a good climber??

[(WLL)]

Around here, a good climber is some-one who gets a tree down fast without breaking the crew, himself or property.

The faster the better and the more you'll pay them.

A good climber will get around a tree fast, agile, know his cuts and the way timber behaves. will be able to turn it, land it butt first or flat or tip first.

In my time I have had many climbers, but at the end of the day I have seen great climbers with crap saw and rigging skills .... and when 90% of what you do are TD's you need those skills. So not many fall into the extremely good bucket .... but those that do can earn around $300 to $500 a day.

A recent article by Bill Goddard in the Arborage here explained the climbers attitude some.

They're detached from the team in their work environment.

They're psychologically pressured to perform, especially when looking at a bunch of ground crew who have their arms folded chatting.

They exert themselves continuously, even having a break is not 100% comfortable.

They're goal is to get out of that tree ASAP... aching feet/legs, sweat, continually using micro muscles for balance, wind etc all have a lot larger impact up there then when on the ground.

They generally want to call the shots but ground coaching is appreciated however in many crews rarely forthcoming.

If you are having trouble with your climber I found they're most susceptible to listen when you are in the tree with them .... get on their level.

well said Mr palm slayer

 

[(WLL)]

In my opinion the term "fast" equals recklessness. People die because the feel they have to get the job done fast. To get the brush chipped fast....to get to the next job fast.

Perhaps "Efficient" is a better word to use.

howa bout efficiently fast

 

[(WLL)]

To combat the "attitude" of some climbers I have had, All climbers or bucket guys are required to do ground work when they come out of the tree.

There is no "hero" on my crew except for the whole crew together.

good call coach did not know we were at war there is plenty of things a climber can do on the ground to keep busy but wood and mule work is out every man has and should have a specific job but there is just some jobs a climber should no participate in
heros need not apply

 

[Monk]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonseredbred
To combat the "attitude" of some climbers I have had, All climbers or bucket guys are required to do ground work when they come out of the tree.

There is no "hero" on my crew except for the whole crew together.

good call coach did not know we were at war there is plenty of things a climber can do on the ground to keep busy but wood and mule work is out every man has and should have a specific job but there is just some jobs a climber should no participate in
heros need not apply

I agree it is a pour foreman that makes a climber come down and drag brush after he just spent the day in a tree. The foreman need to have a little better collar on his ground hands and tell them to keep up with their climber. Unless there is a large trunk to remove the job should almost be doen when the climber hits the ground.

 

[pigwot]

A good climber can readily assess the situation, know the limits of every member of the team, understand the physics inherent in the tree system being worked on, encourage a steady efficient flow of work, and safely coordinate the work at hand within the range of the abilities of the team.
That may sound like malarkey. In a way maybe it is, but in other ways it is very true: How many of you have been on the ground where a speedy climber is wrecking a tree at such a rate that a tangled jungle of brush results below, slowing the ground crew and increasing the time it takes for them to clear the strike zone? The interplay between what is being accomplished 'in the tree' and what needs to happen as a result 'under the tree' is a dance...and more than feet get stepped on if one 'dancer' is moving faster than the others. When hazards exist, or technical lowering is required it is important that each and every team member leave their ego at home. A humbleness that comes from a true belief that each member of the team is equally important (a very difficult thing for a lot of climbers to hear) leads to a mutual respect of abilities and an easier exchange of information. I climb. Have I ever yelled at a groundsperson? Yes. And apologized, too. As a climber I get nowhere fast if I forget that I am helpless alone. Those on the ground are there to tie on anything I need aloft, and to guide each piece gently from the point it leaves the tree until it is safely on the ground without causing any harm to property or people below or above (namely me!). Trust comes from open communication and an understanding of what someone will do in a given situation. An experienced team can make difficult work look easy, and even on a day when everyone is stretched to the limit that mutual respect will pull a team together to get it done. Negativity can squelch the finest teamwork.

One of the saddest days I can remember was the day my groundsperson of longest standing announced he was leaving to go back to school to further his life. I wished him well, but felt the loss. We had developed a shared-knowledge such that we saw the same thing from our different perspectives. Few words needed to be exchanged. The next line was ready sometimes before I was sure just how I'd be rigging the next piece to be lowered.
Teaching is a two-way street. Always be open to learning, especially if you seem to feel you know it all already. There are still trees that can get my knees feeling a bit shaky. A healthy fear of the unknown leads to limiting risk-taking and a pattern of working that encourages others to be cautious, too.
Sorry to be so long-winded. Be careful up there.
--pigwot

 

[TheKid]

Yes Monk!!! Thank you

 

[TheKid]

Yes Monk!!! Thank you

I agree it is a pour foreman that makes a climber come down and drag brush after he just spent the day in a tree. The foreman need to have a little better collar on his ground hands and tell them to keep up with their climber. Unless there is a large trunk to remove the job should almost be doen when the climber hits the ground.

