Best Rigging Rope For Natural/False Crotch, Pulling Trees Over, Tag Lines? 3 Strand?

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10,000 lb tensile @ 5/8" dia sucks when 1/2" Blue Streak is 8100lb.
I think you should buy a decent 5/8" double braid, forget about wrecking it on natural crotch abuse.
For a supposedly educated smart guy, you are coming across as being pretty dumb here. Just sayin'

That's what thinkers do, over think. Blue Streak is also only available in 8,100. I'm talking about 10,000 +. I know I can get a Husky 5/8" nylon core double braid rope 18,000 lbs. Problems with that..., uneven load between core and cover from natural crotch friction can lead to unexpected failure. Rapid abrasion degradation. High cost. Heavy rope. The point of the thread is to explore ECONOMICAL, high abrasion resistant (long lasting), and strong rope. Hard lay 3 strand from Samson is 12,900lbs strong, and very abrasion resistant, and cheaper than any other option.

Just wondering if 3 strand is ok to work with. Guess I'll get a hank only, and try it out.

I'm not looking for my main rigging line. I have Stable Braids, Polydynes, and an Arbor Plex I just started out using. Just exploring new options for an economical long life rope.

Thanks for the compliment ;)
 
10,000 lb tensile @ 5/8" dia sucks when 1/2" Blue Streak is 8100lb.
I think you should buy a decent 5/8" double braid, forget about wrecking it on natural crotch abuse.
For a supposedly educated smart guy, you are coming across as being pretty dumb here. Just sayin'

I guess Davey Tree is pretty dumb for using this exact same rigging line? Blue Streak is great, but high in cost.
 
You can work the crap out of thick 3 strand and it will work the crap out of you. Its good " slop" rope and its good to have around.
 
I guess Davey Tree is pretty dumb for using this exact same rigging line? Blue Streak is great, but high in cost.

Why the requirement for natural crotch rigging of loads requiring a 10,000 + lb rope? I try to limit such lowering to lower weight stuff cause I care about my rigging. Guess I need to re-read this entire thread to see if it can make sense tyhe second time round.
 
Why the requirement for natural crotch rigging of loads requiring a 10,000 + lb rope? I try to limit such lowering to lower weight stuff cause I care about my rigging. Guess I need to re-read this entire thread to see if it can make sense tyhe second time round.

Yes, re-read. Natural crotch few hundred pound limbs down, but be an all around rope for sending a running bowline up to a crotch I have set with my throwline for pulling over trees leaning over targets. All the while being cheap, and abrasion proof. I have been using my Stable Braid for pulling, but just the act of sending it up via running bowline via ground tears the sheath up pretty bad. I know you can sacrifice the double braids, but I like to be easy on my equipment and spend less $.
 
Yes, re-read. Natural crotch few hundred pound limbs down, but be an all around rope for sending a running bowline up to a crotch I have set with my throwline for pulling over trees leaning over targets. All the while being cheap, and abrasion proof. I have been using my Stable Braid for pulling, but just the act of sending it up via running bowline via ground tears the sheath up pretty bad. I know you can sacrifice the double braids, but I like to be easy on my equipment and spend less $.

Makes sense now. And here I thought you were just being a cheap bozo! My bad.
I agree the Stable Braid gets quickly chewed up running over rough bark. Been there; done that.
Wouldn't a static kernmantle (mentioned by another poster) best suit your specs?
 
To be honest I have only been in the residential tree service for 10 years, and been using static kenmantle rope for lowering (even with the port) until 2008 or so. Then bought the double braids, and very surprised at how sensitive they are to abrasion! So I'm use to a rope that is rugged enough for rock climbing, but with excellent energy absorption properties. Draw backs: Work hardens due to cover milking back and forth, poor knotability, and not splicable.

I am not use to lowering one branch and seeing my rope tore up from that one run cause I natural crotched it or it rubbed the trunk somewhere. I have a PMI Classis EZ bend static kernmantle that is 4 years old with negligible cover wear after doing anything I want to it.
 
My rope works real well. The only reason we had to replace it was cause somone was stupid and broke it at hurricane gustav. If you aint goin bull rigger I'd go sixteen strand. Also I'd look at copying sherrill trees knotless rigging kit. Thats what we've done and it saves a ton of time and makes the small stuff easy, real easy. But thats my opinion.
 
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Knotless is the way to go for me, sometimes you can send 3-4 down at once or have 3-4 more ready to go while the rope is coming back up.
 
Knotless is the way to go for me, sometimes you can send 3-4 down at once or have 3-4 more ready to go while the rope is coming back up.

Not only can you send 3-4 but its pretty quick seting up the porty or while the guyis undoing the straps on the ground the guy in the treecan be putting straps on another set branches. But yes knotless is the way to go I've been running it for two years now.
 
