Best Rigging Rope For Natural/False Crotch, Pulling Trees Over, Tag Lines? 3 Strand?

[ApexTreeService]

Started out using rock climbing static kernmantle back in 2002 when I was new. The core provides the strength, while the cover provides the protection. Works perfect. You can beat on that rope all day, and the cover laughs at you. Mean while the core is untouched. Recently, been pulling over large trees with vehicles. This rope is too stretchy (nylon core). Started using stable braid. Awesome for pull lines. Problem is, it gets beat up FAST with bark contact. Even just sending a running bow line up over a limb to girth it off. Found a hank of Arbor-Plex 1/2" for $38 at surplus store, so put that in the kit. Just a few uses, 'furring' up, but also quit a bit of wear in my opinion for a few light uses.

Thinking of going old school 3 strand Samson 5/8" Tree Master 12,900lbs and 600' for $360 at my door! Samson says extremely durable, excellent abrasion resistance, economical, very strong, maximum wear life.

Can anyone talk me out of this or suggest a better product? Maybe it hockles, twists, too stretchy?

Main uses: Tag line, pulling over trees, natural crotch, works with blocks too. All around rope. I still have the Polydyne nylon core double braid for large dynamic.

 

[ApexTreeService]

Consider why you are thinking of moving in the opposite direction that experience takes most professional arborist.

Modern ropes, blocks and friction devices are a huge step forward. Most of what you are complaining about is the result of rope abuse.

I agree, I use blocks, double braid rope, and lowering devices. On the other hand, I am looking for the best rope for natural crotch rigging, setting tag lines from the ground (running bowline), basically a rope that will run over bark all day, be strong, have little to a medium stretch, last a long time, have a high breaking strength, and work wet. Two ropes I've found. 3 strand Arbor Master, and Sterling HTP.

 

[Pelorus]

BlueStreak holds up really well to natural crotch rigging.

 

[ApexTreeService]

BlueStreak holds up really well to natural crotch rigging.

I know, but only 8,000lbs or so. I would like a rope, I can tie to a back leaner weighing 9,000lbs, pull it over, and stay within the 20% WLL, yet run over the bark all day.

 

[Pelorus]

The Lilliputians used some pretty small ropes to restrain ole Lemuel. Use a 3:1 or 4:1 or greater pulley system on your back leaners. Better still, use two ropes. Largest dia. rope in my inventory is 5/8 Stable braid, but I use 1/2' Blue Streak day in and day out for probably 90% of the removals I do.

 

[ApexTreeService]

The Lilliputians used some pretty small ropes to restrain ole Lemuel. Use a 3:1 or 4:1 or greater pulley system on your back leaners. Better still, use two ropes. Largest dia. rope in my inventory is 5/8 Stable braid, but I use 1/2' Blue Streak day in and day out for probably 90% of the removals I do.

I would also like to account for residual rope strength, and knots. A knot will take 30%, wear and tear over a few months who knows how much. Now, you have a back leaner, and on the same hand you don't want to exceed 20% the break strength so as not to exceed wll and overly stress the rope. Pulley is fine, but the final single rope going to the tree has to be rated. Last pull, I used both ends of 10,000 stable braid, over hook. 20,000lbs, minus rope wear, running bowline on limbs, and bend over truck hook. Handled it no prob.

But..., was queasy about wear on rope running it up over limb with running bowline. I need something tough!

 

[ApexTreeService]

The Lilliputians used some pretty small ropes to restrain ole Lemuel. Use a 3:1 or 4:1 or greater pulley system on your back leaners. Better still, use two ropes. Largest dia. rope in my inventory is 5/8 Stable braid, but I use 1/2' Blue Streak day in and day out for probably 90% of the removals I do.

I know Blue Streak is awsome. But..., I want something I can hook to top of 10,000lb elm and pull over. After full day of lowering other trees. Blue Streak is strong, but would you trust it to pull over 10,000 against tree over house? It would do it, but, what risk? Now let's compare price. 600', 12,900lbs, extreme abrasion resistance, for $360 can any line match that?

 

[Pelorus]

you don't want to exceed 20% the break strength so as not to exceed wll and overly stress the rope. QUOTE]

Going to 50% of the break strength is still gonna give you +/- 100 cycles to failure. Mebbe less; mebbe more; mebbe a lot more. I haven't got the inclination or disposition to keep a log of how many times I applied such and such a load to a rope. If it is starting to look ratty, it gets relegated to tag line duty.

