rngrchad
Addicted to ArboristSite
It is terribly humbing to read such posts. God speed on your friends recovery.
-Chad
-Chad
Buddy hurt in saw accident...Wear your chaps/pants!
- Thread starter PWB
- Start date
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Is a slower saw that much Safer?
Do you think a slower saw is that much safer? I have a Dolmar 5100 and a Stihl 028. One reason I bought the 5100 is because the 028 doesn't have a chain brake. When I read these injury post I think maybe I should go back to my 028 or find a good clean 028 Super which has a brake- they rev about 1500 to 2000 less than a Dolmar. Then I almost bought a Husky 353 which revs about 1000 less. I don't need a Hot Rod saw so do you think the slower saws are much safer? I have a helmet and chaps which I wear most of the time. Sometimes I don't wear my chaps when I'm using my Homelite 30cc- I know I should.
I keep reading about some of the 5100 problems so that kind of has me down about it, but it seems like it cuts like a hot knife through butter- I would hate to let it go.
Yea I should of said sorry to hear about the guy getting hurt that's bad. I've seen other post and pics of injuries- they're terrible and scares the heck out of me. I just cut for fun so I've said before, "No more Saws for me", but they're fun to play with. I've noticed and I bet other guys do too, when Im cutting wood I go at it like I'm "Killing Snakes". I cut up a lot of small stuff on down to 2" dia, so I'm getting hung up on branches and sometimes stumbling around. I keep saying I've got slow down and be safer, but its about like getting off of an interstate- its hard to slow down.
Do you think a slower saw is that much safer? I have a Dolmar 5100 and a Stihl 028. One reason I bought the 5100 is because the 028 doesn't have a chain brake. When I read these injury post I think maybe I should go back to my 028 or find a good clean 028 Super which has a brake- they rev about 1500 to 2000 less than a Dolmar. Then I almost bought a Husky 353 which revs about 1000 less. I don't need a Hot Rod saw so do you think the slower saws are much safer? I have a helmet and chaps which I wear most of the time. Sometimes I don't wear my chaps when I'm using my Homelite 30cc- I know I should.
I keep reading about some of the 5100 problems so that kind of has me down about it, but it seems like it cuts like a hot knife through butter- I would hate to let it go.
Yea I should of said sorry to hear about the guy getting hurt that's bad. I've seen other post and pics of injuries- they're terrible and scares the heck out of me. I just cut for fun so I've said before, "No more Saws for me", but they're fun to play with. I've noticed and I bet other guys do too, when Im cutting wood I go at it like I'm "Killing Snakes". I cut up a lot of small stuff on down to 2" dia, so I'm getting hung up on branches and sometimes stumbling around. I keep saying I've got slow down and be safer, but its about like getting off of an interstate- its hard to slow down.
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SilverBox
ArboristSite Guru
Nope, I think the violence of the kick back has to do with the power being applied to the chain. If you have a slow reving 6 horsepower saw at full throttle, its gonna kick ALOT harder then a high revving 2 horsepower saw at full throttle.
kkesler
ArboristSite Operative
I don't have saws that weigh the same where one is slower and more powerful to make the comparison you describe, and I think the weight of the saw figures into it. On my C5 if the tip bumps something it lifts less and much less violently than my 260. I figure it's because although the C5 is plenty powerful it's also very heavy and the chain is not moving as fast.
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
Sorry to hear about the accident and yes chaps would have prevented it.
I started this business before chaps became manditory and I would like to tell you I wear them but not true.
I have a pair and if anyone else is running my saws I prefer them to use them.
I have been cutting professionally for 25 years and have never once cut myself.
Could it happen yes, could I be hit by a meteor yes, I prefer to wear my eye protection and hard hat to almost 100% compliance but 100 plus degrees chaps ain't no way.
I have more to fear from a stroke than cutting the wrong limb sorry if I don't fit the mold
I started this business before chaps became manditory and I would like to tell you I wear them but not true.
I have a pair and if anyone else is running my saws I prefer them to use them.
I have been cutting professionally for 25 years and have never once cut myself.
Could it happen yes, could I be hit by a meteor yes, I prefer to wear my eye protection and hard hat to almost 100% compliance but 100 plus degrees chaps ain't no way.
