add on furnace vs owb

[Landmark]

Installed our cb owb five or six yr ago and if I had it to do again I would do the same thing. Got no regrets. Once you owb you never go back.....

 

[brenndatomu]

Once you owb you never go back.....

I thought that was...ah, never mind, I better behave...

 

[hupte]

Sounds like your stove was a hawg and your OWB is miserly...for a OWB that is. Probably not a normal scenario for most people, OP has a Englader NC30 stove (I think), not a hawg, so...

I suppose my stove would be a "smoke dragon" type. essentially it's just a box with a chimney. non cat, non secondary combustion. and comparatively speaking the owb is more efficient. (traps smoke in the burn chamber longer/ more passages thru the water) here is a pic of a stove just like mine. this is not my stove just the same model.

thank you for pointing that out though. I always figured I burned so much wood in the stove cause I lost so much heat by opening the windows all the time cause it was too hot in the house. but I suppose, logically speaking, a more fair comparison would be the op's nc30 epa stove, to a owb gasifier.... or a smoke dragon wood stove to a classic cb... I'd say my owb is closer to a P&M owb. so its a step up from a CB or most others in the smoke dragon class (speaking efficiency only) but its still a step below the efficiency of a gasifier.

 

[Tjcole50]

Is thay chimney from Menard triple wall? Shouldn't exterior next to cedar siding be triple wall for clearance? I went to a couple website and full triple was 2400-2500! May have to research more of that. Lowering the add on furnace fur sure puts it back in the running. Now I'm looking into garn jr and adding a second lean to connected to my 6ish cord seasoned storage. Right now I have more wood availabe than I can handle by myself. I was suprised to see the garn priced the same as a portage and main. I need to do more reading on this indoor boiler and storage in an outbuilding. Some guys on another forum saying indoor+storage can be done for 1/2 price of the other choices

 

[brenndatomu]

Is thay chimney from Menard triple wall? Shouldn't exterior next to cedar siding be triple wall for clearance?

Not triple wall but class A, it is made for exactly your application, doesn't matter what the siding is as long the chimney is installed as per mfgr directions.
From what I understand class A is actually the preferred pipe for wood burning chimneys because the triple wall stuff loses too much heat, it can build creosote faster than class A, especially in an outdoor chimney, triple wall is a lil better if it runs up through the house, but class A is still the superior (and cheaper) product...not an expert, just what I have read from pros here, and on hearth.

Some guys on another forum saying indoor+storage can be done for 1/2 price of the other choices

I dunno 'bout half, depends on what you buy I guess, but could be cheaper for sure. Best setup to me would be to have the boiler in the garage to heat a workshop with the radiant heat loss off the boiler, but I know you'd hafta get that past the insurance co first. I believe there are companys out there (few) that are OK with it though

 

[firefighter938]

Is thay chimney from Menard triple wall? Shouldn't exterior next to cedar siding be triple wall for clearance? I went to a couple website and full triple was 2400-2500! May have to research more of that. Lowering the add on furnace fur sure puts it back in the running. Now I'm looking into garn jr and adding a second lean to connected to my 6ish cord seasoned storage. Right now I have more wood availabe than I can handle by myself. I was suprised to see the garn priced the same as a portage and main. I need to do more reading on this indoor boiler and storage in an outbuilding. Some guys on another forum saying indoor+storage can be done for 1/2 price of the other choices

I would like to know more about indoor wood boilers as well. I did a little research into them and compared to an indoor furnace they seem much more costly. I was looking at a tundra to put in my garage and thought that may be very economical to heat 2000sq ft

 

[Tjcole50]

I'm between a tundra/owb/indoor boilwr in building. Now I know the Chimney will be cheaper I'm looking into the furnace more. I don't have a walk out basement but big new basement windows make it easy to remove and use a temporary chute I also have room for about 3 cord of storage. The cheap side of me says use my existing chimney down there and slap a stove down there

 

[Lovin Locust]

I just purchased a Tundra from my local Menards and am looking forward to begin my install this spring. Too late in the season to begin with the install so I am going to wait until it warms up. In the mean time I am going to start adding to my stacks and stacks of wood so it's ready for next season.

