661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

[rogue60]

 

[Moparmyway]

I dont think this is all for nothing, there is some valuable info here if you know what you are looking at.

 

[SAWMIKAZE]

I dont think this is all for nothing, there is some valuable info here if you know what you are looking at.

One of you guys is gonna have to point out what i need to look at , i have ADD i cant read that long..ive seen oils affect cut times by 1 or 2 seconds and 20 degree changes in bar temps..im tryin to hang in.

 

[tree monkey]

1 second in a race is a big deal

 

[Moparmyway]

To add more perspective to what tree monkey just said, chains that are 1-2 tenths off are culled for firewood duties

 

[mdavlee]

To add more perspective to what tree monkey just said, chains that are 1-2 tenths off are culled for firewood duties

Or practice chains.

 

[bwalker]

Kinda like this thread..........

Zing!..........

Your still reading it..

 

[Jon1212]

Your still reading it..

Well, to be accurate, the page I posted on was the second page I read. I guess I'm easily bored.

 

[Trx250r180]

Got any doughnuts left Jon ?

 

[Jon1212]

Got any doughnuts left Jon ?

Maybe?

 

[big t double]

does that doughnut have fcking bacon on it?!?! Im gonna need your doughnut hookup.

 

[abramj]

Moving on to 36” (different logs) these are 7pin based on my 7 vs 8 pin test with 36” bar.

36 can warm up cut 24.3



36 can warm and ready – 23.6 21.1 I know the first cut was heavy pressure and I think the 2nd one I was getting tired of doing max pressure so I don’t think I was putting as much force on it. Saw was warm and ready as I did a warm up cut.



36 tsum warm up 23.3 so about 1 sec faster than 36 can



36 tsu 19.4 19.4 19.4 1st and 2nd cut natural pressure 3rd cut max pressure.



Ok taking all this data into consideration. Including the data from the other day.


Tsumura - Seems the tsumura doesn’t care much if it’s 7 or 8 pin on the 28 and doesn’t seem to care much if it’s natural pressure up to max pressure. The warm cuts with natural and max pressure were all 19s. This seems to hold true with the 36” bar on a different log. Granted I only did 7pin stuff.


Cannon – This bar is picky..


- You have to tension it just right. I think it’s VERY easy it get it too tight. The tsumura is far more forgiving. Obviously it has to do with the wide nose on the cannon.

- It doesn’t care for light pressure and it doesn’t care for max pressure.

- The bar seems to thrive on chain speed. Given how the times vary with different pressure, seems pretty fcking indicative that the wide nose has some sort of effect on torque.


So I think I’ll test my theory and try for natural pressure on the cannon with 7 and 8pin vs 8pin tsumura natural on 28”. Also do the 36” again natural on both. Also I think when I test 404 on the 28’s that stuff is pretty much self feeding so it would be highly interesting if natural pressure holds true or the extra torque the 404 requires shows the cannon for what it’s for….increases chain speed and depends on that and reduces torque. Anyway at this point I’m just curious if I can make it faster than the tsumura. I wouldn’t use it for the oil test. It’s too sensitive to pressure…thus inconsistent. Furthermore it’s easy to screw up the tension. But it is interesting to me as it seems to have the capability to be a racing bar. Maybe I”ll try 36” RSLF as well …with an 8pin.


OIL TEST –


So at this point it’s 28 tsumura with RD3 carbide chain 8pin figure the carbide will be easy to sell, won’t dull, and will provide a little more resistance vs RS. Ie. Take longer…which is fine. I ordered some and will get it on Thursday I hope and evaluate it.

Or

28 tsumura with 404 RS. Saw still has the power to pull this stuff…30 is pushing it. Your talking 83dl vs 91dl. Anyway 404 7 sprocket is right in the middle IIRC of the 7 3/8 and 8 3/8. Provides enough resistance that you get a nice self feed from natural pressure. It should be some what easy to sell, but I’ll have to remake it into custom lengths.

