AutoTune, just junk

[Subieman406]

I have a 08 ford 150 and the spark plugs are a pain but they arnt to bad if you have the tool to get the broken ones out dum ford put a 2 piece plug in there and said go 100K miles before change yeah right do mine every 30K miles never had a issue after the originals came out and aftermarket plugs went in also have a 562xp never had a problem except a weak clutch spring break I would highly recommend the 5 series saws few bugs in the carbs and other components that they are working out short of that great saws and auto tune is spot on every time even at 7000ft of elevation when cutting

 

[MountainHigh]

If I may be so bold as to also stick my neck on the chopping block for a moment here

Having worked with computers and made my living with computers since the late 1980's, motherboards are seldom repairable - they have ushered us into the disposable society - when they break, those inclined to hands-on taking care of problems, can't fiddle much with a motherboards delicate circuitry, seldom can anyone re-solder any of their broken wiring paths or mess with chips, we simply have to rely on experts with their software diagnostics to tell us they are broke and that we must throw it in the dust bin, buying another one, making more jobs for the smart Asian folks working in clean white-garb factories.

Years of experiences with the likes of 'Windows blue screen of death' and repeated motherboard failures which reinforce this uncertainty (I just had my oldest PC bite the dust last week - 8 years old), is it any wonder there are skeptics of this new disposable circuitry on our beloved carbs? (not to mention I'm betting the price of carbs with computers ain't cheap). Is there a saw owner here that can actually diagnose fully their new autotune/m-tronic saws on their own anymore without software and dongle? Huh! HeII even the 'average' saw dealer seems lacking in that department now.

If this step forward in saw technology also came with a USB interface dongle and full patch download site access for every user, much like 'Windows' finally offers its users, I would hail this as a breakthrough. In its absence however, it may look to those prone to conspiracies, more like a make work project.

I would venture that the more serious Chainsaw owner (AKA - Arborist Site member) is the type of person that doesn't take too well to being more removed from their close connection with stuff that clanks, grinds and whirrrs. Stuff they can actually see and hear with their naked eyes and ears and fiddle and fix (or ruin) with their 10 digits, rather than having to consult with and pay the man-behind-the-curtain.

I am very glad to see some sharp guys on this forum on the hunt for the real carb problems here, and am awaiting the final verdict from you guys and from Husky.
Hopefully pretty soon so I can buy some new toys with more confidence!

In the meantime, I'm enjoying the discourse opcorn: Thanks

-

 

[Chris-PA]

If I may be so bold as to also stick my neck on the chopping block for a moment here

Having worked with computers and made my living with computers since the late 1980's, motherboards are seldom repairable - they have ushered us into the disposable society - when they break, those inclined to hands-on taking care of problems, can't fiddle much with a motherboards delicate circuitry, seldom can anyone re-solder any of their broken wiring paths or mess with chips, we simply have to rely on experts with their software diagnostics to tell us they are broke and that we must throw it in the dust bin, buying another one, making more jobs for the smart Asian folks working in clean white-garb factories.

Years of experiences with the likes of 'Windows blue screen of death' and repeated motherboard failures which reinforce this uncertainty (I just had my oldest PC bite the dust last week - 8 years old), is it any wonder there are skeptics of this new disposable circuitry on our beloved carbs? (not to mention I'm betting the price of carbs with computers ain't cheap). Is there a saw owner here that can actually diagnose fully their new autotune/m-tronic saws on their own anymore without software and dongle? Huh! HeII even the 'average' saw dealer seems lacking in that department now.

If this step forward in saw technology also came with a USB interface dongle and full patch download site access for every user, much like 'Windows' finally offers its users, I would hail this as a breakthrough. In its absence however, it may look to those prone to conspiracies, more like a make work project.

I would venture that the more serious Chainsaw owner (AKA - Arborist Site member) is the type of person that doesn't take too well to being more removed from their close connection with stuff that clanks, grinds and whirrrs. Stuff they can actually see and hear with their naked eyes and ears and fiddle and fix (or ruin) with their 10 digits, rather than having to consult with and pay the man-behind-the-curtain.

