Backup (non TIP) anchors for newbie Spur climbing

[oldboy]

Thanks Guys, no offense taken.

Ha, I guess they'll be a little more comfy with the pads on the right way. When I took them out of the box, there were no instructions, so I just assembled the pads and straps to what felt right. My shins were a little sore up there, but I figured a little discomfort is part of climbing, I appreciate you pointing that out.

Dan

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

NVM I ran to the barn to get my spikes and your right Oak Savana - there on backwards

They come out of the box that way.

Sometimes I use the rock climbing technique of setting chokers on my way up a brittle tree and have some one belay me... a fat load of good that will do.

 

[kator]

View attachment 339131 Well I got 'er done, ended up rigging the top off itself with a stretchy climbing rope, no ground guy, then pieced it down. Pretty easy in hindsight, I climbed to where it was about 4 inches and topped it.

I just started practicing climbing with spurs on a 40' spruce. I feel comfortabe up to 15', but when I get higher and the trunk is getting thin I am afraid of gaffs to kick out.
Could you elaborate more on how you secured yourself to the tree in case of kick out and how do you position your legs, gaffs and torso on a thin trunk? Thanks a lot.

 

[Guran]

I just started practicing climbing with spurs on a 40' spruce. I feel comfortabe up to 15', but when I get higher and the trunk is getting thin I am afraid of gaffs to kick out. Could you elaborate more on how you secured yourself to the tree in case of kick out and how do you position your legs, gaffs and torso on a thin trunk? Thanks a lot.

Yep, It´s a bit scary when you're high up on spikes on a thin trunk. Kicking out with only your lanyard could mean a ride sometimes.
You can use your friction/cambium saver and choke it around the trunk, together with your climbing rope. If you kick out and loose your foothold, it will grab instantly.

Some basic stuff about climbing with spurs below:

 

[kator]

Thank you Guran for your thoughts. I am leaving stubs on the side I don't climb, so the lanyard will stop on it at worst. Once I manage to get enough high, so the spar is 8-6" I intend to double wrap the lanyard. I wish the "climbing arborist" would show how to climb on a thin spar. Is the technique somewhat different on a 6" twig? I read that some guys use pole gaffs on small trunks for better stability. I was thinking about practicing a kick out on a low height. Is it a good idea or it is too risky and bruisy?

 

[joezilla11]

Try it out with your lanyard and with a wrap too. Ull get an idea of what to expect and ull see how it'll hold and give u some confidence. I saw a video once on this topic I'll see if I can find it for u

 

[joezilla11]

 

[kator]

I did a controlled gaffing out on a 11-inch trunk. For those who are learning to use the spurs like me, here is what I have learned.
It is not as peaceful as the above video shows. Sure, if you hold your lanyard firmly with both hands while you gaffing out you will feel like nothing happened.
However, I would expect to experience gaffing out in less perfect circumstances, so I decided to jump off the tree without holding the lanyard. The lanyard was sliding down and if I would not be close to the ground it would probably be a long ride.
I climbed a bit higher with the double wrap. In this case the lanyard choked the trunk right away and stopped me. It was not pleasant though, as I slammed the trunk with my chest.
It may not be so bad in real life as I purposely jumped off with open arms, and held my hands away all the time.
The experiment definitely taught me about the safety challenges of spurs on thin trunks. It also helped me to gain confidence, because now I know first hand the consequences of a kick out.
Moving a double wrap lanyard is cumbersome. I was hugging the tree while moving this up or down which is supposed to increase a chance of a kick out, but I felt safe.

 

[oldboy]

"Could you elaborate more on how you secured yourself to the tree in case of kick out and how do you position your legs, gaffs and torso on a thin trunk? Thanks a lot."

Hi Kator,

Well I am definitely not the person to ask, cause I'm very new to this too. On that skinny alder in the picture, I just kicked in hard, and used a backup false crotch. The top of the tree felt safer in the sense of slipping because of the stubs I left not far below, there were no branches below the upper part of the tree.

Thanks for sharing your experience comparing the double wrap vs single.

 

[kator]

Using the spurs happened to be just the beginning of the learning curve. After conquering fear of height I removed all the branches up to the topping part. However when I am now just bellow the top, any movement causes the trunk to wobble, and I am afraid of a dangerous jolt when the top will start falling. The trunk is about 6" in diameter at the lanyard. The false crotch for the climbing line is wrapped around a 4" trunk right above the 6" trunk/knot. What are the conciderations in this probably typical scenario? Would you leave the lower branches to absorb a shock(too late now) or it is not commonly practiced? What if you have to rig the top? Does this top appear too heavy in order to do it safely? Any thoughts are appreciated.

 

[kator]

This youtube clip shows how violent and life threating can be topping off. What do you think could be done differently to avoid such a shock?
My first impression was that he should cut more branches and climb to a higher point, but is it that simple?

