Best plan for 5 Eastern White Pines

[dblack]

Hey guys. I am a student at Virginia Tech studying urban forestry. I also do some tree work on the side, within my comfort zone. I have a friend with a group of EWPs in close proximity to her house. They were planted to be a wind break, about 35 years ago and they have good root flare. Currently, two of the trees have the top broken out. There have been some occasions of branches breaking under wind stress(because of maturity?). I don't have enough experience to make an educated decision about what is best for the trees. My friend is concerned that the trees will fall and hit the house, and knowing how brittle EWP is, i'm not sure if that has a large or small likely hood. I definitely have enough experience to climb and remove them but do not want to if the trees are healthy enough to stay. The first and second picture show the trees in relation to the house. The third picture shows the slight lean they have and one of the other pines (spar) that has broken off previously. The 4th picture shows the crown of the ones with the most lean(that are selected to possibly be removed). The last picture is the 5 EWPs that are up for removal and being discussed. Is the lean towards the house that they currently have caused by wind or improper bracing when they were young? Whether to leave them all, trim them, take one, or all five, I am in need of your alls help as to what's best. If it is too hard to make an educated guess by looking at the pictures, I understand. Thanks ahead for any replies.

 

[Marine5068]

Beautiful property by the way.
Are the prevailing winds coming from their direction?
As an Architectural Engineer, I would say that those were planted way too close to the house for a windbreak, knowing the species characteristics and mature size.
I know that doesn't help, but is just my professional opinion.
That tree species is a traditionally common one here in Ontario, Canada and can grow over 100 years old and 100 feet tall.
Looks like yours are on a bit of a knoll on the downward side of the slope which isn't bad, but seeing that their mature size will be significantly tall, I would have planted them at least at the back side of that barn/woodshed to make them a more effective wind break when they were mature.
I see some other juvenile Pines behind them some. They look good and healthy.
You can remove them if you're not feeling that they are a safe distance from the dwelling.
I would be contemplating it myself if it were my property.
Plus there's lots of nice pine boards in those five White Pines. Mill them if you do drop them.

 

[Pelorus]

Waiting until one of them inevitably crunches the house will make deciding what to do with the remaining ones much easier. Waiting will let the trees become bigger and less expensive to deal with as a jumble of landscapers /roofers / property maintenance contractors offering "tree service" compete in a race to the financial bottom.
Yeah, there is lots of super knotful lumber in those trees, and mebbe some metal too, if you're really lucky.

 

[Pelorus]

Might be helpful to determine your friend's level of risk tolerance / aversion.
And her property insurance deductible, and whether her insurance coverage includes just the removal of the tree off the house (the one that shears / uproots and falls on it) or a complete removal of said tree.

 

[Marine5068]

Ya, but you can't claim much when you're dead or dying with no place to live.
Mills have metal detectors and professional Arborists know how to remove trees and have insurance.....I assume.

 

[Del_]

They look fine to me and plenty far enough away from the house to not worry about them.

I'd keep them for sure.

 

[Pelorus]

No commercial mill would want those trees.

 

[Marine5068]

No commercial mill would want those trees.

Weird to say.
All of our mills take any large White Pines you'll give them....It's choice wood and rare out East.
If you read any history of how America was built then you'll know what I mean.
Most of the very first cities were built with White Pines and spruce from Ontario, Quebec and Up state New York, New Hampshire, Maine Vermont...etc.
I'm talking about New York City , Boston, Philly, and Chicago.

 

[Pelorus]

Weird? I used to work at a local mill. (Muskoka Timber Mill in Bracebridge, Ontario). Ran the loader and debarker.
1. The trees can reasonably be "assumed" to contain hardware since they are in close proximity to house.
2. Going by last photo (red dots), those trees are weeds. Many limbs that are close to the ground. Low grade crap.
Choice wood....... Madoc, eh?

 

[ATH]

Hello fellow Hokie! (I graduated in '98)

I don't see anything terribly concerning in those pictures. It looks like that maple (?) would catch a falling tree for one. If you look at the larger root flare on the back side of the lean, you can see that the lean is not "new", the trees have adapted to it. Kinda looks like the lean is phototropism - leaning away from the Norway spruce. Another thing to look for (that doesn't show in these pictures) is whether the top 15-20' of the tree is pointing straight up. If it is, that tells you that the trees are not being pushed that way.

Next - again not showing in the picture - are there bad forks in the tops of the trees? These areas are significantly more prone to failure in ice and wind. If there are, can they be pruned out? Sometimes they can, other times it leaves the tree looking terrible.

Having said all of that: a few years ago a lady had me evaluate a 24" Norway spruce that had some pretty good lean to it - towards her neighbors and it was making him nervous. The lean was due to a tree that was previously near it. It had huge compensating roots, meaning it was that way for a long time. The top 1/2 of the tree was straight up confirming that the lower part of the trunk had that lean for decades and it wasn't going anywhere. She had me back a year or two later to look at it again. Both times I measured the lean and documented it had not changed. Then one day I noticed it was gone. Thought to myself "funny you pay for a professional opinion 2 times and still decide to cut it down". Well, she had me back out yesterday to look at a couple of other trees, so we talked about the spruce... the top snapped out when we had 100mph winds 3 years ago (and landed on her neighbor's cars). At least I was right about not having to worry about it being uprooted!!!

If you jump to remove every tree that might could pose any kind of risk, we wouldn't have very many trees left.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

From the pics, the only thing that should be nervous is the gutter. As far as value, 5 logs off a residential site have no value. Even if a mill would take them, and most wont, it won't pay for the labor to get them there.

 

[Carburetorless]

I hope you have a chipper.