Bees.....

[LegDeLimber]

I wonder about that rising allergy issue too.
It's always been during yardwork for me.
Around here the jackets tend to favor ground nests for some reason.

But reaction to Yellow Jackets stings have gone from disturbing the nest
and getting lit up pretty good (20~60 stings) before you can get out of the area.
I'd wait an hour or so for them to settle a bit and go fetch the mower or tools then get back to work (in a different spot of course)
I'd be swollen and sore from them but able to manage.

Fast forward to last summer and while mowing in front yard I disturbed a small nest that was less than two weeks old.
This was a regularly cut area is why I know it to be fresh.
I got 5~6 stings on the legs and it felt like I had the flue or something
and all my joints hurt.
Was hard to walk for a couple of days and still felt sore all over for a few about a week.

I've noticed if you are digging in ground and there is a colony around
They will show up and seem to be after any bugs/worms that you've
cut while digging.

They seem to be pretty good parasite removers for yard plants
But I can't risk getting into a nest anymore, so I'm always looking for
any in the area and watch for the direction they are flying off towards,
to try and get a location for eradication.

 

[ducaticorse]

If you're allergic to stings its either that or you die

Or my personal favorite, the trachiotomy

 

[jefflovstrom]

Or my personal favorite, the trachiotomy

Always carry a pen,,lol
Jeff

 

[pdqdl]

The common perception is that your throat swells up and you cannot breath, but that really isn't the whole story.

It is really a case of all your blood vessels developing leaks, which vastly increases the inter-cellular fluids everywhere...including your lungs. Although it seems like you are being choked by the neck, you are really having a really nasty asthma attack (while also being choked by the neck). Poking a hole in your trachea really won't help very much.

Then there is the hypervolemia that results from all your blood vessels getting leaky. What this means is that you run out of blood volume because your capillaries and other blood vessels leaked nearly all the fluid out of your blood. As you might imagine, this has some really undesirable side effects, not the least of which is dying.

An epipen gives you a nice shot of epinephrine, which mostly fixes the leakiness of your blood vessels. If you survive long enough, everything comes back into balance and you are ok. A muscle injection of 30mg of epinephrine takes 16 minutes to reach maximum blood plasma levels. How long did you say you can hold your breath?

 

[pdqdl]

Speaking of epipens, they are stupidly expensive. An adult version has .30mg [fixed!] of epinephrine, and costs around $300.00 (or more). A common bottle of epinephrine is less than $10, and diabetic syringes are easily acquired to do the job correctly.

That is where your medical dollars go, folks: profits to the medical providers.

 

[futbalfantic]

30mg of epi?!?!? The dose is 0.3 mg. Giving someone an injection of epinephrine who is not in anaphylactic shock can be just as fatal as anaphylactic shock it's self. Epi is EXTREMELY hard on the heart and by the very nature of it's self can cause a MI (heart attack). I do not condone nor do I recommend giving an epipen to an individual whom it is not prescribed for but if I were it would be someone who was stung, has hives on a part of the body not effected by a sting (in the case of a single sting), trouble breathing (see bronco-spasam below), and is sweating/feeling faint.

The problem with anaphylactic shock is a systemic (over the entire body) release of histamine. Histamine causes the blood vessels to dialate which in turn lowers your blood pressure to a dangerous level, depriving your brain of oxygen. Extreme and sudden drop in blood pressure causes you to have cold sweats and makes you feel weak, dizzy, lightheaded, faint, and eventually pass out.

Bronco-spasam is the narrowing of the lower parts of the airway. (the bronchi and lower). This is the same thing as an asthma attack. Wheezing, when bad, can be heard from a few feet away, and I'm sure there is a YouTube video out there that has it on there.

Definitive care is a must if you have an anaphylactic reaction. The venom from the sting will out last any supply of Epipens that you carry with you. Reactions can last hours depending on the severity and susceptibility.

That is all, back to lurking

 

[pdqdl]

Oops. :taped: That's what happens when you run on memory. At this point, I'm not sure if that was a memory lapse or just a typo.

Looks like I was off by a couple of decimal points. I'm not allergic to the bees, so I don't have any epipens to read the label on. If any of you fellows has a bottle of epinephrine and a syringe sitting around, be sure to not to make the same mistake I did.

You seem pretty knowledgeable on this stuff. Thanks for fixing my error. :msp_thumbup:

Yes, you are right on the histamines and all the rest. That was a rather nice explanation you put up. I was simplifying the conversation for folks that don't have any physiology in their background. Dilation is not really a sufficient description of the problem, the blood vessels actually loose enough water/lymph/plasma that the blood volume is significantly reduced. Hypovolemia is a bigger problem than just "dilation". "Leaky" blood vessels seemed like the best expression for the problem.

In my recent foray into anaphylaxis, I was unable to determine why bronchospasm is so strongly associated with anaphylactic shock when all the similar smooth muscles in the blood vessels are relaxing. You would think that the smooth muscles in the bronchioles would behave the same, but they don't. Increasing blood flow makes sense, from a healing perspective, but cutting off the oxygen makes no sense from a survival perspective. I wonder what the reason for that is?

 

[lone wolf]

I have never been prescribed one, so maybe I'm ok in that department. The swelling is going down, so thanks for the honey suggestion. I covered my arm in it and wrapped a towel around it so I didn't get everything sticky. It is still sore, but the swelling is down. I can even make a fist.

Then you are allergic and should be careful not to get stung by more than one or two. Maybe get an epi pen.

 

[pdqdl]

Damn good suggestion!

