Best way to move logs- ideas, anyone?

[sawinredneck]

I have one on my truck, it's like an engine hoist, works great for a lot of things, but I can see somebody getting killed using it to lift a log, seen too many round things go wrong!!!
Andy

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

We back a truck up to trailer side and parbuckle up a spar from other side of trailer with parbuckle. Let bight ride thru spread hooks on truck. The spread gives more stability than bight coming to point at hitch; the bight laced thru hooks (instead of tied to them) allows self adjustment by the parbuckle system.

The rope shape gives a force flow of 2/1 ; "U" shape around the spar; like if rope ran thru pulley that dragged spar with 2/1; rope would be in same U shape; thus give 2/1. But; going around spar makes the spar 'walk' up ramp and or/ over side; instead of being dragged by 2/1 pulley.

Parbuckle is generally referred to as a knot; rather than rig for some reason; like for drawing barrels up a ramp onto ship.

i've often thought this pic could be of a parbuckle; perhaps drawn by animals; or by men shown!

 

[Schultzz]

Loading Logs On Trailer

I just bought a flatbed trailer and am toying around with the idea of putting logs on it to move them rather than hiring a log truck. Here are ideas I've had of how to get the on the the trailer. I'm hoping the community has tried and proven (or disproven) some of these or has better ideas. Thanks in advance, guys!

1: Cutting them up and using a log dolly. (I don't know a local place to buy them, though)

2: Using a winch to drag them up. (will the winch bend the frame?)

3: Using some kind of wheeled log-end-holder at one or both ends.

4: Combinations of 2 and 3.

5: Rolling them up the side. (tough for the big ones!)

5: Give up and get a log trailer.

Bought a roller conveyor (salvage) 10 ft $50. Bought new Warn Winch 3700 on Ebay, $239. Anchor winch plate to trailer, use roller conveyor as a ramp,
winch logs up. Depending on length of trailer you might want to use guard rail poles (sideways) to lessen friction, also helps in getting the poles off the ramp. The less friction, (drag), the easy for the winch to pull the logs up.

 

[gumneck]

I just bought a flatbed trailer and am toying around with the idea of putting logs on it to move them rather than hiring a log truck. Here are ideas I've had of how to get the on the the trailer. I'm hoping the community has tried and proven (or disproven) some of these or has better ideas. Thanks in advance, guys!

1: Cutting them up and using a log dolly. (I don't know a local place to buy them, though)

2: Using a winch to drag them up. (will the winch bend the frame?)

3: Using some kind of wheeled log-end-holder at one or both ends.

4: Combinations of 2 and 3.

5: Rolling them up the side. (tough for the big ones!)

5: Give up and get a log trailer.

I have a old rearengine rider frame with the rear wheels still on it. Has held some pretty large wood for me. I put one end of the log on the frame and pick the other end up with a 3pt hitch and move logs where ever I want.

I dont see why you couldn't do similar to load up on your trailer ramps with a winch pulling the front end of log and the rear on some kind of wheeled dolly.

 

[Adkpk]

Lewis winch is a good way to get logs way back in the woods. Baileys has them.
Do a google search for it and check out how they work. I have one, don't use it much but I will verify they work like they say. Wish I had some pics or a video but I don't.

 

[buzz sawyer]

Well, here is what I used to do. Using a half ton Ramcharger, a 6x12 dual axle trailer rated for 7000lbs, a cant hook, four wheel chocks and a chain and a towing strap, I was always able to load whatever logs I ran across when hauling something to the sawmill or taking it back to my place for firewood.

Be warned, this is the cooter method, but it works. First I would line the logs up that were to be dragged onto the trailer. Next the wheels on the trailer would be chocked, and the trailer ramp dropped onto the ground to allow 12 ft. logs to be pulled on (at this point, trailer is disconnected from the truck). Then I would hook chain to the log, then connect chain to the tow strap which in turn would be hooked to a heavy duty D ring on the front bumper of the Ramcharger, which for easier pulling (in reverse) is in four low. Here is the tricky part. The ramp had a 2 inch lip that the log would have to overcome before it could slide up the ramp and onto the trailer. Once it is on the ramp and in the bed of the trailer, the friction coefficient is very minimal, thus making for easy loading. I found the trick to overcoming this two inch lip was to put the truck in reverse, drag the log to the lip of the trailer until it made contact and then add a fair amount of tension. Once the tension is there, get out of the truck, take the cant hook and gently roll the log. It would always, without fail come right over the lip and onto the ramp. Once that part was done, resume pulling until log gets to the front of the trailer.


Using the above method, I was always able to load anywhere between 3 and six logs onto my trailer. So what happens if I needed to load more than 3 to 6 logs? That is where the hi-lift jack comes in! I'll explain if anybody is interested. The above method of log loading comes from doing too many tree jobs by myself and having to be one resourceful S.O.B.