 

[flotek]

My tundra. / heatmax. Heated my 2000 sq ft house today fine it never got over zero degrees in fact it was 25 below zero this morning . I would not want an owb . Neighbors hate your guts they are ugly outhouses in your yard they go through wood like a fat kid in a candy store .they cost a lot and let's face it even the dog doesn't want to go outside in the blowing snow . To me the forced air wood furnace is a much better option and radiates heat in the house directly off the unit . . Bugs dust and wood scraps are a reality sure but it's only as messy as the user operating the unit. Mark my words The owb will be the first units outlawed then where will your investment be

 

[Tjcole50]

Anyone who installed their own have a link or anything to show how to bore through a block foundation and what all pieces of liner are needed for that? Rest of the run is pretty self explanatory. Also my roof has about a 1.5 ft over hang maybe more need to measure. But can you do 45 degree angle to get out and around that eave? Rather not go through it

 

[Kevin in Ohio]

As to an outdoor burner, my back yard view is not blocked by a green outhouse bellowing smoke--I guess for me that's the tradeoff.

They don't have to be "ugly"

Or bellowing huge amounts of smoke.

 

[Tjcole50]

Shouldn't bellow with clean seasoned wood which is all I burn. My neighbors will on startup and deffinetly will on green wood

 

[brenndatomu]

Anyone who installed their own have a link or anything to show how to bore through a block foundation and what all pieces of liner are needed for that? Rest of the run is pretty self explanatory. Also my roof has about a 1.5 ft over hang maybe more need to measure. But can you do 45 degree angle to get out and around that eave? Rather not go through it

Well you could just hire a concrete cutting service to bore a nice round hole through for ya or you could do it yourself, some tool rental stores will rent you a core drill/bit. I just laid out my circle and went around the circle with a 1/4" masonry bit/hammer drill, put a hole every inch or so around the circle, inside and out. Then just break out the circle and fill the block cavity's with rip rap or rags, insulation, whatever, to be able to mortar in a nice round hole, then I slid in a 1' long section of class A pipe and mortared that in tight, inside and out. You will find it a lil cheaper to buy the individual pieces than to get the "through the wall kit" if you do it this way.
To get around the eaves get a couple 15* or 30* elbows to give you the rise/run that is needed to clear. You will need to build/make some stand offs for the wall brackets on the upper part off the pipe then, no big deal.
All OWBs that I ever seen smoke some when idling and when coming off idle too, even on dry wood, because you are smoldering the fire when on idle. That's why storage is good with boilers, no idle, very little smoke

 

[Tjcole50]

I figured you would use a clay thimble or something through the block. But you just slide the class a tight through and mortar? Doesn't sound to bad and drilling a fefew holes to break out cinder blocks doesn't sound bad either. Would rather do myself then hire

 

[brenndatomu]

You could do a thimble too...

 

[hupte]

My tundra. / heatmax. Heated my 2000 sq ft house today fine it never got over zero degrees in fact it was 25 below zero this morning . I would not want an owb . Neighbors hate your guts they are ugly outhouses in your yard they go through wood like a fat kid in a candy store.

most ppl never even notice owb's, until I point them out, then they always say "wow, that's really cool" i have never met anyone who thinks owbs are ugly. my closest neighbor actually loves the smell of smoke and often tells me he wishes he could smell the smoke from my owb, but he lives too far away. like I already stated, my owb uses the exact same amount of wood as my wood stove did (but stoves and owbs vary)

they cost a lot and let's face it even the dog doesn't want to go outside in the blowing snow.

my first prototype owb cost about 3k installed. worth every penny IMHO. I've spent longer amounts of time outside picking up wood and carrying it inside to feed the wood stove than I ever spent feeding the boiler. it takes me less than a minute to fill the owb for the night, vs, 10-30min at a time picking up wood to bring inside to feed the stove.

To me the forced air wood furnace is a much better option and radiates heat in the house directly off the unit . .

my water to air hx radiates heat into my furnace ducts, so my registers are always warm. only difference is, I can turn 3 valves and turn that heat off for the days when it gets up to 70 during the day, and 40 at night.

Bugs dust and wood scraps are a reality sure but it's only as messy as the user operating the unit.

for sure!!! I have to say I tried to keep my wood stove room as clean as possible. I swept the floor 4 times a day and I always got a nice pile of dirt, wood chips, dust, etc. plus there was a fine layer of dust/ash on everything in the house all winter long. no matter how many times I dusted.

Mark my words The owb will be the first units outlawed then where will your investment be

it will be in the same place as my guns, when my guns get outlawed, in my cold lifeless hand... or rather... my warm lifeless hand. lol. realistically, if owb's got outlawed mine would be grandfathered in.
i also heat 2 buildings, have unlimited hot water on demand, and I dry my clothes with my owb.

I wonder what the statistics are of house fires that can be traced to wood stoves/wood furnaces, vs house fires that can be traced to owb's?? that would be an interesting figure to find.

