Art Martin: Will the Real Logger Please Stand Up

[Adkpk]

Around the chain we go again, welcome back. Spiffy job on the mandrel. Got a question for you already. As a chainsaw miller, I am always wondering about the rakers. As the chain is tearing through the wood you are always trying to get as much wood out of the cut as posible. Does the shape of the raker have any bearing on the pull of the tooth? Thanks for coming back.

 

[Wolfcsm]

Welcome back and thanks for the pictures.

Hal

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

opcorn:

 

[asb151]

The greatest thread ever on AS...

Without a doubt!

 

[Stihl 041S]

This has to be THE THREAD in the Biblical type, along with the great flood, there is not another one like it

Mister Martin Esq., if I may use the familiar, elegant vice. Cutoff blades for the rails?

My godmother grew up in a logging camp in upstate NY, her mom was the cook,always ready to listen to the stories.

I,m new to this forum, and didn't know about this thread, WOW, it is just so right, again, thank you.
Rob

 

[GASoline71]

Wow... good reading through this thread... AGAIN!

Welcome back Art. Lookin' forward to more.opcorn: opcorn: opcorn:

Gary

 

[Dan Forsh]

God bless you Art for jump starting your thread again.

I was recently thumbing through a few "which saw should I buy?" and "What mix ratio should I use?" threads and thinking how all the interesting threads that I used to see on here had dried up.

I recalled that someone had restarted your thread last year and this was my first viewing. I'll be honest, I couldn't remember your name and I couldn't remember the thread, but I was thinking of searching it out just so that people had something of worth to read. So I must appeal to anyone who hasn't seen this before...

Clear a couple hours, pour something pleasant, get comfy, kick your shoes off and settle down from the beginning.

This is one thread that really is worth reading from start to finish.

Dan

 

[Art Martin]

Adrpk,

The space between the teeth is where the sawdust is carried out with the momentum of the chain motion. If you lose the chain speed then it will bog down and it will be unable to clear the sawdust out of the cut. That’s why it’s necessary to have an engine with enough power to maintain this high speed on the chain.

I'm not sure what you mean by "pull of the tooth." First of all, the term raker is not correct. It is a depth gauge. If it was a raker, it would follow the cutting edge of the tooth as a cross cut saw does. The purpose of the depth gauge is to measure the distance the tooth's edge is allowed to take its "bite." Theoretically, the lower the depth gauge, the thicker the chip size. Since the tooth slants down as it gets closer to the rear rivet, the depth gauge must also be lowered more that it was when it left the factory. This progressive method would be hard to explain or describe without a gauge that takes into account the distance from the rear of the tooth (heel) and the amount the depth must be lowered because of the slope of the top of the tooth. As the tooth takes its bite, the front of the tooth is raised up and stopped only by the depth gauge. Therefore, Ray Carlton designed the file 'O plate to automatically measure this distance for the average person. On a new chain where the depth gauge is down .025" the approximate depth when the tooth is filed back to the rear rivet is .037". The shape of the depth gauge, as it is lowered, should have the same profile of a new tooth which has the front edge somewhat rounded. The depth gauge depicted in the attached photos are the most accurate and are only for a professional to use when the depth gauge setting are done on a grinder.

Art Martin

 

[dbabcock]

Excellent to see you back, Art! We got your Christmas card and it's good to see that you and Marita are doing well. I've just retired from corporate life and am in the process of deciding what I want to do for a living when I grow up. Talk to you soon. You too, Rotax!

 

[StIhL MaGnUm]

Hey Art and Doug good to see you two fellas back been a long time .. as always Art excellent thread you have going here with a wealth of information on chains and how to really make them work . Keep it coming .

Doug my fellow NH man , no corporate life just means more time to play with saws and have a good time , I actualy live closer to you now in Manchester . You still have your camp ? Well hey keep intouch..


Later Rob

 

[PLAYINWOOD]

Good to see your return Art.

 

[Adkpk]

very art-ticulate

Adrpk,

The space between the teeth is where the sawdust is carried out with the momentum of the chain motion. If you lose the chain speed then it will bog down and it will be unable to clear the sawdust out of the cut. That’s why it’s necessary to have an engine with enough power to maintain this high speed on the chain.