I have more to fear from a stroke than cutting the wrong limb sorry if I don't fit the mold
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flatpikr
ArboristSite Operative
That's exactly what I did--- 044 just finished the felling cut, tree starts to go, my finger is off the trigger but the chain had not come to a full stop when I moved out of one harm's way into another. Tapped the top of my left thigh. I was happy when ice water and a tight bandage stopped the bleeding and I was able to keep on cuttin'. Bought chaps shortly thereafter.
DarylB
ArboristSite Operative
but 100 plus degrees chaps ain't no way.
I have more to fear from a stroke than cutting the wrong limb sorry if I don't fit the mold
It just gets too damn hot in Arkansas doesn't it rope?
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
89% of thigh cuts are from resting the saw on your leg which I never do.
I have witnessed this over the years improper use is the number one cause
of injury's and ppe like chaps is designed to protect individuals from themselves.
I know I sound cocky but not my intention, I merely point out why I have not
been cut and hardly ever wear chaps and I no way wish to condone their non
use , I just don't want a mold of injury's in which I do not fit being ramed down
my throat.
I have witnessed this over the years improper use is the number one cause
of injury's and ppe like chaps is designed to protect individuals from themselves.
I know I sound cocky but not my intention, I merely point out why I have not
been cut and hardly ever wear chaps and I no way wish to condone their non
use , I just don't want a mold of injury's in which I do not fit being ramed down
my throat.
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habanero
ArboristSite Guru
You're likely to get flamed for your opinion, but I agree with it-at least to a certain extent. I have the same feeling about all the safety equipment on the new saws. People think I'm stupid for running my old Homelites with no chain brakes, but that's what I learned on, am used to it, and I really think knowing I don't have a chain brake probably makes me be more careful. That's not to say chain brakes aren't a good thing, but it's not a death sentence to run a saw without one.
Now all that being said, I did start wearing chaps after a near miss about a year ago. Typical situation limbing a trunk with the saw about waste level and after I came through the cut the whole limb shifted and pushed the bar down towards my leg. The saw was coming down to idle and though it cut my jeans it just left a red mark on my leg and nothing more. But after that I decided I had been warned and started wearing chaps.
SawTroll
Information Collector
An inertia brake should work regardless of that - but I don't want to challege it......
SawTroll
Information Collector
Your head is your most important PPE anyway.....
...but I "always" wear protective trousers and boots by now, at least in prinsiple....
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lmalterna
ArboristSite Operative
I just recently started wearing chaps and steel toes. Most of my near misses have always been my fault and a sure sign to put the damned saw down and rest. Usually from taking right hand off grip to move something before chain comes to a stop.
Springpoles have tricked me & I have tangled my feet and gone down but I learned. Thank God I never had to learn like the OP's buddy.
2Door
Springpoles have tricked me & I have tangled my feet and gone down but I learned. Thank God I never had to learn like the OP's buddy.
2Door
Respectfully (not flaming), your comments say it all.
Everyone thinks that they are in control, and 'working safe', and not the guy that's going to get hurt . . .
Chain brakes and chaps, etc. are not supposed to replace safe work practices, they are to supplement them. They are part of working safe. I think that wearing chaps is especially important as you note that you are cutting without the brake.
Philbert
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
It just gets too damn hot in Arkansas doesn't it rope?
I came to Ar because the heat was worse where I once lived I had a heat episode in Houston Texas in my youth and never one since. I have learned the signs and symptoms and do things to prevent being overheated. I will not wear chaps in hot conditions as a stroke has a good chance of being fatal and a cut can be but odds are better for survival imo.
bogiemsn
ArboristSite Operative
As the name implies wearing PPE is a personal choice. But if you think that you're more careful when running saws without chain brakes or by not wearing PPE then you're kidding yourself. Isn't knowing that you can make a mistake or have something unexpected happen part of being careful?
The guy who got hurt didn't know there was a stump under the snow where he was cutting. That's pretty easy to miss.
If you're like me and you sometimes make mistakes or get a bit careless then it's a good idea to use all the safety equipment at your disposal.