Good description TimberJack. I've used this same method many times with a single axle trailer. Works very well. Can this be done with a double axle?

 

[treemendous]

log hauling

This is something I've thought, talked and worked on a lot.

I've moved logs by hand myself or with help. A log carrier works or two peaveys to give you a good handle and something to lift and push with. The way to go is with a log arch or skidding arch. These can be moved by hand or with winch/ rope etc. There are a few made commercially around $500 and up. I'm still working on mine from an old small utility trailer.

A lewis winch (chainsaw winch) or any other winch can skid logs but it really helps to have some lift for the leading end of the log, hence the log arch. lift can be achieved with a pulley in a tree or a crane or, my original idea a tripod mounted to the front of trailer with a pulley at top.

I bought a pickup truck crane with a hand winch online for $100. mounted that to a steel plate and 2"tubular post to go in post holes of trailer. Two D rings are welded to sides of trailer(frame) and a cable clipped to both. Log is positioned over cable in a "V". the crane winch grabs the cable at the "V" point and when you crank it up the log rolls and lifts up over the tires and onto the deck. I nailed some chocks to prevent the log from going all the way over the otherside and killing me! The cable system also provides some mechanical advantage with lift.

Large logs can be moved this way. The crane can lift smaller logs on its own with the winch and the little hydraulic jack lift. It can then swivel the crane to place on the trailer, but I can use mine on either side, so I use the cable.

I'm spoiled at home and have a backhoe with 4 in 1 front bucket to grab and lift logs, but they could be peaveyed right onto sawmill bunks.

I use a set of lifting tongs when skidding with cables and pulleys, its fast and you don't have to reach under log.

Another method I discovered online was for a trailer with hinged equipment ramps. The ramps were dropped down either side of log and cable attached with choker (I think). Then the log was wiched forward. The ramps with their strong hinges lift the log end up and forward onto the trailer. The picture I saw was of a massive log. Trailer was overloaded of course.

Just be careful, slow is fast. Get a trailer with brakes.

 

[Tree Machine]

I bought a pickup truck crane with a hand winch online for $100. mounted that to a steel plate and 2" tubular post to go in post holes of trailer. Two D rings are welded to sides of trailer(frame) and a cable clipped to both. Log is positioned over cable in a "V". the crane winch grabs the cable at the "V" point and when you crank it up the log rolls and lifts up over the tires and onto the deck. I nailed some chocks to prevent the log from going all the way over the otherside and killing me! The cable system also provides some mechanical advantage with lift.

Large logs can be moved this way. The crane can lift smaller logs on its own with the winch and the little hydraulic jack lift. It can then swivel the crane to place on the trailer, but I can use mine on either side, so I use the cable.

Tell me if I've got you right so far. I think this is brilliant. Which direction does the crane point? How long is the boom arm? what is the pulley attachment at the crane tip like? Can this pic be corrected in any way? it's clear treemendous has multiple excellent ways to move logs and you wouldn't keep employing a method unless it worked better than anything else you could come up with. You just take your excellent system, share it with us, and we can see how to improve upon it further. heh heh.

 

[treemendous]

moving logs

The picture is almost right.

The crane I have is available at many places. Northern tool, Harbor freight, Princess auto. Some have electric winches, mine is hand, like a boat trailer.
I think they all can swivel, but even greased up its a little hard with a log.

I mount my crane to one of the post - holes on the trailer. I only use it in between the tandem wheels not at the front. I use a bolt to pin it and I have a steel plate welded onto the bottom to distribute the load. At its max height it's about six feet, but I use it at a 45 deg angle, controlled by the little hydraulic cyl.

I got the idea from a commercially available a.t.v. trailer, watched the video and modified it.

They also had a big cone thing that would go over the front of the log for smoother skidding with a lewis winch. Never tried that, just use plywood and pvc pipe when I'm in someone's yard.

 

[Tree Machine]

I think I bought one of those for my Dad from Harbor Freight. It was like a hundred twenty five, orange, swivel, bottle jack to raise and lower the arm and an extension boom. A cable boat winch is attached to the crane itself. The whole thing seemed really solid, and i was surprised at this because the price was really, really affordable. His chip trailer needed a floor to be lifted at one end for a box dump to get rid of chips. He had a come-along attached to a bar up above the floor, but he bent it, and the winch hung down into where the chips were coming up.

I got him that crane a few months ago and put it together for him, but he wanted to reinforce the underside of the trailer before he mounts the crane.

Doing a search...... here it is!

 

[smcowboy1974]

Massey Harris 55 Gas tractor

I just hook up a heavy 3/8" chain to the log, and the other end to my Massey Harris 55 tractor. It has 18-4-34 rear tires with chains. Put her in 1st gear and let her go. You can drag out a pretty good sized log, on snow or frozen ground.

