never even seen one up here.

 

[SawTroll]

Not really other than the fact that my 555 (doesn't have stuffers) is the smoothest saw I have ever run..by far. Even smoother than the 562 (has stuffers). I think the tilted cylinder has more to do with the volume of the muffler and also the exhaust/transfer lay out than it does vibration. These new strato designs really seem to want heat in the transfers.

The long stroke of those engines (for the cc size), combined with the wish to keep the saws low likely has something to do with tilted cylinders as well. Anyway, it isn't a new idea.

 

[Idahonative]

I'd really like to try a 600 and 620 but I've never even seen one up here.

Wow, I didn't know that. Echo's have been around here since the mid 70's.

 

[Chris-PA]

I'm old school and would rather die than own an auto tune saw.

It is just a chainsaw, perhaps some perspective is in order.

 

[SawTroll]

Agree. That's why I would never pass up a deal on a cs-600p. More power than the 590, aluminum handle, rim drive, Echo (Oregon) power match bar. .

Where they issue power specs, Echo rates the 590, 600, 605 and 610 at exactly the same power, 3.0 kW/4.08 hp. They list the 620 at 3.32 kW/4.52 hp.

http://www.echotools.com/products/category/

 

[svk]

Wow, I didn't know that. Echo's have been around here since the mid 70's.

There are Echo here just not much for pro saws.

 

[Idahonative]

It is just a chainsaw, perhaps some perspective is in order.

Ok:

"I'd rather have my left arm cut off with a 562xp (with a dull chain) than to own an auto tune chainsaw."

 

[svk]

Where they issue power specs, Echo rates the 590, 600, 605 and 610 at exactly the same power, 3.0 kW/4.08 hp. They list the 620 at 3.32 kW/4.52 hp.

http://www.echotools.com/products/category/

I've seen the 590 rated at 3.8 here. Maybe a difference overseas?

 

[Idahonative]

Where they issue power specs, Echo rates the 590, 600, 605 and 610 at exactly the same power, 3.0 kW/4.08 hp. They list the 620 at 3.32 kW/4.52 hp.

http://www.echotools.com/products/category/

Hmmm...never heard you say that before Troll. If you haven't noticed, people are waking up to the fact that published hp numbers are mostly bs.

 

[SawTroll]

.... I really like the 562xp but I'm old school and would rather die than own an auto tune saw. I have no doubt I would have owned that saw by now if it wasn't for the auto tune. Who knows, maybe I'll change my mind someday but I doubt it. Everytime I read about an auto tune problem on these forums, it just reinforces the "old school" in me.

.... .

I suspect it is limited how much longer the EPA will let Echo continue doing what they do (neither using "strato" or Autotune"). What has saved the brand from the EPA so far likely is closely connected to the low power output of most of the saws. A low power output means less pollution.

Most "Autotune problems" you read about has nothing to do with the Autotune itself, but with the carbs. Operator errors often are involved as well.

People tend to blame the Autotune for normal chainsaw issues, that has nothing to do with the Autotune.

 

[weimedog]

P.S. - IMO, your vid may have more to do with Husky introducing the 465 than anything else. I believe it has done more to hurt the sales of Stihl and Husky's homeowner models than any other single piece of info out there on the net. Echo should have given you a cut of their huge 590 sales.

What?

Explain this please. And why would you post this if I'm reading it correctly. What is your definition of win?

My posting this thread was about 60cc saws generically... the 465 is yet another entry into that price point and market place. Almost sounds like you are defensive to the point of desperation pushing so hard against the 465 and for a 590, interesting as it might be. I don't particularly care which one does best relative the others..and the postings here really don't have that much impact on the overall market place. We talk to each other. That's about it. Fact is all these saws work really well. The 465 is interesting to me... Andy got my attention as now I'm interested in the 590 because of his endorsement. If all I heard was yours....I would simply have ignored it and saw it for what it was. And the fact you are still here means you are paying attention to ours.... trying to spam it doesn't help your position, conversation does. My bet? The 455/465 & Home owner Stihl's sell more than all the Echo's combined...

 

[SawTroll]

I've seen the 590 rated at 3.8 here. Maybe a difference overseas?

What I posted is a link to is their "global" site. There may of course be additional EPA related restrictions on US saws, I don't really know. Also I wonder where you have seen that number, as Echo (usually) don't list the power outputs in North America?

Another possibility is that the model may have been upgraded/uprated at some time?