I am very glad to see some sharp guys on this forum on the hunt for the real carb problems here, and am awaiting the final verdict from you guys and from Husky.
Hopefully pretty soon so I can buy some new toys with more confidence!

In the meantime, I'm enjoying the discourse opcorn: Thanks

-

I design circuitry like that, and our facility manufactures it. There is a huge difference in quality in both design and manufacture between consumer computer hardware and high end industrial electronics. For one thing it is rare that someone wears out a motherboard - they become obsolete and are disposed of before that. For another, they are designed to a be sold at a very low margin, so they cannot spend any extra on labor or parts costs. So it's got to be cheap and it doesn't have to last, so why bother? But even within the consumer computer hardware field there are significant differences between, say, low end FoxConn stuff and high end Gigabyte boards with 2oz copper, etc.

The ignition system and engine control computer in my '94 F250 are factory original. They still work perfectly. That's because they were well designed and made. One of my good friends and mentors was a Ford ignition system designer, and I know what kind of quality work went into it.

One of the biggest issues is electrolytic capacitors, which are the part type with the shortest lifetime, regardless of how well you implement them in the design. In an automobile with a 12Vdc system you don't need them. I am curious how they dealt with the power supply from the spinning crankshaft in these AT systems, but the fact is that they could have designed them to be as reliable as the EEC-IV computer in my truck.

Did they? I dunno, but if they did that'd be good enough. How many traditional carbs have not been serviced in 20 years?

 

[hamish]

Years of experiences with the likes of 'Windows blue screen of death' and repeated motherboard failures which reinforce this uncertainty (I just had my oldest PC bite the dust last week - 8 years old), is it any wonder there are skeptics of this new disposable circuitry on our beloved carbs? (not to mention I'm betting the price of carbs with computers ain't cheap). Is there a saw owner here that can actually diagnose fully their new autotune/m-tronic saws on their own anymore without software and dongle? Huh! HeII even the 'average' saw dealer seems lacking in that department now.

If this step forward in saw technology also came with a USB interface dongle and full patch download site access for every user, much like 'Windows' finally offers its users, I would hail this as a breakthrough. In its absence however, it may look to those prone to conspiracies, more like a make work project.

-

The AT/MT saws are still 95% regular saw. Most errors in diagnosing, are by automatically assuming its AT related, and forgeting the other 95% of the saw. Gen 1 AT didnt have a reader or any means to connect to it, and end users and dealers still failed to figure it out.

Gen 2 adds an interface but in reality it is not required to diagnose or work on the saw. Using basic troubleshooting still applies.

On a regular saw with an air leak what occurs........rpm increases, just like on a AT saw, thus troubleshoot as normal.

The failure of the actual AT module is almost non existant.

 

[MountainHigh]

I design circuitry like that, and our facility manufactures it. There is a huge difference in quality in both design and manufacture between consumer computer hardware and high end industrial electronics. .... hey are designed to a be sold at a very low margin, so they cannot spend any extra on labor or parts costs. So it's got to be cheap and it doesn't have to last, so why bother? But even within the consumer computer hardware field there are significant differences between, say, low end FoxConn stuff and high end Gigabyte boards with 2oz copper, etc.

The ignition system and engine control computer in my '94 F250 are factory original. They still work perfectly. That's because they were well designed and made. One of my good friends and mentors was a Ford ignition system designer, and I know what kind of quality work went into it.

One of the biggest issues is electrolytic capacitors, which are the part type with the shortest lifetime, regardless of how well you implement them in the design. In an automobile with a 12Vdc system you don't need them. I am curious how they dealt with the power supply from the spinning crankshaft in these AT systems, but the fact is that they could have designed them to be as reliable as the EEC-IV computer in my truck.

Did they? I dunno, but if they did that'd be good enough. How many traditional carbs have not been serviced in 20 years?

You have considerable experience in this area - I sure hope they are using as good as your 94 F250's comp.

