AV Gas

[toolmaker]

I have a couple of Stihl saws, all of them are Pro series.
I don't cut anywhere even close to the amount of firewood that I used to cut, but truly LOVE to get out and run the saws and cut some wood. When I am done for the day, I always strip the saws down and give them a proper cleaning, sharpening, and put them away for "ready-to-go" for the next time I use them.

My local dealer sells Airplane fuel (AV Gas). I am certain that all of you know what that is and the reasoning behind using it in a 2-stroke.

The dealer tells me it never goes bad.

It is very expensive, but for the amount of fuel that I would be using, the cost would not be a problem.

Would it really benefit me, the weekend-warrior, to use AV Gas in my saws?

Why? What would it do for my saws?

 

[Gologit]

There's a lot of opinions...pro and con...on av gas. Most of the guys who use it wouldn't use anything else. Most of the guys who don't use it have never really tried it in a work environment and rely on hearsay and anecdotal evidence as to why they shouldn't.

I'm no scientist or engineer and I don't have a lot of fancy numbers or scientific jargon to back up my opinion. I'll tell you what works for me and for a lot of guys that I know and work with.

I've been running 100LL in my saws for several years. I've had good luck with it. My saws get used hard and I've never had a gas related failure. If I watch my carb adjustment there's no problem with carbon buildup or plug fouling. I run Bailey's synthetic oil at about 40;1 and that seems to be a good mix. Most saws don't really need 100 octane fuel but I can't see where it hurts anything either. Again, this opinion is just mine .. No scientific evidence, just a lot of time on the saw.

The main thing about avgas is that it's a very pure and consistent fuel. Buying pump gas is a real crap-shoot in our area. You never really know how much ethanol you're getting. Most of the little mom and pop stations buy their gas from brokers and you never know what refinery it's coming out of or how strict their specs are. With avgas you know exactly what you're getting because it's refined to very strict standards.

Avgas stores well, as you said. I don't really know how long it will keep but I've used some that had been in the can for a year and had no problem.

Some of the people who use their saws infrequently use the canned ready mixed fuels. I've never used them...the cost factor doesn't work for me...but a lot of people report good results.

 

[toolmaker]

There's a lot of opinions...pro and con...on av gas. Most of the guys who use it wouldn't use anything else. Most of the guys who don't use it have never really tried it in a work environment and rely on hearsay and anecdotal evidence as to why they shouldn't.

I'm no scientist or engineer and I don't have a lot of fancy numbers or scientific jargon to back up my opinion. I'll tell you what works for me and for a lot of guys that I know and work with.

I've been running 100LL in my saws for several years. I've had good luck with it. My saws get used hard and I've never had a gas related failure. If I watch my carb adjustment there's no problem with carbon buildup or plug fouling. I run Bailey's synthetic oil at about 40;1 and that seems to be a good mix. Most saws don't really need 100 octane fuel but I can't see where it hurts anything either. Again, this opinion is just mine .. No scientific evidence, just a lot of time on the saw.

The main thing about avgas is that it's a very pure and consistent fuel. Buying pump gas is a real crap-shoot in our area. You never really know how much ethanol you're getting. Most of the little mom and pop stations buy their gas from brokers and you never know what refinery it's coming out of or how strict their specs are. With avgas you know exactly what you're getting because it's refined to very strict standards.

Avgas stores well, as you said. I don't really know how long it will keep but I've used some that had been in the can for a year and had no problem.

Some of the people who use their saws infrequently use the canned ready mixed fuels. I've never used them...the cost factor doesn't work for me...but a lot of people report good results.

Does AV Gas increase RPMs or horsepower?
I realize the carb will need adjusted and tuned after going to AV Gas......

 

[Gologit]

Does AV Gas increase RPMs or horsepower?
I realize the carb will need adjusted and tuned after going to AV Gas......

As far as I know it does neither. As far as carb adjustment goes it's a very minor change. Some people have reported idling issues or a minor loss of power with avgas but I've never experienced that problem.
Believe me, if my saws didn't run as well as I need them to run using avgas I'd use something else.

 

[madhatte]

If you're lucky, something like this may be an option (pictured here in downtown Olympia, WA)

 

[jomoco]

Been runnin 100+ octane racing fuel with Stihl's silver synthetic mix now for over a year.

All my saws love it. One pull starts, much better performance and rpm, fewer carb and fuel line issues.

Took me too long to realize that even at ten bucks a gallon it's well worth every penny when you do this for a living!

jomoco

 

[treeslayer2003]

you guys must have some crappy gas out there..........i have only had one fuel line issue since thay went to 10% here. i been told its because my gas gets used fast but i expect y'all use it as fast as i do at least. we do have marine gas but its a pain to go out my way to get and i see no difference yet. i do put it in the 4 wheeler as it sits alot.

 

[jomoco]

There's a damn good reason the nascar and Baja racers all use 100+ octane leaded fuels in competition mate.