 

[Kevin in Ohio]

The thing I try to stress to people is that if your home is an energy hog before ANY wood appliance is installed, it will STILL be the same after on is in place. Btu's are Btu's whether it is wood, gas or fuel oil. Insulation is the key and have personal experience there.

Told this before but I'll repeat it here. I moved into our home farm after my grandmother passed. She always skimped on heat and had an oil furnace and kept a parlor stove going all the time. It was always chilly but she was used to it. I added an attached garage with pex in the floor(36' X 50'}. Insulated the floor and fully insulated the new construction. Put the boiler in and got it online. Used wood like crazy and upstairs was cold. Went through 28 cord that winter. House is a 2 story old farmhouse with full basement, 36' x 50' as well. I did my hot water as well. Grandma said a few rooms were insulated so I assumed so. That next year I did a COMPLETE house redo as burning that much wasn't going to happen again. Stripped the outside walls off to find NO insulation, bad windows and such. 10 inches in first floor sidewalls, 8 inches in second story sidewalls, new windows, 12 inches in ceiling, OSB, house wrap and sealed EVERY hole I could find with spray foam. I've averaged 13 cord a year for 11 years now.

Still a lot of wood but I'm doing a lot of area. House is at a constant 68- 70 degrees and garage is set at 60. I'm running the first gen Central boiler 5648 stainless OWB. Yes there are more efficient units out there but for MY situation at the time it was MY best option. I see more and more the lines being drawn between wood users and I don't see why sometimes. There are abusers on ANY kind of equipment and I try to educate people with the pros and cons. I don't know how many small indoor stoves I'd have to keep going to heat what I'm doing but I sure wouldn't want to try. As others said, No open flame in the house, no dirt,dust or waking bugs, no bringing wood in, once a day fill are the pluses for me. I put mine in a building so I haul once in the fall and all the wood needed is with 18 feet of the stove under roof so the wood AND I are dry and out of the weather. Going outside once or twice a day is done before or after work. I don't have a "fire tender" so if I work 12 hours, house is still at the desired temp.

Different situations call for different things as to what the best option would be. If I lived in town with close neighbors it would be a different setup. I am VERY fortunate as I have sources for all the wood I could ever need. hasn't always been that way but through time and building a reputation with people they actually call me to take the wood. Be it a dead take down, fencerow or blow over. Do a good job for people and keep your word and it'll come fast. We have our own woods now and have a hard time keeping up with mother nature and the bug kills.

With all the Ash dying around here guys are advertising $120/cord in the paper. Honestly though, most people are too lazy to even heat with wood anymore. Too many "other" options available now. To me, someone trying to keep warm with wood is a little less wasteful than someone having to run to town for every meal because they don't want to cook. that's okay in today's realm of thought. Abusers should be dealt with swiftly. Burning wet stuff, tires SHOULD be dealt with on a case by case level. NOT blanket everyone in at once because once they start that line of approach and have the agency there. they will not stop as they need to keep getting their paycheck.

Sorry for the long wind post but there are 2 sides to this story.

 

[JeffHK454]

As usual Kevin you make a good post.

I have a neighbor down the road that as long as I've lived here has heated with a OWB and it's smoked the entire valley up behind my house. I've seen the green wood and miscolanious garbage he shoves in that thing and it just makes me shake my head at how inconsiderate and down right stupid he is. He'll be the one getting both his and my wood burning privileges taken away.

I put a furnace in because it fit the house layout perfectly with a walkout basement and a classA flu sitting unused from a previous oil burner. I love the safety and cleanliness of a OWB with the fire and mess/bugs being in the yard but the intial investment and the wood consumption turned me off.

 

[Dogsout]

My tundra. / heatmax. Heated my 2000 sq ft house today fine it never got over zero degrees in fact it was 25 below zero this morning . I would not want an owb . Neighbors hate your guts they are ugly outhouses in your yard they go through wood like a fat kid in a candy store .they cost a lot and let's face it even the dog doesn't want to go outside in the blowing snow . To me the forced air wood furnace is a much better option and radiates heat in the house directly off the unit . . Bugs dust and wood scraps are a reality sure but it's only as messy as the user operating the unit. Mark my words The owb will be the first units outlawed then where will your investment be

I only burn wood that has seasoned for a minimum of 2 years in my OWB. A little smoke at start up and very little after that. Now if you lived across the road from me I could make that old girl put out a smoke so bad you wouldn't be able to see your hands in front of your face just for you to piss you off. You could have stated how much better your burner is in your opinion and left the OWB comments out and been better off. You just got your "I'm A ****" card stamped and verified with your dumb comments.

 

[hupte]