Jock, The area you drove through has alot of logging going on. The is really true from West Branch north. Grayling and Gaylord both have large mills and there is alos alot of veneer/hardwood lumber cutting going on. The upper peninsula of Mi also has alot of activity as there are many mills up there. BTW I live about 20 Minutes from Midland. Next time your in the area let me know. Ill buy you a brew or in your case maybe a scotch.
Art Martin: Will the Real Logger Please Stand Up
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Gypo Logger
Timber Baron
Hi Jock, I'm only 90 minutes from Midland Ontario, drop by when your up here. I'm a lazy logger by nature and work alone, looking only for Green Gold. 80 tons of hardwood logs is about all I do every month, also extracting the firewood to be sold in random lenghts. I will have to get back to you on where Mom's Dad was from. I promise to look you up when I get to go to Scotland.
Ben are we talking about the same Midland?
John
Ben are we talking about the same Midland?
John
Art Martin
ArboristSite Operative
Even though I have not met most of you, I feel you are my friends and that makes me appreciate all of you who have written and called expressing concern that I have not posted for some time. I want to thank you for your encouragement, support and the kind words to continue covering the subject of this post. It is very gratifying to know that I have had some impact on people learning to file chains properly that was my intent in the beginning of this portion of this thread.
At the present time, a member of my family is gravely ill and that has caused me a lot of concern, stress and has affected my mental attitude. I have not been able to give the proper attention to this topic. If I were to continue without my full concentration, I would not be able to cover the subject thoroughly. Sometimes one has to put the priorities in order before one can continue doing what one likes to do. I don’t want to post anything that I have not personally tried and tested in chain filing. When I post something, you can be certain that I have done it, tried it, and it works. I would like all the steps that I explain to be clear to understand and easy to follow. I do not want to proceed to the next step until everyone, who is interested, understands each step. I welcome questions and will answer everyone on a personal basis and if there is something that they do not understand to ask me to clarify the point. There are some things you cannot rush (i.e., like fine wine, it takes the proper aging). People should not expect to become proficient or and expert just by reading what I have tried to explain, but if you stick to it and practice the steps that I have explained, I can guarantee that you will be ahead of schedule.
The reason I am willing to spend a lot of time on racing chains is because there was a lot of interest and request for it. A lot of the “secrets” are hard to come by without outside help. Since I quit making racing chains (except for a few friends), I felt that if I covered the subject thoroughly, the ones who are really interested, could save many years of hit and miss experience the they would be doing on their own. Even after the subject is covered, I will be glad to help anyone on a personal basis with questions or even samples. There are a lot of little things that might not seem important, but they are accumulative and help reduce the cutting times that sometimes are measured in the hundredths of a second. I would like to hear what most of you think and understand where I’m coming from. I don’t want to get involved in any technical or mathematical discussions that I feel have no place on this thread.
The enclosed picture shows what we are striving for. The top picture shows a new chain; the middle one shows a chain where the teeth are cut back; the third one is a finished chain ready to go. Let’s just keep it at that.
Art Martin
At the present time, a member of my family is gravely ill and that has caused me a lot of concern, stress and has affected my mental attitude. I have not been able to give the proper attention to this topic. If I were to continue without my full concentration, I would not be able to cover the subject thoroughly. Sometimes one has to put the priorities in order before one can continue doing what one likes to do. I don’t want to post anything that I have not personally tried and tested in chain filing. When I post something, you can be certain that I have done it, tried it, and it works. I would like all the steps that I explain to be clear to understand and easy to follow. I do not want to proceed to the next step until everyone, who is interested, understands each step. I welcome questions and will answer everyone on a personal basis and if there is something that they do not understand to ask me to clarify the point. There are some things you cannot rush (i.e., like fine wine, it takes the proper aging). People should not expect to become proficient or and expert just by reading what I have tried to explain, but if you stick to it and practice the steps that I have explained, I can guarantee that you will be ahead of schedule.
The reason I am willing to spend a lot of time on racing chains is because there was a lot of interest and request for it. A lot of the “secrets” are hard to come by without outside help. Since I quit making racing chains (except for a few friends), I felt that if I covered the subject thoroughly, the ones who are really interested, could save many years of hit and miss experience the they would be doing on their own. Even after the subject is covered, I will be glad to help anyone on a personal basis with questions or even samples. There are a lot of little things that might not seem important, but they are accumulative and help reduce the cutting times that sometimes are measured in the hundredths of a second. I would like to hear what most of you think and understand where I’m coming from. I don’t want to get involved in any technical or mathematical discussions that I feel have no place on this thread.
The enclosed picture shows what we are striving for. The top picture shows a new chain; the middle one shows a chain where the teeth are cut back; the third one is a finished chain ready to go. Let’s just keep it at that.
Art Martin
Art, Welcome back. I just want to say that the whole site is at a loss with out your valuable insight.