Guess the point of the thread has been side tracked. Thanks for all the advice. I do use knot-less rigging, runner loops to girth hitch 4 small limbs at a time, I do use port o wraps and tailboard blocks. I also will isolate a 4"-6" crotch at the top of the tree with my throw line and use that to lower the whole tree without having to set a false removable crotch from the ground, or climb to the top to place the block. Here's a good scenario. Let's say you have a 45' Colorado Spruce to remove. 2,3, maybe 4" diameter limbs at the bottom, next to the house. You don't want the butt end of these to bust a window, so you lower it all. Now, your not going to climb to the top through very thick canopy to set a block to save friction are you? I'm going to toss my throw line over the entire top. Drag my lowering line up and over, and go to work with my running end while the friction through all the canopy will lower few hundred pound limbs just fine. If I want to girth hitch 4 or 5 limbs with runner loops as the limbs get smaller then fine. Friction on lowering line can be increased by running through the port o at the bottom. Still natural crotching at the top. Are you going to run your precious 'double braids' time and time again 'natural crotch' lowering (with or without) the port? No. You want to use the most affordable, abrasion resistant lowering line you can. Double braids are good ropes, but not the best choice for tree service due to their sensitive cover (the mantle). They weren't even designed for tree service. Did you know the energy absorbing Polydyne nylon core polyester sheath double braid from Yale was in in service 30+ years ago mooring boats to docks?

Looks like a few choices. 16 strand for great abrasion. 12 strand such as TrueBlue or Buzz are almost as good for abrasion, but may be more economical (Buzz) than 16 strand. Either way, still expensive. My original question: I have never used three strand, it's cheap and tough. Wondering if it works well. Sounds like it hockles, twists with port use, etc., so maybe not a good choice.

So what is the best all around that will save time and $? I think like Yale Cordage said it would be the 9/16" or 5/8" climbing line XTC16. Not as strong as a double braid polyester, but much more energy absorbing (like a spring), and much more resistant to abrasion. I run my ropes over bark all the time in many different scenarios. Double braid sailing rope is just not abrasion resistant at all. We need an industry designed rigging rope. Much like a static kernmantle rescue rope (very tough mantle, load bearing core), but with a more knotable core twist/cover braid, low stretch at loads up to 10% for efficient pulling/lifting, yet still good ultimate energy absorbing characteristics for the dynamic loads. Steam stabilized yarn so the cover doesn't work harden over time and you end up with an unknotable wire rope. Non milking as well. Preferably all polyester so it doesn't weaken when wet like nylon (storm damage cleanup) or glaze like poly-olefin. Bright color for safety and quick diameter identification. Non rotational, non hockling.

I run ropes over bark all the time. If I have one limb 10' up were removing cause it's too low or something, and the tree species has thick bark, I will natural rig it for speed sake (in back yard away from your cozy bucket truck). First toss throw line over higher limb. Pull rigging rope over. Next, toss throw line over limb to be removed. Pull working end of lowering line over limb to be removed, but keep hold of lowering rope so that when you get the working end you can tie a running bowline around it. Now, take a half wrap around the tree, reach up with motorized pole saw, cut the limb and finish with proper cut for the stub. Now wasn't that faster than setting your climbing line, getting out your climbing gear, installing a block after you climb up to the rigging point, cow hitching the port o, getting the lowering line, clipping on your climbing saw, etc.? I used one rope, a throwline, and my pole saw. Many reasons not to use a double braid and a port.
 
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Let's say you have a 45' Colorado Spruce to remove. 2,3, maybe 4" diameter limbs at the bottom, next to the house. You don't want the butt end of these to bust a window, so you lower it all. Now, your not going to climb to the top through very thick canopy to set a block to save friction are you? I'm going to toss my throw line over the entire top. Drag my lowering line up and over, and go to work with my running end while the friction through all the canopy will lower few hundred pound limbs just fine. If I want to girth hitch 4 or 5 limbs with runner loops as the limbs get smaller then fine. Friction on lowering line can be increased by running through the port o at the bottom. Still natural crotching at the top. Are you going to run your precious 'double braids' time and time again 'natural crotch' lowering (with or without) the port? .

My answer: Yes. Your 45" Colorado shrub is an absolutely perfect match for Blue Streak. It's like they were made for each other, and the relationship will last for a long time with very little detriment to the rope.
btw, why are you even bothering with a throwline for that scenario? Lower the limbs using the next set (or two, or three) above the ones getting lowered. It just sounds like you have far more "theory" than actual real world "practice", and I think your rock climbing background may be an actual handicap to common sense tree work.
 
My answer: Yes. Your 45" Colorado shrub is an absolutely perfect match for Blue Streak. It's like they were made for each other, and the relationship will last for a long time with very little detriment to the rope.
btw, why are you even bothering with a throwline for that scenario? Lower the limbs using the next set (or two, or three) above the ones getting lowered. It just sounds like you have far more "theory" than actual real world "practice", and I think your rock climbing background may be an actual handicap to common sense tree work.

I have found it quicker to set the lowering line once, than to constantly reroute it over the one above it, the one above it, the one above it, the one above it....

I can do any job you can safer and faster, I will bet my life on it so shut your ass up. If you don't have anything positive, then go back to your lame life. It's not always the 100' trees. And when it is, guess what, call in the crane redneck. You even know what polyester is..., or where your rope came from? How is your rope braided?? Yeah, I do 45' shrubs all day every day. That's what I do. Blue Spruce LLC. Yeah, you guessed it. Let me guess, you only do 1000' Avatars, right?
 