OR

28 total super bar with 28” RS chains. Just don’t know if this chain provides enough resistance. The .050 would be nice for resell. Total is a solid bar and runs same speed as tsumura well just a touch slower. Probably due to the heat dissipation of the cut outs on the light bar.


few days later ...


i did the 36" cuts with natural pressure.

36 tsumura = 19s nat pressure
36 can = 22.5 then 25.1 lol nat pressure cut1 22.5, then I must of lightened up or something...I honestly don't know! cuz i got 25.1 lol

36 tsumura again just to test it ...19.7

ok trying 3/8 full skip

36 tsumura with full skip 3/8 7pin - 28s nat pressure
36 tsumura with full skip 3/8 8 pin - 26s nat pressure
36 cannon with full skip 3/8 8 pin 25s finally bar won. 8pin with wide nose and a full skip chain = a lot of chain speed.


so what does all this sh*t mean? best I can figure...

the wide tip, Basically creates some sort of different gearing. Which..

1. makes the bar depend on chain speed more or the new gearing creates more chain speed.

2. must reduce torque or something cuz it's very inconsistent if your pressure is mildly inconsistent. Just don't know how else to describe it. The Tsumura doesn't seem to give a fck. Just pumps out the same times no matter what. Cannon is all over the place. AND I know this wasn't true of the narrow tip!!! So it's just that fcking wide tip.

All that said about the wide tip - I still like it a ton. I just love how it cuts....i dunno just something about it. BUT it's just not consistent for this test.

I don't know if you have been watching the show numbers or if you just think this way, but I gotta say i like your style. [emoji106]

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

 

[redbull660]

at the playground ...




well it took a lot longer than I thought it would. And I didn't even finish!

Stihl ultra 50:1 and 45:1 done
R50 - 50:1, 45:1, 40:1, 32:1 done
HP2 - 50:1 , 45:1, 40:1 , 32:1 done

working on the vids now....results etc. Will go back tomorrow to do K2 and 2R.

Liking the Hp2. Didn't care for 50:1 in any of them. So probably won't do 50:1 in k2 or 2R.

 

[big t double]

Nice trunk bomb

 

[bwalker]

at the playground ...




well it took a lot longer than I thought it would. And I didn't even finish!

Stihl ultra 50:1 and 45:1 done
R50 - 50:1, 45:1, 40:1, 32:1 done
HP2 - 50:1 , 45:1, 40:1 , 32:1 done

working on the vids now....results etc. Will go back tomorrow to do K2 and 2R.

Liking the Hp2. Didn't care for 50:1 in any of them. So probably won't do 50:1 in k2 or 2R.

What happened with the 50:1 tests?

 

[Jon1212]

does that doughnut have fcking bacon on it?!?! Im gonna need your doughnut hookup.

Yes. Maple and Bacon between the Rasberry, and Cookies& Cream doughnuts. Ask @Four Paws how good they are? I brought some to his place in Idaho, for him and his family.

 

[Arborisjedi]

I have a gl4500-m that I just removed the base gasket from I've tuned and run a tank of fuel doing cuts definitely has more torque. It says on it to run 25:1 I'm just wondering if I can run 32:1? I'm more then happy to run more oil then spec in newer or ported saw. Wanna know if I can run less oil then spec when it's 25:1.
Here a pic of the saw

 

[bwalker]

View attachment 461708 I have a gl4500-m that I just removed the base gasket from I've tuned and run a tank of fuel doing cuts definitely has more torque. It says on it to run 25:1 I'm just wondering if I can run 32:1? I'm more then happy to run more oil then spec in newer or ported saw. Wanna know if I can run less oil then spec when it's 25:1.
Here a pic of the saw

32:1 with a good air cooled oil will be fine. However, if you are worried about 25:1 wouldn't hurt anything either.