 

[CanopyGorilla]

Using the spurs happened to be just the beginning of the learning curve. After conquering fear of height I removed all the branches up to the topping part. However when I am now just bellow the top, any movement causes the trunk to wobble, and I am afraid of a dangerous jolt when the top will start falling. The trunk is about 6" in diameter at the lanyard. The false crotch for the climbing line is wrapped around a 4" trunk right above the 6" trunk/knot. What are the conciderations in this probably typical scenario? Would you leave the lower branches to absorb a shock(too late now) or it is not commonly practiced? What if you have to rig the top? Does this top appear too heavy in order to do it safely? Any thoughts are appreciated.

From the looks of that picture there is no need to rig that top. I would double wrap my lanyard (while I had my life line in place, duh) and then make a face and dumper away from the house. If you are not confident in your felling skills have someone pull in the intended direction of fall with a rope. As soon as I see my hinge start to open I SLAM the chain brake to make sure there is no way a running saw can hit me. I sort of have a three step process once a top starts to go weather I am negative rigging or just letting it fall. Step 1: hit chain brake, Step 2: cuff the tree with your free hand (remember to resist the urge to pull yourself into the tree, as this will make you less stable on your spikes), Step 3: ride the wave.
To answer your question, no that is not to much top to rig. The climber swinging out of control in that video you posted was a result of a poor groundy not letting the top run at all, and the climber not being fully prepared for the convertible ride.

 

[CanopyGorilla]

I would also emphasize the double wrap thing. There is literally no way you are going to take much of a ride when you do that. It won't feel good if you hit the trunk or put a spur in your leg, but your not going down to far. I slip gaffs all the time on thin trees with sketchy bark and it really is not that big of a deal. Just to give you a frame of reference, and not being a ****, the tree in your picture would take me less than an hour to have on the ground, and it would take a really good climber less than 30 min.
^^to kator, not the OP^^

 

[VA-Sawyer]

Heck, I believe that I could have it down in an hour, and I'm slow!

 

[kator]

Thank you all, for your comments. It is (was) my first tree ever. I wanted to practice as much as I could on it, hence I wanted to rig the top. I gave up the idea because of fear of breaking the 5" trunk which supported me.
I like to take time while learning and climbed this tree about a dozen times before taking it down. The sap was all over the trunk, and eventually the lanyard. I cut the top with a hand saw. It took awhile to put this tree down, but today I can cut a tree like this in two hours probably, without shaking in my pants on the top.

P.S. My way of learning would not make an instructor from this video happy.

 

[Ryan Shaw]

Thanks for all your input guys, I think my first climb is Wednesday and a lot of questions I had been wondering were answered here

 

[kator]

Hey Ryan,
I am glad you also benefit from this thread.
As for the quote, it is important to first learn how to do things right, but learning from others' mistakes, especially from those who have the expertise, helps to tamper arrogance and develop a respect for life endeavors. For me tree climbing (and cutting) is also a lesson of humility.

P.S.
He managed to cut this tree down in less than 20 minuts

 

[Ryan Shaw]

Hey Ryan,
I am glad you also benefit from this thread.
As for the quote, it is important to first learn how to do things right, but learning from others' mistakes, especially from those who have the expertise, helps to tamper arrogance and develope a respect for life endeavors. For me tree climbing (and cutting) is also a lesson of humility.

P.S.
He managed to cut this tree down in less than 20 minuts

Haha, that quote wasn't in reference to this discussion, it's my signature or whatever. It's a Shigoism that made it possible for many arborists on this forum to have the tree knowledge that they do. But, yeah, I would agree with that statement too. I'm happy to learn from the mistakes of people like the man in that video rather then make them myself haha. But when I do make a mistake, I'll take the positive from it, I.E. the lesson

 

[BuckmasterStumpGrinding]

You might try a speed line like this.

 

[woodchuck357]

When I was first climbing with spurs, I seldom put a rope in the tree before I climbed it. I would tie a line to my belt, click my strap to one of the rings and start up the tree. Nothing but hands and spurs until I got to working height then throw the strap around, catch it, click in, lean back, then pull up the saw and any ropes needed with my "getting line". The only times I used a strap or lanyard, to climb with, was on trees bigger than about 30 inches DBH. The few times I gaffed out, both spurs, I had no problem hanging on and resume climbing.
All was fine for several years, got married, started a family, Wife came and watched me work one day and that was the end of that. Rope in the tree, around my butt, bowline with a tail tied in a blakes hitch and a strap or flipline around the tree before a spur touches bark. Working with folks that would love to tell her if I went back to my old carefree ways. Just a good thing I never let her see me foot locking up a rope with no safety line!
Now I use a full harness, always have someone who's only job is to watch for something to go wrong, am always tied in two ways with one being a rope. Of course I can no longer bench three times my weight, dead lift twice it, or curl nearly half. And that's not all because I weigh more!
Last week I had occasion to use my 80 cc mack with a 30 inch bar, up a tree, taking down a big Sycamore, and it sure was harder than when I used to do that when the saw was new.