 

[ckliff]

That 5/8 3-strand is more difficult to tie good knots. I really like it for my lanyard though. It is easy to splice.

 

[2treeornot2tree]

You can get a static kernmantle rope like used in the fire service. 10000 lb mbs. I use a piece of 1/2" alot for natural crotch, even after alot of use it doesnt show much wear. Only bad thing is that it is a stiffer rope, so you have to make sure you set your knots good. You should be able to get it from any place that sells rescue ropes. You can even get it in 5/8"

Here is the specs and discription of the rope rescue source sells:

1/2" New England KM III Static Kernmantle Rope - 150 Feet

New England KM III Static Kernmantle rope features a composite construction of nylon and polyester fibers, providing an excellent line for rescue operations. KM III provides high tensile strength and low stretch, with good heat, chemical and abrasion resistance. The rope is torque-balanced for no spin when rappelling. It is a balanced construction, with the cover and core each representing 50% of the total weight. The cover is made of continuous filament polyester, braided over a continuous filament nylon core. This provides excellent handling and knot-holding characteristics, as well as rugged protection from abrasion and cutting.

Construction: Block creel, low-stretch (static) kernmantle construction.

Made in the USA

Fiber: The core is 100% nylon and the sheath is 100% polyester.

Sheath: Braided polyester jacket, 32 carrier, two-over- two construction with half of the strands having a Z-twist and half having an S-twist

Elongation: 1/2" - 3% at 450 lbs.

Temperature: Melt point 480 degree F (248 degrees C) Certification: UL Classified to current NFPA standards,CE approved to prEN 1891

Tensile strength:10,000 lbs.(44kN)

 

[treeman75]

I know Blue Streak is awsome. But..., I want something I can hook to top of 10,000lb elm and pull over. After full day of lowering other trees. Blue Streak is strong, but would you trust it to pull over 10,000 against tree over house? It would do it, but, what risk? Now let's compare price. 600', 12,900lbs, extreme abrasion resistance, for $360 can any line match that?

Where are you getting it for 360?

 

[Seemlessstate]

Yale Dynasorb, or as I call is "dinosaur" is great stuff. It is some of the best rope to tie knots with that I've used. very resistant to abrasion, and is pretty stout stuff. 5/8 is rated at 18,000 and 1/2 is 10,500.

it does have some stretch to it, as i guess it was kind of designed to snatch big logs. not much more than stable braid.

I've been really impressed with the stuff. I have used all sorts of lines, mostly stable braid for rigging, but its been working great.

 

[no tree to big]

we were given a couple of those 3 strand ropes as replacements to our wore out double braids I hate um they twist up real bad. when your trying to let something run through the porty and you get a handful of twist it can try and rip your pinky off or if that makes it through your hand and slams into the porty well it stops and if you need it to run because your say playing the swing on a piece well that sucks cause now its swinging back into the obsticle

 

[ApexTreeService]

Where are you getting it for 360?

Wes Spur is having a black friday sale all weekend. 20% off one item. $440 retail.

I agree with the above post that static kernmantle is an excellent rope. I started off using that for many years. I'm also trying to figure out the most economical choice for a general purpose. If I bought a spool of 5/8 Tree Master for $360, that gives me 3x200' at $120 each. Or 4x150' at $90 each. That's pretty cheap.

If cost were not an issue, I would definately go with Sterling 1/2" HTP static kernmantle. 9,000lb, and lower stretch (tag line, pull line) than other kernmantles-2% at 10%MBS. Plus, you can choose from 7 different colors so you could for instance get red to signify not a life line, etc. A 600' spool of that is $684. Almost double.

Not sure if I am going to get the Tree Master now after a few comments about poor knotability, and twisting problems. Any old timers out there that still use it and like it after it's broken in?

 

[cftc09]

I agree, I use blocks, double braid rope, and lowering devices. On the other hand, I am looking for the best rope for natural crotch rigging, setting tag lines from the ground (running bowline), basically a rope that will run over bark all day, be strong, have little to a medium stretch, last a long time, have a high breaking strength, and work wet. Two ropes I've found. 3 strand Arbor Master, and Sterling HTP.