I'm not sure what you mean by "pull of the tooth." First of all, the term raker is not correct. It is a depth gauge. If it was a raker, it would follow the cutting edge of the tooth as a cross cut saw does. The purpose of the depth gauge is to measure the distance the tooth's edge is allowed to take its "bite." Theoretically, the lower the depth gauge, the thicker the chip size. Since the tooth slants down as it gets closer to the rear rivet, the depth gauge must also be lowered more that it was when it left the factory. This progressive method would be hard to explain or describe without a gauge that takes into account the distance from the rear of the tooth (heel) and the amount the depth must be lowered because of the slope of the top of the tooth. As the tooth takes its bite, the front of the tooth is raised up and stopped only by the depth gauge. Therefore, Ray Carlton designed the file 'O plate to automatically measure this distance for the average person. On a new chain where the depth gauge is down .025" the approximate depth when the tooth is filed back to the rear rivet is .037". The shape of the depth gauge, as it is lowered, should have the same profile of a new tooth which has the front edge somewhat rounded. The depth gauge depicted in the attached photos are the most accurate and are only for a professional to use when the depth gauge setting are done on a grinder.

Art Martin

Explained to me perfectly. Tip to toe. "The shape of the depth gauge, as it is lowered, should have the same profile of a new tooth which has the front edge somewhat rounded." This is what I need to work on. Thanks Art

 

[Adkpk]

Btw, I am talking about ripping chain. Same rule, right?

 

[ozflea]

Nice fella Art,

Got the chance to shake Art's hand last October at Placerville and the Rupley Bros saw show along with our ole mate Rotax Robert all these fellas are very nice people and if possible i will return next year from Australia.

The Gang

Mc Bob and Mike Rupley with Mikes Mac.

Jarad Plourde ... Marita Martin ... McBob.

Mc Bob.

 

[Art Martin]

Adrpk,

As far as the profile of the depth gauge is concerned, the rounded front edge would apply. As far as the amount the depth gauges are lowered would depend on the size of the saw/saws you are using as well as the type, size, and hardness of the wood you are ripping.

Art Martin

 

[Sprig]

Great to see you back here Art I look forward to more learning curve! This has been a great thread bar none! (ya ya pun)
I have a question about your depth gauge and that is is, how do you use it?
I am guessing that the square stock rides on a couple of the teeth behind the raker? Could you possibly post a pic or two of your tool sitting on a chain taking a reading? That would be very cool! Anyhow, hope all is well with you and your's and nice to see you out and about



Serge

 

[046]

Art, thanks for sharing!

 

[Art Martin]

Sprig,
The gauge that I posted the picture of is only to measure the exact depth of a certain tooth that you want to duplicate on a table chain grinder. If for instance you have a fast cutting chain and you want to use the same depth setting on another chain, all you need to do is place the square body of the gauge over several teeth to make sure it is level and adjust the dial indicator to get the reading on that particular tooth. Then you file down one tooth on the new chain to match that reading in the gauge. Then you place that chain in the bench chain grinder and lower the grinding wheel until it barely touches that pre- set tooth, then lock in your adjustment wheel and you are ready to get all your depth gauges the exact height. Then all you need to do is round off the front of the depth gauges to follow the profile of the original depth gauge. It's real fast and accurate. For those people that use the depth gauges that you purchase these days are fixed at a certain setting and are not adjustable, you can't follow the progressive method unless you go to the file 'O plate or have an old depth gauge with an adjustment wheel on it. Even with those adjustable gauges it was hard to know what the thousandths are because they just had numbers on the adjustment wheel that ran from 1 to 9. Myself, I like to know what the exact setting is in thousandths. Just for week-end wood cutters it isn't that important just as long as they don't have the chain on backwards, I suppose.

Art Martin

 

[Adkpk]

Adrpk,

As far as the profile of the depth gauge is concerned, the rounded front edge would apply. As far as the amount the depth gauges are lowered would depend on the size of the saw/saws you are using as well as the type, size, and hardness of the wood you are ripping.

Art Martin

Saw, type, size, hardness where do I start to figure that out? I mean, I don't need to make record breaking time going through a cut. But sometimes I feel the chain isn't ripping aggressively enough. I, of course think the depth gauge needs to be filed down. I just use the thingy you mentioned Carlton invented. And grind off the top of the depth gauge. But than I thinks to myself, what if I need to shape it. Or, what tells me how much for what wood or saw or size?

 

[PLAYINWOOD]

Hi Art. Very ingenious method of mounting a dial indicator on a machined piece of straightedge. You guys are taking this racing stuff to the en'th degree thats for sure. And why wouldn't you, fun is fun.
Mr.Martin if you have a moment, I read somewhere of your dealings with frozen wood and I can't find it anywhere. I'm currently using a Razor Sharp and am having an awful go with some frozen and probably dirty hard maple. If you had a minute I was
looking for any useful information regarding top plate and side plate cutter angles.
Have been watching for your presence on another site but to no avail.If your hangin somewhere else I would love to know.My PM system dosen't work here but it does elsewhere.
Thanx in advance Jeff....