Arborists charge too much for tree work!!!!

Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
equipment

Treeco,

Removals yes I use spikes you would be stupid not to trims most of the time no it depends on the type of tree and what I have to do, if I use them I don't use them until I get up in the tree where they are out of site and if you think that hurts a tree you have been reading to many books and not spending enough time in the feild.


Wetcoast

I am banking 800 a week for truck repairs and payments a new jasper motor with a 40000 mile warrinty for my trucks was 2200 dollars I don't have to worry about that one for a whileI had enough money in one month to pay for that and make my chipper payment yeah other stuff broke that month but I had alot of time before that where nothing broke. As far as having to buy my partner out I own everything. And as far as a crew there are a couple guys that help me but nothing fulltime just me and my partnerand when we are bothing making 1500 a week so about 1100 after we put back for taxes if you cant put money back for christmas at that you way to many bills. Insurance thats my partners business if he weants he can pay for it I personally only have life.


Monk
 
"I charge 200 a day for my chipper and truck"

Rental yards in se Michigan want $200 a day for a bandit 6". Are you running a 75% off deal year round monk?
 
This is a great thread.

I believe tree work can be done at a more reasonable rate than many of us charge. Homeowners over estimate the difficulty of the work & the costs of disposal & many people are scared of chainsaws.

That said it now becomes a choice for each contractor to decide how they want to run the enterprise. Do you want a job or do you want to build a business?

I don’t believe you can build a service related business on price you will fail in the long run. People will pay for your skills & investment, build a good reputation, get a good crew that you can trust and start managing it.

Pricing work has alway been a dilemma for me, I know the hourly rates I want and normally get far more than I need when quoting. I quote on the basis of what’s this job worth. I don’t get every job but I don’t want every job. If I get a job I didn’t want I make very good money doing it.

I invest heavily in plant & renumerate staff well. I believe this is an industry in which he with the best toys wins and I need good loyal people working with me to achieve my business plan.

In general my rates are in line with other good operators I tend to make a better hourly rate due to better equipment & maintenance programs & good work ethics form a great team.

Its taken me 4 years I am still on the tools 4 days a week 1 day is for admin. I enjoy what I do my business is still growing, I could not be where I am today if I was not prepared charge out at market rates.
 
Last edited:
Sbusta,

I really appreciate your comments on the thread and on the tree service industry in general.

I love doing the work that i do. People are usually so appreciative of the work i do and they're usually mesmerized by the process I use. As i said, i climb everything, and 85% of the trees i work on are complete removals. They can't believe i'm not scared to death to be 100 ft up in a tree that's swaying 6-8 ft at the top when the wind's blowing. It makes me feel good to be able to provide a service for low-middle class families and still make a good living.

I always make sure my customers are happy when i finish and that has been my best form of advertising. Fortunately, I have not had to worry about a lack of work. Hopefully, things will continue this way. I'm only 2 years into the business, but i'm lovin' every minute.
 
some of you guys need to value yourself. $200 a day. If thats all your intention to make is buy a lawmower and strap it to the roof of your station wagon. Less risk, less expense, less equipment and could make $200 by 10am WTF???? You want to be a business man be business smart!
 
200 a day

200 is for the chipper and truck I make a minimum of 300 plus 50 for insurance and misc thats 550 a day thats 2750 on a 5 day work week if you think you and a chipper and truck are worth more than that and can get more than that, more power to you. But you better hope that somebody like me that isn't out to screw his neighbor out of everything he can doesn't move in and put you right out of business. I would love to charge someone 1500 dollars for a 100ft pine but I wouldn't be able to sleep at night just because they can't do it themselves doesn't mean I should rape them because I can. As far as growing I don't want to have more than one crew with that comes extreme amounts of overheadand trusting your companys good name to someone else and I have seen to many people lose to much by doing that I am happy with my 1000 to 1200 a week plus the 800 I put back into the company hell no major break downs and at the end of the year I can buy a new chipper with cash. You go to big to quick and then you have to charge to much plus the number of certificates you have seams to go to your head and make you think you are worth more than you are. the professor who made that test was most likely someone that couldn't hack it in the real world so they decide to write a book and make certification course in it, and you guy bought into thinking you are now a step ahead of the game.

And those of you that think spikes are for hacks you are cutting limbs out of a tree if you think that gaff mark is anything compared to that I need to get whatever you are smoking. Or wait let me guess you sanitize your chain and your pruners before every cut. I have been up a ton of trees that have been climbed with hooks many times before and they are still standing, bark has a little scar on it but don't look nothing like where a limb was removed.