 

[beowulf343]

I agree it is a pour foreman that makes a climber come down and drag brush after he just spent the day in a tree. The foreman need to have a little better collar on his ground hands and tell them to keep up with their climber. Unless there is a large trunk to remove the job should almost be doen when the climber hits the ground.

And that is why it is so hard to keep groundies. I am the foreman and climber of my crew (two groundies and myself.) We do nothing but takedowns and loooong drags are the norm for us. During a takedown, one groundie is my roper and the other is my brush man. So when I drop a piece, one guy unties my ropes and the other start cutting (I rope pieces as large as I can get away with.) By the time they each take one load out to the road and come back, I'm ready to drop the next piece. There is no way they can keep up! So they drag out what they can but a large amount gets stacked just far enough to get it out of the way (if we have the room, of course.) Then when I'm blocking, one guy will drag brush and help with chunks while the other one ropes. But there is still brush to drag! So when I hit the ground, I'll usually drop my stem, then help them finish dragging and chipping. I honestly don't mind doing it-what am I supposed to do, stand around and watch my groundies work? It's a team effort! And my groundies appreciate this-they know I'd never ask them to do something I wouldn't do myself. I've had my same groundies for over six years now because they know I respect and appreciate them. Every other crew in the company has a groundie quit on them at least once a month and none of them have the drags my crew do!

(And don't think I suffer lazy groundies or don't work them hard-I'm the type of guy that once I get started, I don't like to stop until the job's done. And if I'm working, I'd better see my groundies working! Plenty of time to rest on the way to the next job!)

 

[Monk]

And that is why it is so hard to keep groundies. I am the foreman and climber of my crew (two groundies and myself.) We do nothing but takedowns and loooong drags are the norm for us. During a takedown, one groundie is my roper and the other is my brush man. So when I drop a piece, one guy unties my ropes and the other start cutting (I rope pieces as large as I can get away with.) By the time they each take one load out to the road and come back, I'm ready to drop the next piece. There is no way they can keep up! So they drag out what they can but a large amount gets stacked just far enough to get it out of the way (if we have the room, of course.) Then when I'm blocking, one guy will drag brush and help with chunks while the other one ropes. But there is still brush to drag! So when I hit the ground, I'll usually drop my stem, then help them finish dragging and chipping. I honestly don't mind doing it-what am I supposed to do, stand around and watch my groundies work? It's a team effort! And my groundies appreciate this-they know I'd never ask them to do something I wouldn't do myself. I've had my same groundies for over six years now because they know I respect and appreciate them. Every other crew in the company has a groundie quit on them at least once a month and none of them have the drags my crew do!

(And don't think I suffer lazy groundies or don't work them hard-I'm the type of guy that once I get started, I don't like to stop until the job's done. And if I'm working, I'd better see my groundies working! Plenty of time to rest on the way to the next job!)

I agree with you on that I am in the same postion most of the time but if someone else does the limbing for me I have them gather up their ropes or tools we don't need but I don't fell they should have to drag brush unless it was an extremely qucik take down very little effort on their part...I am also the owner so when I hit the ground I want the job to be cleaned up and done with and on to the next and I don't expect my crew to do anything I wouldn't do myself.

 

[Blinky]

...
I honestly don't mind doing it-what am I supposed to do, stand around and watch my groundies work? It's a team effort! And my groundies appreciate this-they know I'd never ask them to do something I wouldn't do myself. I've had my same groundies for over six years now because they know I respect and appreciate them. Every other crew in the company has a groundie quit on them at least once a month and none of them have the drags my crew do!

(And don't think I suffer lazy groundies or don't work them hard-I'm the type of guy that once I get started, I don't like to stop until the job's done. And if I'm working, I'd better see my groundies working! Plenty of time to rest on the way to the next job!)

That's just good, solid leadership. Work is work and everybody should be doing their part until the job is finished. I suppose it would be different if the climber was a contractor and you wanted to get'em off the clock. If you're the climber and you run the crew, you'll never gain their respect unless you're willing to work beside them and do any job you expect them to do.

It doesn't matter what business you're in, if you want to be a good leader and foreman, check your ego and work hard. People will respect and trust you.