Gypo, When jock said drive down from the soo I was thinking he ment Midland , MI. Could be wrong. Dunno. Ever Been to the Soo? i got walayed there a few times in school.
Gypo, When jock said drive down from the soo I was thinking he ment Midland , MI. Could be wrong. Dunno. Ever Been to the Soo? i got walayed there a few times in school.
Onthehillintn
ArboristSite Lurker
Art
Could we get a top veiw of the same 3 chains?
Thanks
Onthehillintn
Could we get a top veiw of the same 3 chains?
Thanks
Onthehillintn
dozerdan
Addicted to ArboristSite
Art
I am glad to see that you are back with us once again.I for one have truly missed your posts.
At this time I also have a family member that has become gravely ill,my mother in-law is in the hospital now,hopefully recovering from a stroke.I really couldn't ask for a nicer person and I dearly love the woman.The hospital that she is in is over 100 miles away from me.My only communication is by phone,so I haven't been on here as much as I would like to be.I still have dial up and only one phone line,I try to keep the line open so people can call me with updates on her condition.
Later
Dan
I am glad to see that you are back with us once again.I for one have truly missed your posts.
At this time I also have a family member that has become gravely ill,my mother in-law is in the hospital now,hopefully recovering from a stroke.I really couldn't ask for a nicer person and I dearly love the woman.The hospital that she is in is over 100 miles away from me.My only communication is by phone,so I haven't been on here as much as I would like to be.I still have dial up and only one phone line,I try to keep the line open so people can call me with updates on her condition.
Later
Dan
NeTree
Addicted to ArboristSite
Art,
First, let me say that I have zero interest in chainsaw racing, or racing chains. I never have, and likely never will. It's just not my "thing".
However, your witty, "down-home" , common-sense style of writing makes the subject so interesting that I just can't help but read all of your posts I can get, and enjoy them immensely. You have a way of explaining things that makes me actually "see" what you're doing to the chains; very easy to visualise. If you were to ever write a book, I know it would have to be a best-seller. And I'd HAVE to have a copy.
In the "ham" radio community, we have a nick-name for someone with alot of experience who takes the time to share their knowledge and teach the craft to others- an "elmer". You are one of the finest "elmers" I have seen.
I look forward to many more of your posts, and thank you tons for the ones you have made to date.
Yours,
Erik
[email protected]
First, let me say that I have zero interest in chainsaw racing, or racing chains. I never have, and likely never will. It's just not my "thing".
However, your witty, "down-home" , common-sense style of writing makes the subject so interesting that I just can't help but read all of your posts I can get, and enjoy them immensely. You have a way of explaining things that makes me actually "see" what you're doing to the chains; very easy to visualise. If you were to ever write a book, I know it would have to be a best-seller. And I'd HAVE to have a copy.
In the "ham" radio community, we have a nick-name for someone with alot of experience who takes the time to share their knowledge and teach the craft to others- an "elmer". You are one of the finest "elmers" I have seen.
I look forward to many more of your posts, and thank you tons for the ones you have made to date.
Yours,
Erik
[email protected]
Jock
ArboristSite Operative
Midland , Ontario, where they have all the murals on the walls and sylo's, beautiful place, met a guy there called Mark Guest, he's involved in logging, a nice guy who showed me around for a day, took me to see some operations and sawmill etc, we even had a couple of wry's ? wrie's ? anyway tastes like strong whiskey, hope to get back there soon , miss the Molson...
Art Martin
ArboristSite Operative
Onthehillintn,
Here's the top view of the finished racing chain. The other two chains are as they come from the factory. Hope this helps.
Art Martin
Here's the top view of the finished racing chain. The other two chains are as they come from the factory. Hope this helps.
Art Martin
Art Martin
ArboristSite Operative
JimL,
I take down the depth gauges to fit the situation. By that I mean, what kind and size of wood, cubic inches of the saw that I am using, the number of points on the sprocket and the type and length of bar.
Glen,
You are forgiven, what did you do?
Eric,
Thank you for the "elmer" handle. I take that as a compliment.
Dan,
Good luck on the ECC get-together.
Art Martin
I take down the depth gauges to fit the situation. By that I mean, what kind and size of wood, cubic inches of the saw that I am using, the number of points on the sprocket and the type and length of bar.
Glen,
You are forgiven, what did you do?
Eric,
Thank you for the "elmer" handle. I take that as a compliment.
Dan,
Good luck on the ECC get-together.
Art Martin
Crofter
Addicted to ArboristSite
Art:
Do you do anything to reduce the slop or lateral deflection in the chain?
Frank
Do you do anything to reduce the slop or lateral deflection in the chain?
Frank
Tzed250
Addicted to ArboristSite
WOW!