 

[SawTroll]

What?

Explain this please. And why would you post this if I'm reading it correctly. What is your definition of win?

I didn't understand it either...

 

[Big Block]

 

[weimedog]

Yup its turning the corner unfortunately because there are a few who want it to. BUT there are plenty of others topics on arboristsite to pay attention to.. And thankfully I have other things in my life to focus on...

 

[weimedog]

Dolmar has entered the AutoTune fray with the PS-6100 and if I understand correctly there are several more to come over the next couple of years. Obviously that fits into the 60cc discussion. Echo will eventually have to follow the class leaders. I'm certain they will do a good job as they have been around a while. I actually have an old metal one a guy gave me from the 1980's hoping to have time to get it running this year.

 

[SawTroll]

Hmmm...never heard you say that before Troll. If you haven't noticed, people are waking up to the fact that published hp numbers are mostly bs.

That is totally wrong, as they mostly are actual measured numbers from a calibrated and approved (or whatever it is called) dyno. At least that is the case in Europe, and I can't imagine it is much different in Japan or the US. The days of the calculated SAE Gross hp is long gone.

In addition, independant dyno testing of chainsaws have been going on for decades in Germany (DLG and KWF), and I have seen most of the results from the last couple of decades. The results most often confirm the factory power specs to the closest .1 kW (but not always at the exact rpm that the specs say), while some tests show a .1 kW deviation from the specs (+/-). Only a couple of results have showed a .2 kW deviation, and there have been no larger ones.

However, there will always be variations from saw to saw (there is with all engines), and the numbers are just a snapshot of the highest point of the "power curve". By no means perfect - but it does give you a pretty good idea about what to expect.

 

[CoreyB]

Most "Autotune problems" you read about has nothing to do with the Autotune itself, but with the carbs. Operator errors often are involved as well.

People tend to blame the Autotune for normal chainsaw issues, that has nothing to do with the Autotune.

I would think you would share this on all the 562 problem threads as well as the 555. There seems to be at least one thread a week on those with major problems.
I thought the point of Autotune was to make the saw more simple for the operation of the saw. Why is it such a problem for people to operate it properly?

 

[weimedog]

I would think you would share this on all the 562 problem threads as well as the 555. There seems to be at least one thread a week on those with major problems.
I thought the point of Autotune was to make the saw more simple for the operation of the saw. Why is it such a problem for people to operate it properly?

The first generation auto tunes were different than the conventional choke/carb saws so there was a learning curve both for the manufacturer and the customers. Two converging lines....the development of the products / interfaces and folks learning how to use them. Those with 550/562's now have learned not to choke them as much or as often and expect that from their saws with Autotune...be it Husqvarna or Stihl. My 555 and 562 don't give me any issues and are actually easy to start and fun to run. And I don't have to twist a screw driver as I go from one season to the next. Actually looking forward to the 465 and its supposed more tunable autotune.

And on a derivative subject (not from your posting! ) Some times I wonder if some of the Autotune "hate" on places like this comes from those who need to diminish that technology as they have nothing comparable. Husqvarna, Stihl, and Dolmar all have gone through the first generation of that technology and are well into the second generation. Way ahead of those companies who have ne experience with that technology in the customer base. Walbro will sell to any saw builder and help them assimilate I'm sure, but how can a dealer or company recover credibility if their minions spend so much time and energy tearing apart the validity of a technology they eventually will have to adopt? Not a good strategy.

As far as thread's I'm not hearing or seeing many issues with the current generation of 555/562's (2014 and later). There have been a whole series of updates since they were introduced, and more are on the way. A natural progression of a product. And one of my "hobby interests" have been taking the early 562's and upgrading them with a few mods to the latest versions. Husqvarna has made that pretty easy to do. So yes I'm really interested in the 465 and even more so in the next iteration of 562 I know will happen...its just what Husqvarna has done over the years. Steady product growth and evolution. Also want to learn the Dolmar PS-6100, because I'm not as "brand" dependent as most and they too are both an interesting company and interesting saws to me... There is a lot out there on the New Stihl's so I stay with the "under dogs" like Dolmars PS-6100's, Husqvarna 555's, and now 465's.... for now. Not finished with my old style Stihl's just yet...therefore understand the tendency for some to be less than enthusiastic with these new Strato & Autotune type saws...

(Have to admit the 555 was the beginning of me accepting but the 562's I built sealed it for me..really like those saws)