I would be having a funeral if my employee had been very far from the fire station where the EMT's were at. The people at the pharmacy were just going to watch him die right there, even though he was gasping for an epipen when he got to their counter.

He called his wife and made final goodbyes as he was racing to the pharmacy, so he knew he had a big problem.

 

[lone wolf]

Damn good suggestion!

I would be having a funeral if my employee had been very far from the fire station where the EMT's were at. The people at the pharmacy were just going to watch him die right there, even though he was gasping for an epipen when he got to their counter.

He called his wife and made final goodbyes as he was racing to the pharmacy, so he knew he had a big problem.

Stupid pharmacy was worried they would get sued if they gave it to him I guess!

 

[pdqdl]

I got stung again yesterday. paper wasp got me in the left cheek. I remembered right away what you guys told me to do and put liquid soap on it, then hydrogen peroxide, then gas, then peroxide again. Then some hydrocortisone and took some benadryl. My wife said a prayer for me not to swell up.:msp_thumbup: There is only VERY minimal swelling. Barely noticeable, just a light puffing around the sting. The lady at walgreens thought it was funny when I told her all the things I put on it.:hmm3grin2orange:

That's just crazy; I'm with the lady at Walgreens on that one.

Take the benadryl first, then relax some. Make sure that you are not too far from a phone and be alert for worse signs. Liquid soap will have no affect on any sting, but it might serve to mask the attack pheromones for the insects that stung you. Hydrogen peroxide is a very limited antibacterial agent that will have no affect whatsoever on a sting. It won't even be effective on reducing infections because the bees are using a very tiny hypodermic needle. Hydrogen peroxide will just be bubbling on the surface of your skin. Gasoline, if properly applied, can assure that you will need to go to the hospital. If properly applied to the bees, it will dramatically reduce the number of stings they can deliver.

There are a lot of home remedies that are often suggested for common injuries. Many of them are just pointless or of questionable merit. For stings, I always wondered about the ever popular baking soda poultice. I just don't see how that would help, either.

 

[lone wolf]

Ice is the only thing that really helps! Put a cold compress on the swollen area and rest for a day or two.

 

[pdqdl]

Stupid pharmacy was worried they would get sued if they gave it to him I guess!

I'm sure that was it; probably a "policy" that employees are rigidly trained to never break. I wonder how much money a good lawyer would get from them for letting someone die on the floor at their pharmacy counter, while begging for the cure?

 

[lone wolf]

I'm sure that was it; probably a "policy" that employees are rigidly trained to never break. I wonder how much money a good lawyer would get from them for letting someone die on the floor at their pharmacy counter, while begging for the cure?

I would have let him take it from me no fault of mine:msp_rolleyes:

 

[futbalfantic]

If the pharmacy gave him an epipen they would go to jail and the pharmacist would lose there $150k/yr+ license/salary. That is prescribing medication, truth of the matter but unfortunate.

As far as the bronco spasam and smooth muscle dilation. The receptors in the lungs are the opposite of the body. The sympathetic (fight or flight, epi receptors) tighten the blood vessels down, make the heart beat faster and harder, and *open up the lungs to allow more air in and out.* The parasympathetic does the exact opposite which is where the wheezing comes in.

As for as the "leaky" vessels go. It's two fold. The leaking it's self which causes hypovolemia but you also get relative hypovolemia with vessel dilation.

 

[pdqdl]

It might be a state licensing violation, but I don't think you could possibly go to jail for doing emergency treatments. "Practicing medicine without a license" is the sort of charge that is saved for folks that are doing quasi-medical treatments for money that don't have a license, or perhaps the blatant frauds that are pretending to be doctors.

If I was the pharmacist, I am pretty certain that I would have taken some action, damn the remote chance of legal complications. Life endows us with opportunities to do good things, and I would never shrink from saving somebodies life because I didn't have a license to stick them with an epipen.

Besides, I'll bet the average pharmacist knows way more about epipen usage than the average paramedic. Those guys have to study up extensively on all the medicines that they dispense.

 

[futbalfantic]

Yes a pharm knows the drugs. Just not quite when to use them

 

[magictoad]

Well there are many considerations...sounds like he is at risk of future shock reactions and the onset of symptoms could happen much faster next time. My doc said 5-15 min is the norm for a fast reaction. Some times two hours can pass before the shock reaction begins. I was told that 2.5 min. Is very rare for that severe of a reaction to set in. I have since heard stories of guys that drop even faster...so fast that they can't self administer an epipen in time. Two steps after a sting and they are on the ground, unresponsive, and in seizure. I recommend you carry epipens, 2-4 of them at least. Have your staff get trained and certified to administer. These do no harm... No reason why everyone shouldn't carry 'em. Mountain biker died here locally same day as my reaction. He knew he was allergic, but didnt have pens on him. Got stung, didnt get help in time. I feel like I don't want to put my body through that experience again anytime soon. They had to O.D. me to stabilize me and my heart reacted to the drugs and it got tense in the E.R. For a bit while they dealt with that. I also feel for my coworkers. If I return to work they will have the responsibility of perhaps dealing with me having an anaphactic shock reaction the next time I'm stung. I feel like its a lot to ask. It could be said that it is a distraction to the crew. And perhaps puts others at risk of injury due to the distraction that my predicament may cause. Pondering......

Get yourself some antihistamine pills from your Dr. not the ones you can buy over the counter, take them as you set of for work or at least 1 hour before you start work, carry a couple of epi pens and the antihistamine pills and get back to work, you stand a good chance of being stung no matter what you do in life so you may as well carry on doing what you love.
As the Land Rover fraternity say here in the UK "One life live it" you are a long time dead.