On the subject of cheap - The PC that just had its mobo go teets-up originally cost me $2300 in 2005- without graphic card. It was a higher end Asus mobo multimedia PC for video editing and was always kept on a high end AVR power backup (as you likely know, flaky power is enemy of electronics) and hasn't been worked much for the last 4 years. I never skimped on quality ingredients in mission critical PC's and usually hand picked the parts for each box. Had some older PC's with cheap stuff in it that were still working when I threw them out, but also had about 15% duds.

New XP 500 series saws - appx. $500 to $800 +/ - depending on location
I sure hope they are not going the cheap route on parts like my PC

I'll beat you to it .... what you pay does not always equate to quality.

Power supply in chainsaw eh! now that's got me wondering too!


-

 

[fuzz1500]

I have read all this stuff . I think its good to be cautious of new technology for a bit..until the "bugs" are worked out . But I tell ya...no matter what saw brand a fella owns....grab an AT or MT saw.........the benefits seem to out way the myths !! I got my GF a 550xp . I was a little skeptical . But now...Im saving for one of my own . Very impressive indeed In another few years..I bet that the AT style systems will be widely used amongst all saw manufacturers . And when my kid is older....people will be like..."wow...look at that old regular carb saw ....arent you glad we dont have to use those !! " "How did your dad ever use that thing !"

 

[MountainHigh]

I have read all this stuff . I think its good to be cautious of new technology for a bit..until the "bugs" are worked out . But I tell ya...no matter what saw brand a fella owns....grab an AT or MT saw.........the benefits seem to out way the myths !! I got my GF a 550xp . I was a little skeptical . But now...Im saving for one of my own . Very impressive indeed In another few years..I bet that the AT style systems will be widely used amongst all saw manufacturers . And when my kid is older....people will be like..."wow...look at that old regular carb saw ....arent you glad we dont have to use those !! " "How did your dad ever use that thing !"

- I totally agree with your appraisal of the future but I'm not so sure the digital age and its huge changes with diminishing end user control and erosion of privacy is going to be so utopian.

2025 - Exciting news!
Your new carbon credit authorized Chain Saw is now completely wireless so you no longer have to plug it in to report your usage to the authorities - we automatically diagnose your performance and update your NSA profile whenever the RFID chip is scanned by your vehicle or your smart meter- saving you time and effort - thank you for doing your part to save the environment

- Geeez - just realized how far off topic I'm getting- sorry

 

[fuzz1500]

- Geeez - just realized how far off topic I'm getting- sorry

You should be sorry !! hahaahahah

 

[one.man.band]

not an electrical guy. so, have a couple of questions.

are the code readers for these brand specific? will a husq reader work on stihl.......or are the trouble codes generic numbers like on cars?

the modules are powered by the coil/magnets. will altering the base timing effect the function of the module? does this effect short term of long term fuel trims? (don't know if saws have this yet or ever will).

just wondering why it takes minutes of runtime to adjust fuel. am i wrong in this.

guess it was more than a few questions.

regards
-joe

 

[cre10]

I have read all this stuff . I think its good to be cautious of new technology for a bit..until the "bugs" are worked out . But I tell ya...no matter what saw brand a fella owns....grab an AT or MT saw.........the benefits seem to out way the myths !! I got my GF a 550xp . I was a little skeptical . But now...Im saving for one of my own . Very impressive indeed In another few years..I bet that the AT style systems will be widely used amongst all saw manufacturers . And when my kid is older....people will be like..."wow...look at that old regular carb saw ....arent you glad we dont have to use those !! " "How did your dad ever use that thing !"

We need pictures of the GF...I mean pictures of the saw

 

[labdad]

- I totally agree with your appraisal of the future but I'm not so sure the digital age and its huge changes with diminishing end user control and erosion of privacy is going to be so utopian.