Monk
 
Sorry Monk but you are really shortchanging yourself dude. I dont even bother waking up and putting on my Carharts unless I net 400 to 500, that means I have to gross a minimum of 800 and really I charge 1000 to 1200 for a full days work with crew and risk and all. Right now I am on a job taking down 100+ Douglass Fir tree's, most pullover backleaners over the house on a 45 degree slope, everything stays, no cleanup for 275 a tree and getting 4 to 5 done a day with just me and my right hand man and if one log rolles down that hill its going right into their living room through the roof. If people around here thought I was ripping them off I would have been out of buissness along time ago.

On the other hand the rent in PA is a far cry from the rent in Santa Cruz. There is no point in even waking up. You are also doing everyone a disservice by not sterilizing your tools.

Around here it is not always the cheapest bidder who gets the job, its who the client thinks is going to do the best job. Thankfully so.

Denver
 
We are all still in business for a reason. If you charge less you make less, I doubt most of us are members of the country club but still live comfortable. Do what you want just don't screw your employees.
 
And those of you that think spikes are for hacks you are cutting limbs out of a tree if you think that gaff mark is anything compared to that I need to get whatever you are smoking. Or wait let me guess you sanitize your chain and your pruners before every cut. I have been up a ton of trees that have been climbed with hooks many times before and they are still standing, bark has a little scar on it but don't look nothing like where a limb was removed.

This is another thread in and of it's self. Actually there are probably at least a dozen here already. It is difficult to respond to a subject that should be a lecture of somewhere around an hour.

The difference between the two types of wounds depends on how the tree worker makes them, and the nature of how wood responds to that wounding.

Let's start with the CODIT model. It is reaction to the wounding in 3 dimensions, plus time which is the new growth. So the loss of storage and conductive tissue does not stop with the immediate wound, but goes on to the reaction zones that make up the CODIT model. This is the discolored wood we see when cutting around old wounds.

CODIT is not active decay, but the responses to wounding and pathogenic activity. So every wound will disrupt the storage and translocation ability in the tree.

A tree with good vigor and vitality (two different measures of health, one being more genetic, the other situational) can tolerate aggressive treatments that will cause stressed trees to decline.

Trees "try" to compartmentalize the wound, but pathogens will always "try" to defeat that process. Natural selection, survival of the fittest, the strong survive longer then the weak to produce better offspring...

The biggest problem with gaffing and CODIT is that "wall 1" is the trees ability to close off it's own vascular system, which makes it the weakest wall of all 4. (new growth is the strongest, which is why we find strong hollow older trees)

With wall 1 being weaker, the reaction zones can coalesce from gaff wound to gaff wound up the trunk.

One thing I think we all agree on is that all wounding is bad for a tree in the short term. Pruning is wounding, but if employed with judgment and knowledge for the species growth habits, pruning can help a tree live longer in a landscape.

If most of what you do is cut big limbs off of the trunk, then one can argue that the stresses on the tree are similar. Large wounds without any green mass near by will probably never close, will surely decay, and often will have dieback of cambium under the wound from the lack sufficient supportive chloroplast. (normally I would say dynamic mass here, but then I would have to define dynamic and static mass in a paragraph above somewhere...Are you with me here monk, or did you stop reading after the first few sentences?)

We've all seen the big wounds with asymetrical wound wood, because the top gets the carbs from the green mass above and very little gets to the bottom of the wound. Even if proper Natural Target Pruning techniques are used, large limb removal can create hazards of decay and root dieback in the long term.

If the arborist is using the his knowledge and judgment while working, does not flush cut, tries to make all wounds as small as possible, then the physiology of the tree can adapt to the loss of the limb and subsequent wounding.

Small wounds, with nearby green mass will close up and allow the branch protection zone to wall off the connected trunk/stem wood. As another aside, groups of small proper cuts, and cause failure in the Compartmentalization process because the cambium looses the nearby transport system and cannot close the wounds up. This causes a coalescence of the wounds and often a large canker.

I'll go back to the recent threads with Jon and Jim. Wounding causes stress in the tree, landscape trees are usually stressed to begin with.

SO to once again sum it up, excessive wounding of a tree is not good tree care, that is indiscriminate wood cutting. If we are doing tree care, then we should care about what could happen to that tree.

Yes there are always exceptions to the rule, but a good practitioner of tree care should actually care about the property they are maintaining.

As Jim said, gaffing is not good for the tree. So I ask, if it is not good for the tree you are being paid to care for, why treat it in that fashion. Just because it is easier?