 

[PTS]

Recently we worked a large land clearing project for housing development in which customer wanted every sapling to mature tree removed. The project took place on the side of an "Iowa Mountain" (side hill you could barley walk up and down on going down to the river. We had to get it down and up the hill because the customer couldn't wait till winter to take it down hill to the ice so we used a large wrecker to winch it up. The wrecker had two winches on board so while one was coming up the other was going down and hooking the next. I own three different winches with the biggest being 12,000 lbs I think. The problem is they are too slow and you get guys standing around waiting for the winch to move. plus small personal winches on long pulls in excess of 50 feet cause you to add extra cable so you pull till the hook is at the winch, un-hook extend out take out a piece of cable re-hook and drag the next section. After two or three or four times of this on each one. Get a wrecker, cause they have 250-300 foot of cable. Saves a ton of time and you can get on to the next job. As far as loading the logs... If you are going to do this job professionally, in my opinion you can't go wrong with purchasing a loader whether it be a skid loader, log loader, or my next purchase a dump trailer with a front mount log loader. Our New Holland LS 190 will lift just about anything but driving it on yards is an issue not neccessarily because of weight but the turning and tearing up the yards. The trailer loader could could be driven on the yard with little damage other than ground compaction. For the most part the trailer loader can lift the majority of what we are removing and you don't need a trailer to haul the skid and a trailer to put the logs it is all one and only one truck to pull it. I like the dump option because unloading takes time. On the big logs an 80-100 hp skid with at least 3500 lb lifting capacity will save you a lot of headaches and make sure you have a grapple bucket for it. Its a major investment but you will wonder what you did without it. On in-town projects we don't skid anything. Too much ground damage. We invested in a little 4 ft by 8 ft four wheeled trailer and we will cut logs to managable size so that one or two guys can load. We then role it to the curb and load it onto or dump trailer. Keeps us off the grass with equipment and faster then a log dolly because you could do the equivalent of two or three in one trip.

 

[TimberJack_7]

Good description TimberJack. I've used this same method many times with a single axle trailer. Works very well. Can this be done with a double axle?

Yep. It is conducive to use four chocks and to raise the tongue of the trailer as to the highest angle possible. The trailer jack I have is pretty sturdy and I have never broken it. The trick is getting that log onto the actual trailer bed. Once that part is done, the friction problem is minimal.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

As to size logs and transport, it depends on safety. Open sided trailers, the longer the better. The more mass the better.

One problem with the low cost electric winches is that they are not desiged for long term use, they overheat.

I've talked to a guy who uses a parbuckle on an old rim mounted to the drive axle of a truck or jeep in tight areas. Jacks the vehical up, takes off one wheel and mounts the "winch rim" (for lack of a better term). Gotta really trust yourself there. (It came up at a convention when I mentione a guy wheo has a lathe running off an old pickup drive axle. Has the throttle run out the door...)

I've used the GRCS to winch logs into a truck when there is a sturdy rigpoint one can get a block into. Natural crotch causes too much friction on big logs, but long narrow ones works well.

The log dolly is the most cost effective in that it allows you to operate on minimal capital in the bordest varieties of landscapes.

Though we will allwasy run into those jobs where cut and carry is needed.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

When just wenching up i think capacity(taking wench and not boom as weak link) and safety are increased by hitching s-lightly off center. Whereby, part of the weight is on the ground as you lift one end. Get load into position; then lean on light/ lifted end; to pick up heavier end and spirit it up and around onto trailer.

On stump/ not log stuff; i've seen many try to roll up a ramp (2 x 12 pair etc.); when just sliding on smooth sawed end will do nicely; will hold itself and not try to roll down etc. Especially when just balancing on 1 of the smooth ramps; to reduce friction/ contact area/ drag.

When having to just manhandle up try to use shape size, texture and weight against itself like some kind of tree karate. If 6' piece try to lift light end and then use it as lever on side of trailer to lift heavy end. If shorter; tilt and rock up onto a step maid out of scrap; then lever rest. Once you get it moving and rock onto step; dance with it, keep the force moving and smoothly get it onto trailer using inertia on your side; rather than stopping on step and fighting inertia. Some shorts it is easier to lift heavy end; then lever rest onto trailer, because there is not enough leverage on your side you place weight high to use it. Sometimes we have rolled stumps up side; press into trailer and let bark texture fit like a gear into trailer edge; then roll up. Trying to just lift or roll up can be less efficient; remember to get bite of gear effect by pressing into trailer firmly first; then leveraging up with rolling motion on this gear tooth. Sometimes cut notch that will just catch trailer edge right and by wide enough to not resist forward roll once it does; then pro-ceed with same gear effect. Can also use this 'gear/lever' effect by cutting 'tooth' out of spar and standing on end. This gives leverage up ability of working spar like discussed earlier; but also A) gives positive 'catch' to fight slip while leveraging and B) as the trailer sets into wood and not just on edge; it allows more of spar weight to get passed pivot of trailer; taking away weight that must be lifted past pivot and putting it on your side to help lift. Get confident and kinda throw the spar/lever at trailer; to use inertia movement to help you; and dance with the motion/ don't let it stop until load is on. Throw it into trailer, pull it down, and then lean on it/get on top of it and pivot it around; all in one smooth motion/dance. Arc-ing into an arc motion is a compund lever action; each arc a leverage force; multiplying the other as they work together.