2025 - Exciting news!
Your new carbon credit authorized Chain Saw is now completely wireless so you no longer have to plug it in to report your usage to the authorities - we automatically diagnose your performance and update your NSA profile whenever the RFID chip is scanned by your vehicle - saving you time and effort - thank you for doing your part to save the environment

- Geeez - just realized how far off topic I'm getting- sorry

That's the problem with some of the new tech, you get the good and you take the bad. Is a little bad worth some good??? I don't know but time will tell and there is a part of me that is glad I'm on the short side of finding out.....just saying.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

I bought into the AT technology because I couldn't rely on the "old guard" when I needed it. I do not use my saws regularly, but when I need them, I want them to work. Ethanol and long periods of storage didn't treat my 32 yr old 162SE very kindly. When Irene, and then Sandy blew through here I needed to clear debris and my saw was dead with a gummed up carb and fuel lines that literally disintegrated. In fact, I was rebuilding the carb annually for at least the last 10 years.

So when I started researching new saws and stumbled upon AutoTune, I was very intrigued. About that time I found AS as well and I read everything I could find. Then I noticed Husqvarna offering to double the non-commercial warranty from 2 to 4 years by simply purchasing their premix fuel with the saw. After thinking about it for a while, I decided to spring for a new 562 and vowed to only run premix in it. In my mind, that would eliminate most, if not all, the long terms storage issues I run into.

Well, after getting and using the 562, I was sold... so much so I went out and grabbed a 550 as well. Picked up a used 562 off the 'bay too. I know I'll never use these saws to their fullest potential (thank you AS for inflicting me with CAD) but I know they'll be there ready to go when I need them most. I've used them in 90° heat and 20° cold. I've used them all day long and for only a few minutes here and there. Every time I've needed a saw, they've been ready to go.

I realize my decision to run the premix has a big impact on the way the new saws run, but I feel the AT system is equally as important since I never have to worry about dialing in the saw to the current conditions.

And, as has been said numerous times already, there really have not been many true AT problems or failures.

 

[woodchipper95]

I bought into the AT technology because I couldn't rely on the "old guard" when I needed it. I do not use my saws regularly, but when I need them, I want them to work. Ethanol and long periods of storage didn't treat my 32 yr old 162SE very kindly. When Irene, and then Sandy blew through here I needed to clear debris and my saw was dead with a gummed up carb and fuel lines that literally disintegrated. In fact, I was rebuilding the carb annually for at least the last 10 years.

So when I started researching new saws and stumbled upon AutoTune, I was very intrigued. About that time I found AS as well and I read everything I could find. Then I noticed Husqvarna offering to double the non-commercial warranty from 2 to 4 years by simply purchasing their premix fuel with the saw. After thinking about it for a while, I decided to spring for a new 562 and vowed to only run premix in it. In my mind, that would eliminate most, if not all, the long terms storage issues I run into.

Well, after getting and using the 562, I was sold... so much so I went out and grabbed a 550 as well. Picked up a used 562 off the 'bay too. I know I'll never use these saws to their fullest potential (thank you AS for inflicting me with CAD) but I know they'll be there ready to go when I need them most. I've used them in 90° heat and 20° cold. I've used them all day long and for only a few minutes here and there. Every time I've needed a saw, they've been ready to go.

I realize my decision to run the premix has a big impact on the way the new saws run, but I feel the AT system is equally as important since I never have to worry about dialing in the saw to the current conditions.

And, as has been said numerous times already, there really have not been many true AT problems or failures.

I am sold, I can not wait to get my Husky 545! Hurry up tax money!!!

 

[MountainHigh]

In fact, I was rebuilding the carb annually for at least the last 10 years.

I realize my decision to run the premix has a big impact on the way the new saws run, but I feel the AT system is equally as important since I never have to worry about dialing in the saw to the current conditions.

I am in the habit of running my old saw dry after each use and that may be why it still has no major issues or hoses clogging after 13 years.
I run 91 octane gas, fuel stabilizer and 32/1 synthetic mix, so any residual always has lots of oil and some fuel preservative.

Did you always leave them gased up or run dry? If you left them gassed up, running more of something like your new premix might have saved your old saws as well.

Can you tell me more about which saw you like using the best and why? What conditions do you favour them both in and when do you put down the 562 and pick up the 550?