I wouldn't run a natural rigging system. We use blocks all the time it's less stress on the rope, and the guy handling rope. Now for a rope that'll do pratically anything you want I run the Yale Bull Rigger Line 5/8 on sherrilltree,it'll pull anything and handle just about anything that you'll put on ur rigging system. Yale Bull Rigger 16mm Rope : SherrillTree Tree Care Equipment Hope this helps.

 

[ApexTreeService]

I wouldn't run a natural rigging system. We use blocks all the time it's less stress on the rope, and the guy handling rope. Now for a rope that'll do pratically anything you want I run the Yale Bull Rigger Line 5/8 on sherrilltree,it'll pull anything and handle just about anything that you'll put on ur rigging system. Yale Bull Rigger 16mm Rope : SherrillTree Tree Care Equipment Hope this helps.

How well does it wear though? I know the braid is really loose. I can get a 600' 5/8 spool of it for $290, with a free RopeBos 250 rope bag. That's after they do their price buster math against BaileysOnline pricing ($360). My other choice would be Yale's orange Buzz Line (Yales version of TrueBlue), 1/2", 7,400lbx600' for $348.

 

[chief116]

I know Blue Streak is awsome. But..., I want something I can hook to top of 10,000lb elm and pull over. After full day of lowering other trees. Blue Streak is strong, but would you trust it to pull over 10,000 against tree over house? It would do it, but, what risk? Now let's compare price. 600', 12,900lbs, extreme abrasion resistance, for $360 can any line match that?

Whats more important to you, price or quality? if you are trusting the cheapest piece of #### rope you can get free shipping on to pull over a 10,000 lb elm tree, you're a moron. Don't be a fraid to pay a little bit more for a good, quality rope. I've used blue streak to do some incredibly stupid rigging and it has never let me down. Have i snapped it? yup (pulling a standing 40ft oak butt against its lean with an f350), but I was pushing the limits of a hank of rope that gave me all it had to offer.

 

[ApexTreeService]

Whats more important to you, price or quality? if you are trusting the cheapest piece of #### rope you can get free shipping on to pull over a 10,000 lb elm tree, you're a moron. Don't be a fraid to pay a little bit more for a good, quality rope. I've used blue streak to do some incredibly stupid rigging and it has never let me down. Have i snapped it? yup (pulling a standing 40ft oak butt against its lean with an f350), but I was pushing the limits of a hank of rope that gave me all it had to offer.

No I'm not talking about rope made in China, everything I have mention is all high quality. Guess I'm just sick of my double braids taking a beating if bark so much as looks at them. You have to fishing pole it up the trunk so it doesn't run on bark, cut the ends off after so much knot tying/lowering with a half hitch/running bowline. Really I'm just wondering if the Samson 3 strand Tree Master is a pain or not. With exceptional abrasion resistance, and 12,900 MBS, it would be good as a pull line, tag line, natural rigging where it would be quicker to lower light limbs off other limbs as opposed to breaking out all the gear.

 

[ApexTreeService]

Got some answers from Yale today. 5/8 Bull Rigger (XTC12) is a 'good' rope (out of good, better, best), and price point (economical). It does have polypropylene core that the polyester fibers are wrapped around. Polypropylene has a low melting point, so the rope will glaze (surface fibers melt) if lowering at mach speed or high friction. Nonetheless, made by Yale, so highest quality fibers. It is a loose braid 12 strand construction, so if maximum abrasion resistance and life is needed they recommend XTC 16 strand. Very durable all polyester 16 strand braid over a core of polyester fibers. They said Davey Tree uses 9/16" due to increased service life over 1/2". He said other companies use 5/8" for an all around rope, even the heavy rigging. 9/16" is rated at 7800lb, and 5/8" is rated at 10,000. This would be a nice line to run even to replace the double braid because you could natural crotch it for small stuff and still run the PortO.

I guess the point of the thread is what is the most ECONOMICAL, abrasion resistant, strongest rope with good manners. Tree Master 3 strand seemed like the logical choice with 12,900MBS at 5/8", hard lay, and only ~ $350 for 600'. I'm sure the 5/8" 16 strand is perfect, but, with premium prices.

 

[Pelorus]

10,000 lb tensile @ 5/8" dia sucks when 1/2" Blue Streak is 8100lb.
I think you should buy a decent 5/8" double braid, forget about wrecking it on natural crotch abuse.
For a supposedly educated smart guy, you are coming across as being pretty dumb here. Just sayin'