 

[TimberJack_7]

I've talked to a guy who uses a parbuckle on an old rim mounted to the drive axle of a truck or jeep in tight areas. Jacks the vehical up, takes off one wheel and mounts the "winch rim" (for lack of a better term). Gotta really trust yourself there. (It came up at a convention when I mentione a guy wheo has a lathe running off an old pickup drive axle. Has the throttle run out the door...)

QUOTE]


I'm assuming that this would require either posi traction or perhaps some aftermarket differential locker such as an ARB air locker or a Detroit locker?

 

[Tree Machine]

When having to just manhandle up try to use shape size, texture and weight against itself like some kind of tree karate. If 6' piece try to lift light end and then use it as lever on side of trailer to lift heavy end. If shorter; tilt and rock up onto a step maid out of scrap; then lever rest. Once you get it moving and rock onto step; dance with it, keep the force moving and smoothly get it onto trailer using inertia on your side; rather than stopping on step and fighting inertia. Some shorts it is easier to lift heavy end; then lever rest onto trailer, because there is not enough leverage on your side you place weight high to use it. Sometimes we have rolled stumps up side; press into trailer and let bark texture fit like a gear into trailer edge; then roll up. Trying to just lift or roll up can be less efficient; remember to get bite of gear effect by pressing into trailer firmly first; then leveraging up with rolling motion on this gear tooth. Sometimes cut notch that will just catch trailer edge right and by wide enough to not resist forward roll once it does; then pro-ceed with same gear effect. Can also use this 'gear/lever' effect by cutting 'tooth' out of spar and standing on end. This gives leverage up ability of working spar like discussed earlier; but also A) gives positive 'catch' to fight slip while leveraging and B) as the trailer sets into wood and not just on edge; it allows more of spar weight to get passed pivot of trailer; taking away weight that must be lifted past pivot and putting it on your side to help lift. Get confident and kinda throw the spar/lever at trailer; to use inertia movement to help you; and dance with the motion/ don't let it stop until load is on. Throw it into trailer, pull it down, and then lean on it/get on top of it and pivot it around; all in one smooth motion/dance. Arc-ing into an arc motion is a compund lever action; each arc a leverage force; multiplying the other as they work together.

Mang, that was poetic.

Something that isn't in Lifting Heavy Things, nor have we touched on it yet in this thread, one of the simplest of all lifting tools, the Gin Poles; two upright poles, lashed at the top, rope, cable or chain hanging down. Tag lines at the top, going forward and back. You set the gin poles up over top of the log, upright, at an angle. Attach log, raise gin poles with the tag line(s), you have lifted log. A simple z-rig pully system (basic block and tackle) to make the line length adjustable, as well as give you a 2:1, its not hard to see how you could get a log to 'walk' lengthwise onto the back of a trailer.

Anybody of you ever used these? I haven't. I would just think if you had poles long enough to span the full width of your trailer, you could do some impressive static lifts.

 

[TimberJack_7]

Mang, that was poetic.

Something that isn't in Lifting Heavy Things, nor have we touched on it yet in this thread, one of the simplest of all lifting tools, the Gin Poles; two upright poles, lashed at the top, rope, cable or chain hanging down. Tag lines at the top, going forward and back. You set the gin poles up over top of the log, upright, at an angle. Attach log, raise gin poles with the tag line(s), you have lifted log. A simple z-rig pully system (basic block and tackle) to make the line length adjustable, as well as give you a 2:1, its not hard to see how you could get a log to 'walk' lengthwise onto the back of a trailer.

Anybody of you ever used these? I haven't. I would just think if you had poles long enough to span the full width of your trailer, you could do some impressive static lifts.

You mean like this?

http://photos.imageevent.com/moparnorm/flatfenderpowerwagons/websize/gin pole.jpg

 

[Tree Machine]

I would have to say that image pretty much sums it up.

 

[John Ellison]

I have used a single gin pole to pull truck engines a couple of times.
Here is a wood A-frame.