You want throttle response?

jomoco

 

[buzz sawyer]

One thing to be concerned about AV gas - it may contain tetraethyl lead which would damage a catalytic converter - so it would not be a good idea to dump it into a vehicle to use it up.

 

[jomoco]

I'm semi-retired, only do 2-3 days a week max. But high octane leaded racing fuel doesn't go bad IME.

My understanding is that the higher the saw's compression ratio? The better response to runnin racing fuel.

Stihl's have a higher ratio to huskies, but all my saws both Stihl and Husky run much better regardless.

None of my saws are computer(micro-processor) controlled, so the newer saws may not like high octane leaded fuels to the same degree my antique saws do.

I can only speak to my experience runnin it in the older saws to date.

jomoco

 

[HuskStihl]

Run what you like

 

[jomoco]

So anyway, back in 06-07 when wildfires were raging through the Big bear and Lake Arrowhead areas of the San Bernadino Mountains, I got hired to perform strategic removals on very high end celeb properties. Beach front homes with boat docks n mansions on the Lake Arrowhead shoreline.

Dude who hires me is a third generation logger, out of a Auberry CA, a millionaire who wasn't afraid to get his hands dirty. Could show you firsthand how to perform any nasty logging job. But was admittedly unused to advanced roping techniques using Hobbs n speedline n such.

Had a huge yard very close to the lake, big maintenance bldg, with a saw maintence room specifically. So after work I'd go there and use his Silvey chain grinder to sharpen my long chains rather than do it by hand. One corner of that room had a four foot high pile of fried Stihl mid and large chainsaws that the guys robbed salvageable pieces parts from. Must've been fifty or so saws in that pile!

So a few days into this huge removal contract for this third generation old school logger, he got into the habit of takin me out after work and showin me the next removal needing my particular expertise.

His personal work truck was like a million others, multiple auxiliary fuel tanks in the back, for different equip. So he pulls into a fueling station, tells me to fill the rearmost tank with gas for saw mix, while he goes into pay. So I grab the super unleaded premium nozzle and start filling the rearmost tank.

He comes runnin out chewin me out about using super unleaded, to shut that pump off and use the regular unleaded unless I was gonna pay for it!

He was the boss, and I the highly paid sub, so I did as I was told to. But like a flashbulb going off in my mind, that huge pile of Stihl's most expensive saws, with minimal signs of wear and tear, began to make a little more sense to me bout how they fried and met early deaths!

New Stihl's were nothing to him but another tax write off.

Must be nice eh?

jomoco

 

[Gologit]

New Stihl's were nothing to him but another tax write off.

Must be nice eh?

jomoco

Darn right it's nice. Saws are just another tool. Use 'em up, write 'em off, new saws all the time or at least every year. It's called business.

 

[treeslayer2003]

i ain't ever fried one but i do run mine a tad rich........some guys like um to scream.......

 

[mdavlee]

87 is fine in saws. I've run plenty with 200 lbs of compression on it. I've tested the high octane fuels and they produce lower cut speeds. If you don't have good fuel available the $10/gal stuff might be fine. I had one saw that wouldn't even run on the 110. It didn't have enough compression. We have plenty of e free gas available so I run 87 and I know it's fresh.

 

[jomoco]

Yeah, and when your new fangled computer controlled saw won't start?

And your're trapped under a shoreline felled log, and the tides risin?

Henry Stamper's son gonna save yu givin yu mouth to mouth?

Some guys just never give an inch!

jomoco

 

[066blaster]

I have tried the 110 race gas and my saws ran rich on it. I have access to 93 non ethanol that I try to use as often as possible. But the 87 octane 10% ethanol works just fine if you use it up fast. Plus most of the new synthetic oils have a stabilizer in them. I don't think you will gain any power from the high octane unless you had some work done, and the compression is really high.

 

[1270d]

after I put a new power band in my saw it needed race gas. doubled the power and rpms.... yeah, at least doubled.

 

[jomoco]

I tune my saws in the wood, cutting.

Rev em up outta the cut and they garble and 4stroke a lot.

It's in the wood that my saws come alive n scream..

jomoco

 

[northmanlogging]

wow I smell a lot of bull ****... just say'n

Anyway, the av gas is nice cause its clean and has a long shelf life.

Octane has minimal effect on power, unless you get the low ball 87 crud, it has more to do with burn rate than anything, High compression engines need high octane fuel to prevent pinging and predetonation, which is predetonation. That is all, you may get some added benefit from the higher octane but not enough to justify the cost.

The canned fuel is nice cause its got a decent shelf life and no ethanol, ethanol is bad period. However if you plan on using yer saw often it quickly loses its charm at $10 a liter (like $20 a gallon or so)

Me I run 92 non heathanol in all my small engines, saws, mowers, presser warshers, generators, there is a place sorta local I can get it, In the dump truck its 92 whatever I can get, as I don't have the luxury of passing many fuel stations, and he don't run so good on lower grade fuel.

Mostly I run the 92 as it makes me feel better, I've ran 87 in my saws and not noticed a huge difference, but the 92 has that smell, and if I'm paying more for it hopefully its a better product.