 

[redbull660]

don't have much time to explain results. I have to get out there before it rains and do k2 and 2r


Stihl 661 muffler modded. BP 91 octane ethanol free, 28" tsumura, .404 RS chain new chain per ratio. Stihl orange bar oil if that makes a difference to ya. Cleaned air filter and topped off gas and oil before start of each test. Starting temp of the saw before each test was ~225 F. Temps didn't really change much at all so don't really matter.

order of cuts are as shown.

log 1 stayed good/same until 2nd cut in hp2 40:1. I cut into a cut I did earlier in the log before I decided to save it.

log 2 is same through ultra and r50. then I cut it some and started hp2. So you can't compare the hp2 log 2 times with the others.

log 3 - changes. it was just meant to try and increase the temps. Some of the cuts from ratio to ratio can be looked at...gotta get the video up. But mainly it's to see how hot i could get the saw...which didn't work. and to see if the cuts per ratio would be close to each other.

ultra 50:1 - saw runs nice but times go to hell after the first cut. don't understand it exactly (have ideas why) but I don't care.

ultra 45:1 - this was the ratio I would run in the 660's and 361. I ran 50:1 and tried this and just liked it better. Last time I just tested 50:1 and 40:1. 40:1 did worse than 50:1. I've tried 40:1 didn't care for it. @maulhead didn't have good results with it. If your going to run ultra I would suggest 45:1. I have a number of years running 50:1 and 45:1 and I'd take 45:1 over it every time in the 361 461 660 or now 661.


R50 - 32:1 - is the winner out of ratios tested. However I think 32:! is still a little heavy. After multi cuts in log 3, you can see in the video the saw struggles. Maybe the high flash burn off point... the oil can't burn off and get out of the way for the new stuff coming into the jug? I dunno for sure, I don't care either. 40:1 and 45:1 ran good as well. 50:1 seemed like the saw screamed and lacked power? Kinda like 50:1 ultra. I can't stand the smell of this sh*t. But I'll run 32:1 against the other winners.

other winners - ultra 45:1 is obviously going to lose and I don't care to spend the time testing it. It takes a lot of time to cut with the new stuff get it into the saw and change gas and chain etc. It's pointless. If you like ultra - great. Like 50:1..great I don't care. I would say to consider trying 45:1. Hard to believe it makes that big of a difference but the logs were good. Sorry.

Hp2 - 32:1 again won. and again I think the saw felt a little sluggish. But it was much better than R50 32:1 in feel. This hp2 stuff ran very very nicely. I would like to test this stuff again with 32: 36 and 40:1. Little to no smell on this stuff. Out of the 3 the hp2 ran the nicest for sure. I think it ran nice at 32: 40 and 45. again 50:1 seemed "screamy" and lacking power so I didn't do the log 2 cuts. Could just tell right away. 50:1..ok but 32 40 45 better for sure.

Don't read into these to much yet. Still have to test k2 and 2r which have progressively lower viscosities. They may destroy the likes of hp2 and r50. Who knows.

Anyway...

Going to go test K2 and 2R and put those winners up against 32:1 hp2 and 32:1 r50. Later

 

[Andyshine77]

Hp2 - 32:1 again won. and again I think the saw felt a little sluggish. But it was much better than R50 32:1 in feel. This hp2 stuff ran very very nicely. I would like to test this stuff again with 32: 36 and 40:1. Little to no smell on this stuff. Out of the 3 the hp2 ran the nicest for sure. I think it ran nice at 32: 40 and 45. again 50:1 seemed "screamy" and lacking power so I didn't do the log 2 cuts. Could just tell right away. 50:1..ok but 32 40 45 better for sure.

Felt sluggish, but the times said otherwise. Perception is just that. The Times are all so close they mean nothing IMHO. Run the oil you want at the ratio you want and go cut wood.

Running the saw on different days will have it's effect on the results as well, but I'll likely read the results anyway.

Nonetheless thanks for the honest results.