Lastly, I've tried to lump a lot of ideas into a short space, so if anyone whats to elaborate on a point, or ask a question on it, lets break them off into new threads.
 
low balling

I'm low balling right now as my work load has dropped off. I know I am not making enough for long term viability but something is better then nothing, or is it? I'm still wearing out my equipment after all.
I figure when things pick up my rates I will climb to the proper price point. In the mean time I tell folks now is a great time to do tree work as I have dropped my day rate from 1200 to 800 to 900 for three guys and suppoprting equiment. I pay my help very well and they have let me know they will work for less when I bidding less to keep things going.
 
I'm low balling right now as my work load has dropped off. I know I am not making enough for long term viability but something is better then nothing, or is it? I'm still wearing out my equipment after all.
I figure when things pick up my rates I will climb to the proper price point. In the mean time I tell folks now is a great time to do tree work as I have dropped my day rate from 1200 to 800 to 900 for three guys and suppoprting equiment. I pay my help very well and they have let me know they will work for less when I bidding less to keep things going.

I think many of us are doing the same in order to keep things rolling.

It is not all about competition as consumers during this time of year sem to be completely unmotivated to spend unnecessary dough.

The low price offer stimulates consumers to go forward with work they may have moth balled for march or later.
 
I bid for what I can DO the job for..

Alotta times i lose because my price will be higher due to less equipment/manpower.

I am a small outfit.What i can do in 2 days takes my competition 4-8 hours.

On the same note they cant afford to do 1 job for say 400.00 in one day.

I gave up on trying to match or beat bids.

most of the time i will ride back by and see they got screwed IMO.

They will do half the work for 20.00 dollars less.

Now i will tell you my biz is goin under but not because im a cut throat hack,but because the bigger companies are cutting there own throats in pricing so low as to make that equipment payment.

I have a friend that is a million dollar a year company.He has same issues i have just on a much larger scale.

100 ft pine for 450.00?No effin way.Even with him havin his own crane it would still be probably 700.00 at least.

For me to do it,double that.

JMO,bottom line some days is better to work for someone at crappy pay than to try to survive in this industry as an owner/operator.
 
iv not posted here yet, ive done little reading on this subject, but what i realy think is hacks charge way to much!!!
 
200 is for the chipper and truck I make a minimum of 300 plus 50 for insurance and misc thats 550 a day thats 2750 on a 5 day work week if you think you and a chipper and truck are worth more than that and can get more than that, more power to you. But you better hope that somebody like me that isn't out to screw his neighbor out of everything he can doesn't move in and put you right out of business."

"the professor who made that test was most likely someone that couldn't hack it in the real world so they decide to write a book and make certification course in it, and you guy bought into thinking you are now a step ahead of the game"

"And those of you that think spikes are for hacks you are cutting limbs out of a tree if you think that gaff mark is anything compared to that I need to get whatever you are smoking. Or wait let me guess you sanitize your chain and your pruners before every cut. I have been up a ton of trees that have been climbed with hooks many times before and they are still standing, bark has a little scar on it but don't look nothing like where a limb was removed."

Monk

My response to the first part of your post, is that we have been in business for 50 years and guys like you have never put us out of business. When I first started bidding work, I use to get frustrated when a lowballer would cut my qoute in half, My father always reasured me that these type of companies "come and go like the flowers of spring". If you want to charge $200 a day for you your truck and your chipper then thats your choice. Im just letting you know we were getting more then that in the 1960's. I dont have time to explain inflation to you, but to make this simple: the going rate in the year 2007 far higher then $200 a day.

Your second paragraph on certification is pretty ignorant. Education is the backbone for advancenment in any socioty and industry. Certification programs promote better arborists, and a better tree care industry. The "proffesors" that you are so quik to bash on; are people that have devoted there lifes to reserch and education so people out in the field have an opportunity to advance their knowledge in expertise.

Your comments on spiking residential trims' only confirms what I just stated in my last paragraph.
 
My response to the first part of your post, is that we have been in business for 50 years and guys like you have never put us out of business. When I first started bidding work, I use to get frustrated when a lowballer would cut my qoute in half, My father always reasured me that these type of companies "come and go like the flowers of spring". If you want to charge $200 a day for you your truck and your chipper then thats your choice. Im just letting you know we were getting more then that in the 1960's. I dont have time to explain inflation to you, but to make this simple: the going rate in the year 2007 far higher then $200 a day.