Do you do any damage to these new saws running them dry if you want to clear everything out of the carb for storage?

Thanks

 

[hamish]

not an electrical guy. so, have a couple of questions.

are the code readers for these brand specific? will a husq reader work on stihl.......or are the trouble codes generic numbers like on cars?

the modules are powered by the coil/magnets. will altering the base timing effect the function of the module? does this effect short term of long term fuel trims? (don't know if saws have this yet or ever will).

just wondering why it takes minutes of runtime to adjust fuel. am i wrong in this.

guess it was more than a few questions.

regards
-joe

Joe,
The readers are brand specific, the modules are powered cy coil/magnets, altering base timing gets tricky with two magnets on the flywheel, I wouldn't even want to think about, much rather go cut wood.
The saws have an rpm based fuel trim, testing for lean conditions and adjusting within its mapping to adjust.
It takes minutes of runtime to adjust because at 14,000rpm and the system only conducting a lean out test every second..............a lot of revolutions go by in the meantime.

Hope I made my reply easy to understand, and for other readers fuel trim is basically the air/fuel mixture, adjusting for lean or rich conditions.

 

[KenJax Tree]

As cold as its been the past month my AT saws have started just as easy as always. It was -25 the other day and my 550xp started on the 4th pull it popped on the 2nd, the 562 is the same way.


Sent from my Autotune Carb

 

[fuzz1500]

As cold as its been the past month my AT saws have started just as easy as always. It was -25 the other day and my 550xp started on the 4th pull it popped on the 2nd, the 562 is the same way.

I can vouch for the 550xp cold starting as well !!

 

[one.man.band]

Joe,
The readers are brand specific, the modules are powered cy coil/magnets, altering base timing gets tricky with two magnets on the flywheel, I wouldn't even want to think about, much rather go cut wood.
The saws have an rpm based fuel trim, testing for lean conditions and adjusting within its mapping to adjust.
It takes minutes of runtime to adjust because at 14,000rpm and the system only conducting a lean out test every second..............a lot of revolutions go by in the meantime.

Hope I made my reply easy to understand, and for other readers fuel trim is basically the air/fuel mixture, adjusting for lean or rich conditions.

thanks hamish. appreciate you sharing the knowledge as always.

the temperature sensor portion.... measures ambient air intake temp? (just a guess). this must make some fuel trim adjustment, or at least a starting trim adjustment (for quick starts) as well?

just trying to put my head around this new tech a little bit at a time so it will sink in, before i fall behind completely trying to troubleshoot these things.

regards
-joe

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

Did you always leave them gased up or run dry? If you left them gassed up, running more of something like your new premix might have saved your old saws as well.

Started running them dry maybe 5-6 yrs ago but still had problems. The OEM diaphrams in the carb kits aren't E-friendly so the carb would still dry out and need rebuilding almost every year.

And, admittedly, I didn't pamper the saws until I stumbled upon this place.

Can you tell me more about which saw you like using the best and why? What conditions do you favour them both in and when do you put down the 562 and pick up the 550?

I love them both! Obviously, the 562 shines in bigger wood. The 550 is used mostly for limbing but will eat through 12" rounds as good as the 562. I haven't dropped any trees with these saws yet but I've used the 550 to limb and take care of the top half of the trees and then finished up the larger trunks with the 562.

Do you do any damage to these new saws running them dry if you want to clear everything out of the carb for storage?

As long as you drain the tanks and then idle them dry you should be fine. I've been told they really don't like being run dry in the wood (as most saws don't) because that creates a lean condition for a few seconds which can be detrimental.

The 550 and 562 are easily the best 2 saws I've ever used in my limited experience. They're light, well balanced, and powerful.

 

[KenJax Tree]

Buy a 5 gallon pail of VP C9 fuel its 94 octane E free and is for storage but you can also run it, They now make it premix also its 50:1 with Motul 710 oil and at $60 its way cheaper than using Tru-Fuel at $6 a can.


Sent from my Autotune Carb