Holy Smokes look at that chain! That is beautiful. You can see the elements that you refered to in earlier posts, the ground rivets, chamfered sides, ground sideplate, etc,. Art, do I see a small hook near the sideplate/topplate intersection? Also, Is that chain 3/8ths or .404., it having an old style depth gage instead of the new ramped style. Thank you again, and I hope the best for you and yours in these troubled times.
John
Holy Smokes look at that chain! That is beautiful. You can see the elements that you refered to in earlier posts, the ground rivets, chamfered sides, ground sideplate, etc,. Art, do I see a small hook near the sideplate/topplate intersection? Also, Is that chain 3/8ths or .404., it having an old style depth gage instead of the new ramped style. Thank you again, and I hope the best for you and yours in these troubled times.
John
Fish
Tree Freak
Good to see you back, sorry that you have family health problems.
These guys here are truly interested in your methods, but may
get a tad technical.
How do you dress the tiestraps? Dremel tool? File?
These guys here are truly interested in your methods, but may
get a tad technical.
How do you dress the tiestraps? Dremel tool? File?
husky394
ArboristSite Operative
Art,
Thanks for coming back. Our thoughts and prayers are with you during this difficult time.
Chuck
Thanks for coming back. Our thoughts and prayers are with you during this difficult time.
Chuck
Art Martin
ArboristSite Operative
Crofter,
I am not familiar with the single term “slop” as anything concerning chainsaw chain unless you mean something like a sloppy groove in the bar. Please explain.
On the lateral deflection subject, the deflection you are probably referring to is the tooth being pushed toward the outside of the kerf. This is partly caused by the blunter angle of the inside top plate along with the pressure caused during the removal of the chip. If the inside side plate does not cleanly sever the wood fiber, then the top plate has to work harder to remove the chip and actually tears out a portion of the wood. This also becomes problematic when a “beak” is introduced during the filing procedure. The beak leads the all important side plate and actually lifts the fiber up before the sides are severed. By examining the chips, if you notice the edges have “whiskers” on the sides, this indicates that the kerf has not been cleanly severed. With racing chains this is important, but this is not a big deal with the average everyday user. This tearing action is inherent with round chain.
Art Martin
I am not familiar with the single term “slop” as anything concerning chainsaw chain unless you mean something like a sloppy groove in the bar. Please explain.
On the lateral deflection subject, the deflection you are probably referring to is the tooth being pushed toward the outside of the kerf. This is partly caused by the blunter angle of the inside top plate along with the pressure caused during the removal of the chip. If the inside side plate does not cleanly sever the wood fiber, then the top plate has to work harder to remove the chip and actually tears out a portion of the wood. This also becomes problematic when a “beak” is introduced during the filing procedure. The beak leads the all important side plate and actually lifts the fiber up before the sides are severed. By examining the chips, if you notice the edges have “whiskers” on the sides, this indicates that the kerf has not been cleanly severed. With racing chains this is important, but this is not a big deal with the average everyday user. This tearing action is inherent with round chain.
Art Martin
Art Martin
ArboristSite Operative
Tzed250,
I try to have a 10° forward slope on the side plate, if that is what you detected.
The chain you were viewing is a Carlton 3/8" pitch, .050 gauge (A1) full compliment. The adjustable depth gauge is an important tool if you do the progressive method. With the constant method, you use a fixed depth gauge and the efficiency constantly decreases as the chain is filed back.
What's the chance of you making me a copy of the video tape that you mentioned on another thread?
Art Martin
I try to have a 10° forward slope on the side plate, if that is what you detected.
The chain you were viewing is a Carlton 3/8" pitch, .050 gauge (A1) full compliment. The adjustable depth gauge is an important tool if you do the progressive method. With the constant method, you use a fixed depth gauge and the efficiency constantly decreases as the chain is filed back.
What's the chance of you making me a copy of the video tape that you mentioned on another thread?
Art Martin
Art,
I may be wrong as well as impatient, but I'm guessing Crofter was referring to sideways flexibility within the chain assembly itself, and whether you try to achieve more or less of that quality by adjusting rivet tension. If that's not what he had in mind, perhaps you'd address the question for me?
Thanks,
Glen
I may be wrong as well as impatient, but I'm guessing Crofter was referring to sideways flexibility within the chain assembly itself, and whether you try to achieve more or less of that quality by adjusting rivet tension. If that's not what he had in mind, perhaps you'd address the question for me?
Thanks,
Glen
StIhL MaGnUm
Addicted to ArboristSite
Welcome back Art.I'm glad to see you return with all your knowledge on woods and of course your famous racing chains.So far I have printed out all 22 pages of your thread and have let a few of my friends read up on all your tips and and how to and quite a few are switching over to square ground chains now due to finally knowing what angles to set them at etc.I have one question for you I think I asked you this before but I'll try again when you freehand a square chain what file due you prefer to use??I myself seem to like the 3 cornerd file.
Later Rob.
Later Rob.