Your second paragraph on certification is pretty ignorant. Education is the backbone for advancenment in any socioty and industry. Certification programs promote better arborists, and a better tree care industry. The "proffesors" that you are so quik to bash on; are people that have devoted there lifes to reserch and education so people out in the field have an opportunity to advance their knowledge in expertise.

Your comments on spiking residential trims' only confirms what I just stated in my last paragraph.


Diltree

I don't know where you live but I live in urban PA and if you take home 300 a day you are making better money than 90 percent of the people around here I base my charges on that to keep my cost low because obiviously somebody isn't going to want to give you a months wages to do a tree.

The second part of your retort on certifications spoken like somebody that has a whole wall in hsi office dedicated to picture frames with certifications in them. Yes education is the backbone all I am saying is that people need to learn a little more by what they see then what they are told an age old proverb, Believe none of what you here and half of what you see. Pay attention to what was done before you and see how it worked. Don't assume what you learned in a Certification class is right most of that is theorys baed on another mans theroys that were based on another mans theroys and so the circle never ends.


As for the spikes I hope you trim better than you read I said it depends on the tree and the situation you have an 80 ft oak and the home owner wants it lowered for 500 or less I can do it but its going to be off hooks they can't afford to pay the 3000 grand you would charge them to do it with ropes. If they want to pay the money there won't be a hook mark on it. If you are like most of the "professional" arborist around here you will bid a tree like that so high you don't get it because you can't do it, Not saying that is how you are that is how they are around here. I agree spikeing a tree isn't good but it is no where near as bad as you guys like to make it sound the less damage to a tree the better.


As far as being in business the main tree company around here has been in business for over 25 years and they are hacks drop large limbs on houses big tears down the sides of trees dont trim the stubs back to where the should be and they are all certified arborist. Being in business for any amount of time doesn't mean jack to me most people don't know good work from bad.
 
What do you mean when you use the word 'lowering'?

Why would rope climbing cost six times as much as spike climbing?

Photos would be really nice if you've got them. I'd be glad to help you with sending them in if you do have some.
i think he means topping and cant do it without hooks. the price of booze went up and rope ain't cheep ether!! lol:cry:
 
lowering

If you do it wills style by the sound of it is a crew cut, I prefer to take leads out and limbs off to bring down the general height and width of the tree it was an example and my price for useing ropes would probably be about 1200-1500 for a tree of that size I can do it off of hooks in a third the time I can do it with ropes.(Iam sure that will start another bombing of sarcasm) it was just an example TreeCo I appreciate the offer for help though. I was just trying to get diltree to look at it from a different point of view and a different economy.
 
If you do it wills style by the sound of it is a crew cut, I prefer to take leads out and limbs off to bring down the general height and width of the tree it was an example and my price for useing ropes would probably be about 1200-1500 for a tree of that size I can do it off of hooks in a third the time I can do it with ropes.(Iam sure that will start another bombing of sarcasm) it was just an example TreeCo I appreciate the offer for help though. I was just trying to get diltree to look at it from a different point of view and a different economy.
poor tree!!!!!:jawdrop:
 
Diltree

I don't know where you live but I live in urban PA and if you take home 300 a day you are making better money than 90 percent of the people around here I base my charges on that to keep my cost low because obiviously somebody isn't going to want to give you a months wages to do a tree.

The second part of your retort on certifications spoken like somebody that has a whole wall in hsi office dedicated to picture frames with certifications in them. Yes education is the backbone all I am saying is that people need to learn a little more by what they see then what they are told an age old proverb, Believe none of what you here and half of what you see. Pay attention to what was done before you and see how it worked. Don't assume what you learned in a Certification class is right most of that is theorys baed on another mans theroys that were based on another mans theroys and so the circle never ends.


As for the spikes I hope you trim better than you read I said it depends on the tree and the situation you have an 80 ft oak and the home owner wants it lowered for 500 or less I can do it but its going to be off hooks they can't afford to pay the 3000 grand you would charge them to do it with ropes. If they want to pay the money there won't be a hook mark on it. If you are like most of the "professional" arborist around here you will bid a tree like that so high you don't get it because you can't do it, Not saying that is how you are that is how they are around here. I agree spikeing a tree isn't good but it is no where near as bad as you guys like to make it sound the less damage to a tree the better.


.


Monk.

I am not here to bash on you in any way, but i have a question. Now i am young and newer to the game..but what do you mean when you say hooks and lowering?

When you say lowering are you talking about a complete removal of the tree...and instead of blocking it down with ropes you use hooks???

I am just trying to understand by what you meant in your last paragraph...about the 80 ft Oak. ???
 

Latest posts

Back
Top