Rope-I'm guessing you mean heat stroke rather than brain type of stroke better known as a cerebrovasuclar accident (CVA). If so, I gotta tell ya, you can bleed to death a lot faster than dying of heat stroke. Heat in and of itself doesn't cause CVAs though certainly heat injury is something to be concerned with. Keep hydrated bro and stay safe.
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BuddhaKat
Addicted to ArboristSite
I came to AS to learn, and boy have I learned some extremely valuable things. Safety and PPE is probably the most important thing I have got from here and I am grateful for it. I just ordered my chaps from Labonville the other day and I will wear them every time I cut. I know I will because I'm a chainsaw cut survivor. Just a little nick on my leg, but enough to leave a scar. I didn't even know chaps existed until I came here. My advice, buy the best you can possibly get.
It is insane to not wear your PPE while cutting.
It is insane to not wear your PPE while cutting.
Not really (nothing 'personal' bogiemsn); it refers to protective equipment that you wear on your 'person', as opposed to safety devices that are engineered into the tool, product or process. In the safety world PPE is considered as a last line of defense after risks or hazards are eliminated (best), or controlled by engineering methods (next best).
If you use a chainsaw as an 'employee' as part of your work, PPE is likely required:
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/userguide/userguide.html
Philbert
bogiemsn
ArboristSite Operative
Point taken, Phil. I don't disagree in the slightest. But if certain folks like Rope or Habenero are sawing as an avocation rather than a vocation they can decide for themselves whether or not they want to take advantage of the available safety equipment. The most important piece of safety equipment is your brain. IMHO - those who choose not to wear chaps are making a bad decision.
It's strange to read some folks at AS actually put their saws away for the winter. I much prefer to cut in temps below 30F. I put my saw away in summer because it's so damn hot. Not everyone is fortunate enough to live up north like us. I'm sure the guys down south have it a lot worse and Rope is right to be concerned with heat stroke. There's no doubt about it chaps are hot and uncomfortable. If I were in his situation I guess I'd try to find the coolest lightest pants with saw protection I could find. Trading comfort for safety is no bargain.
It's strange to read some folks at AS actually put their saws away for the winter. I much prefer to cut in temps below 30F. I put my saw away in summer because it's so damn hot. Not everyone is fortunate enough to live up north like us. I'm sure the guys down south have it a lot worse and Rope is right to be concerned with heat stroke. There's no doubt about it chaps are hot and uncomfortable. If I were in his situation I guess I'd try to find the coolest lightest pants with saw protection I could find. Trading comfort for safety is no bargain.
habanero
ArboristSite Guru
I call this phenomenom "4-wheel drive SUV syndrome". On slick roads, people driving 4-wheel drive SUV's tend to be the first ones to get themselves in trouble because they have the feeling of invicibility and drive like it. Does this mean no one should drive 4-wheel drive vehicles on slick roads-of course it doesn't. But it does illustrate how reliance on safety features can get someone in trouble.
Look, I'm not putting down the use of PPE, and I as I illustrated I wear chaps myself. I also think the development of chain brakes is an advancement for the safety of saw users. But, I also think people tend to be more comfortable running a saw with all the safety features in place. Comfort lends itself to complacency (sp?) and complacency lends itself to accidents-no matter how much safety gear you have.
bogiemsn
ArboristSite Operative
You hit the nail on the head, man. "Complacency Kills"! PPE is the last line of defense not the first. Never rely on the chain brake. If you're cutting and you have a kickback and the brake saves your skin, you better take yourself out of the game and figure out what it is that you did wrong, 'cause you just got very lucky. The manufacturers of chaps, saw protective gloves and boots all say that their product is meant to reduce your cut injuries not eliminate them.
It's anecdotal evidence but one guy I know that took a hard from an MS660 while wearing chaps tells me that it nearly ripped the chaps right off his legs. He was pretty sore and torn up from the friction of the chaps against his skin. But it's still better than getting chunks of flesh torn out or hitting an artery. So it's like an airbag or seatbelt, they're good to have but you definitely don't want to use 'em unless you have to.
BTW - I LOVE seeing big fancy SUVs in the ditch. Excellent analogy.