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My answer: Yes. Your 45" Colorado shrub is an absolutely perfect match for Blue Streak. It's like they were made for each other, and the relationship will last for a long time with very little detriment to the rope.
btw, why are you even bothering with a throwline for that scenario? Lower the limbs using the next set (or two, or three) above the ones getting lowered. It just sounds like you have far more "theory" than actual real world "practice", and I think your rock climbing background may be an actual handicap to common sense tree work.

Your such an ignorant ####. So you only work on trees 1,000 feet and taller? I trim parkstrip 15' trees, all the way up to how tall a species grow. I made an example, of where one would want to simply use a single line for quick rigging. Actual tree work? What is your experience? Your a lame. You have any credentials? I will out rig, out cut, out think you loser. I invent ####. You, follow me #####. Yeah let's keep redirecting your lowering line over the one above it, the one above it, when I set my lowering line once. You should try some of my techniques. You even know how to set a false removable crotch from the ground? Explain it, and I'll praise you. Do you even know what that is? That's a pulley, girthed around a high limb, with a lowering line in the pulley, and a tag line connected to the pulley so you can retrieve it after you are done--from the ground. Do you know why that might be advantageous???
 
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My answer: Yes. Your 45" Colorado shrub is an absolutely perfect match for Blue Streak. It's like they were made for each other, and the relationship will last for a long time with very little detriment to the rope.
btw, why are you even bothering with a throwline for that scenario? Lower the limbs using the next set (or two, or three) above the ones getting lowered. It just sounds like you have far more "theory" than actual real world "practice", and I think your rock climbing background may be an actual handicap to common sense tree work.

I never said Blue Streak, you ignorant cu##.
Rope jumping. The act of jumping 1000' off a cliff with nothing but static kernmantle and dynamic rock climbing rope to arrest your fall. I think rock climbing is a little ahead of tree climbing. Tree climbing uses all borrowed technologies. Caribiners, rope from boating, tenex from boating, blocks from construction.
 
My answer: Yes. Your 45" Colorado shrub is an absolutely perfect match for Blue Streak. It's like they were made for each other, and the relationship will last for a long time with very little detriment to the rope.
btw, why are you even bothering with a throwline for that scenario? Lower the limbs using the next set (or two, or three) above the ones getting lowered. It just sounds like you have far more "theory" than actual real world "practice", and I think your rock climbing background may be an actual handicap to common sense tree work.

Lets imagine a rigging rope that has appeared from the top of the tree, and will lower every limb until I reach the top. Now, picture your rope. One you have to constantly throw higher just to rig 3, 4 limbs. What is going to be faster? If you see it any other way than mine, you are a cu$# and deserve to be making $12 an hour like you are. Time is $ idiot. No wonder you are Canadian. Fag#ot french.
 
Well if natural rigging three strand is gonna be best choice. I use new England 3 strand many times as I hate to carry blocks and stuff up with me. I however am knotless as it is so much faster. However if making a money cut on a 3k limb I set block and tie a bowline!
 
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Lets imagine a rigging rope that has appeared from the top of the tree, and will lower every limb until I reach the top. Now, picture your rope. One you have to constantly throw higher just to rig 3, 4 limbs. What is going to be faster? If you see it any other way than mine, you are a cu$# and deserve to be making $12 an hour like you are. Time is $ idiot. No wonder you are Canadian. Fag#ot french.

Boy don't want to piss you off. But back on topic, me and every other tree man used three strand 20 years ago for the most part for everything. I just ordered 200' of 1/2''. I use it for lowing branches over natural crotches. It'll ware for ever, Its cheap priced, and so long as you don't exceed the wll it'll last ,same as any other rope. I have no problem tying knots in it. It's easy to splice, I like to splice a snap on one end. I also ordered 200' of 5/8'' husky.($200.00)The 3 strand is for grunt work, that way I save my other,"better," ropes for use with a pulley. You stay with in the working weight of the rope no matter what kind or brand it'll preform well. You can run 3 strand through the mud ,over a big rough limb, and it'll take it. Like treemandan said,"it has its place."
 
I never said Blue Streak, you ignorant cu##.
Rope jumping. The act of jumping 1000' off a cliff with nothing but static kernmantle and dynamic rock climbing rope to arrest your fall. I think rock climbing is a little ahead of tree climbing. Tree climbing uses all borrowed technologies. Caribiners, rope from boating, tenex from boating, blocks from construction.

Not to disappoint you but your in error here, trees been around longer than ships and man had to learn to deal with them before making boats. Moving objects with rope was likely first employed by ancients in the making of pyramids. Tree climbing and rigging has many variable loads and takes time to master. No one just jumps into it from mountain climbing and instantly knows all! I'm not looking to start a fight but just letting you know that downplaying professional tree work is the wrong direction to take here imo.
 
Mr. Apex: your method of dealing with your hypothetical 45' shrub is BS even if it sounds efficient on paper. I think a lot of the other stuff you say you have done is also a load of BS.
btw, 90% of my work consists of removals on spurs, and I've been at it since 1987.
 

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