Am I up sheets creak ?

[Help Wanted]

Have a Jon cutter G5800 with a couple of problems. Its about 1 yr. old with about 20 hours of use. Problem # 1 chain will continue to turn after start up. Have adjusted the idle screw with no avail. #2 when applying the chain break the engine will stall. Have adjusted the H and L carb screws according to manual (1- 1/4- 1 - 3/8). Any help appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

Well, you were probably up "sheets creak" the day you decided to part with honest money for that particular saw.

But here goes- your clutch is forked.

If the engine is running the crank is turning, The clutch engages and disengages that drive to the chain via centrifugal force governed by engine RPM.
If the clutch shoes do not disengage from the clutch drum- drive is constant to the chain whenever the engine is running.
Remove the outer clutch cover plate, chain and bar- inspect the clutch- the drum should rotate freely without turning the engine over.
The clutch/clutch spring is broken or the needle bearing between clutch drum and crank is welded solid.

 

[BeatCJ]

While I think Bob is overstating things a little, his overall premise is correct, cheap saws have poor quality control.

Occam's Razor says you most likely need clutch springs, but it could be worse than that.

 

[Chevboy0167]

Sounds like clutch spring broke. Just buy an entire unit.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4046045822...obmbJTNQUOJp4FSVD6Eo6epg==|tkp:Bk9SR9jIpZ-zYw

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

While I think Bob is overstating things a little, his overall premise is correct, cheap saws have poor quality control.

Occam's Razor says you most likely need clutch springs, but it could be worse than that.

I don't think I overstated anything?
Hardly a top level model- not a good consumer model even- but when they run, they can pull a chain around a bar.

The rest was a quick "how things work" and you can see my main conclusion was broken clutch/ clutch spring or needle bearing fried- much the same as your own.

 

[Help Wanted]

Springs are intact. The clutch drum moves freely. Needle bearing's look ok.

 

[BeatCJ]

Ok, but how strong are they? If they allow the clutch "shoes" to contact the drum at 1000 rpm, you will have difficulty getting your saw to idle there.

@Bob Hedgecutter There was a chance he could have gotten an OK saw. I bet most of the clones are OK for an occasional user. 67%, 99% or so. I know which group I would fall in, so I would rather buy a used Top 2 saw and spend the money to rebuild it.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

Ok, but how strong are they? If they allow the clutch "shoes" to contact the drum at 1000 rpm, you will have difficulty getting your saw to idle there.

@Bob Hedgecutter There was a chance he could have gotten an OK saw. I bet most of the clones are OK for an occasional user. 67%, 99% or so. I know which group I would fall in, so I would rather buy a used Top 2 saw and spend the money to rebuild it.

Which is why I also said they are not a top value model- but if they are running correctly they will pull a chain around a bar.

Do I have to type everything wrapped in cotton wool and surrounded by hug emoji or what?

 

[BeatCJ]

Nope, not necessary, I can go find my asbestos underwear.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

Springs are intact. The clutch drum moves freely. Needle bearing's look ok.

well the spring must be weak as heck and is allowing the clutch shoes to permanently be in contact with the drum.
When you cay the drum moves freely- you mean independent of the clutch and crank I am guessing- so therefore it must be engaging at VERY low RPM if adjusting the idle screw is having no bearing on chain rotation and applying the brake is stalling the saw.

With bar and chain off- start the saw and try to "catch" the clutch drum. Finger friction should stop the drum from spinning yet the clutch and crank still rotate.

Chinese aftermarket clutches are well known for weak springs.

 

[Ikeholt]

Just turn your L screw out a fourth to half a turn. That should slow your idle speed to stop your chain from spinning.

 

[NSEric]

Sounds like the clutch is bad. Will the saw stall if you push the spinning chain into wood while idling?
Clutches are dirt cheap, buy a new one and try it.
When ordering parts look up 4500, 5200 or 5800 chainsaw, everything except the crank/piston/cylinder is the same on the different sizes.

 

[Help Wanted]

Had everything apart. The only thing that it noticeably worn is the pump worm gear, it is fairly difficult to turn on shaft. Ordered new one and also purchased a new clutch. Thanks everyone. Hopefully will be good to go. P.S. I do not use a saw on a regular basis. Just purchased this saw to cut up a few fallen trees in the back yard. Was not interested in purchasing a commercial type saw for a lot of $ only to use it maybe a dozen times. Did not mean to get some folks here riled up. Again thanks.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

Had everything apart. The only thing that it noticeably worn is the pump worm gear, it is fairly difficult to turn on shaft. Ordered new one and also purchased a new clutch. Thanks everyone. Hopefully will be good to go. P.S. I do not use a saw on a regular basis. Just purchased this saw to cut up a few fallen trees in the back yard. Was not interested in purchasing a commercial type saw for a lot of $ only to use it maybe a dozen times. Did not mean to get some folks here riled up. Again thanks.

Nobody is riled up yet. Just calling a shovel a spade.
I guess it could be the oil pump drive is that mushed up it is binding the crank and driving the clutch drum- but I would still look at the clutch spring pretty hard.
Did you try holding the clutch drum while the saw was idling?

 

[BeatCJ]

Sorry for your luck, but riled up is our default position.



Hopefully those parts take care of your issue.

 

[Help Wanted]

Nobody is riled up yet. Just calling a shovel a spade.
I guess it could be the oil pump drive is that mushed up it is binding the crank and driving the clutch drum- but I would still look at the clutch spring pretty hard.
Did you try holding the clutch drum while the saw was idling?

Yup. Oil pump worm gear is a little mashed up but does not appear the oil pump drive is the cause. Looks as though it has melted somewhat and deformed causing it to not spin freely on crank shaft. Did not check the clutch drum just going to replace.

 

[Gord404]

The damage to the worm will probably be a result of a dragging clutch which gets very hot

 

[Help Wanted]

Update. Installed new worm gear and clutch and looks to have solved problem somewhat, now when starting the chain will turn until I press and release trigger. Looks like the throttle on carb may be sticking.

 

[NSEric]

Do you mean starting from a cold start? That's normal.
The saw is on fast idle/part throttle when you pull the choke lever out then push the choke lever back in, to get it off fast idle you hit the gas.

 

[Help Wanted]

Do you mean starting from a cold start? That's normal.
The saw is on fast idle/part throttle when you pull the choke lever out then push the choke lever back in, to get it off fast idle you hit the gas.

Yes. Cold start. Well then, I guess all is good. Thanks