Okay, so I have access to some parts that would build possible the biggest splitter I’ve seen. At work I can get really heavy h beams (14x89s or 14x117s are common) and I have a few junk vehicles with running engines sitting around. At an auction house nearby they have an 8”x42” cylinder that must be off an excavator or wheel loader and will likely go for under $100. My one piece I’m missing is a pump that would run this cylinder well. I could try and run two 2 stage pumps in parallel, or I could run a 1000rpm PTO hydraulic pump at 2500 psi (I want about 40 gpm). I would probably use a transmission (likely an sm465 behind a 350 Chevy) and put a 1000 PTO shaft on the output and calculate the engine rpm required to run the shaft at 1000 rpm. I could use the u joint to adapt from 10 spline gm to 21 spline PTO. I would mount the PTO shaft with two hanger bearings. The engine I would mount on a frame with rubber mounts. I also have a 37hp vg4d sitting on a pallet if you can think of a way to use it. At some point I would like to build a small loading arm (not a crane because I want to be able to stand at the splitter controls and pick up logs). The loading arm is an afterthought. I plan on mounting this whole device on a 1 ton pickup axle and maybe setting up some small outriggers powered by the engines power steering pump. I also have a ton of really big hydro reservoirs. I’d have to buy valves. Am I silly? Any advice?
Building an ultimate splitter
- Thread starter Biggut
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Why would you want a 42" cylinder?
And eight inch in diameter?
Match the tool to the job. Using giant parts just because they are available in the long term is going to cost more in time and labor than buying or finding more appropriate sized parts.
Being self propelled is a huge advantage.
A single 28gpm two stage pump only needs about 14 hp. A overly sized engine will most likely be ran at an rpm where it is not efficient.
Auto returning valves are a huge time saver.
Log lifts and tables are good things.
Conveyors to move the split wood to a truck or dump trailer are a good idea.
And eight inch in diameter?
Match the tool to the job. Using giant parts just because they are available in the long term is going to cost more in time and labor than buying or finding more appropriate sized parts.
Being self propelled is a huge advantage.
A single 28gpm two stage pump only needs about 14 hp. A overly sized engine will most likely be ran at an rpm where it is not efficient.
Auto returning valves are a huge time saver.
Log lifts and tables are good things.
Conveyors to move the split wood to a truck or dump trailer are a good idea.
Del,
I really appreciate the input! I like the 42” stroke because my boiler is about 45” deep. If it fits in the splitter it fits in the boiler. I do like leaving some pieces longer. As to the size, I have been splitting a lot of really big (60”+) knotty pine and some big chunks of ash. The ash borers have killed all the trees in my area and I like to be able to split the big stumps with much less effort and time. I would try a 6”x42” if one was readily accessible for a low price. I would also like to be able to push a 6 way or maybe even an 8 way.
Make it so you can interchange the 6 or 8 way wedges.
Do you mean like a slide over wedge, or make it so the height can adjust and not engage the bottom set of wings? I’m not sure how to do the latter.
Well, the wedge should slide on, and the height should also be adjustable with a hydraulic cylinder. I will try to post a pic of that setup.
Here look at these splitters.
https://www.wolferidgemfg.com/produ...ial+Log+Splitter&cat_id=1&mode=item&inv_id=11
https://www.wolferidgemfg.com/produ...ial+Log+Splitter&cat_id=1&mode=item&inv_id=11
That makes sense. Where would a guy go to buy a wedge that tall? Otherwise I suppose I could try to find some 1” steel and make my own
It's vastly cheaper to make your own wedges. Worked on a timber wolf processor for a guy that didn't buy the optional 6 and 8 way wedges when he bought the processor. The 8 way was a messy joke, he ended up sticking with a 6 way. They arnt hard to make if you have the time, steel and are decent at welding. Box wedges are great, but very messy. I'm not really a fan from the waste end of things.
40 gpm will be hard pressed to find an auto cycle valve or auto return valve that will flow that much. 30 would be more like it, although I'd be running a stacked pump if I was going that big vs a traditional 2 stage pump. (Only saying this because you'll be extremely over powered using most common automotive engines.) That would alleviate the need for a priority valve. Would possibly be a bit more expensive, but simplify the hydraulics a bit.
You'll need to find out max working pressure for the cylinder you're using as well, that will basically determine system max pressure, unless you want to add a bunch of different relief valves for other accessories. All that dies is add cost though.
Think about every thing you want to run off hydraulics now. It's easier to design for them now, then try and add them on later. Trust me, been down this rabbit hole a few times. If you want a lift, make provisions for it now, want your arm/crane thingy plan for it now. I'd advise a sectional valve over a mono block so you can add spools as needed and not need power beyond or other such things that add complications and costs.
Also plan for a oil cooler and plenty of oil capacity. I'm running a 5x24" cylinder and I can attest it gets plenty hot with the 12 gallons of fluid capacity I have on hand. I was going for a compact design this time, but version 2.0 will have a dedicated cooler and a lot more capacity.
Something that helps with cycle time and keeping the fluid cooler is a quick dump valve for the return stroke and having properly sized lines/valves rated foe the flow you intend to run. Another thing I wish I did a bit differently on my splitter when I built it. Ran the std -8 (1/2") lines to the cylinder from the valve, I really just wish I would have went with the -12 working ports on the valve and had larger ports installed on the cylinder. A quick dump valve would have been nice too, instead of forcing all thay fluid back through the valve.
I'd also suggest mic channel over I or H beam. Much stronger web and doesn't have the stupid slanted profile like I beam does. Makes life easier and it's more akin to having a double beam without having to fab it yourself. Also doesn't have to be near as large as a comparable I beam for strength. I have 8"tall, 4"x1/2" legs with a 1" web. You need to go much bigger in I or H beam to get a web that thick. I got it from a local scrap yard for $0.46 a foot. Will work out much better even using 2 lengths of it vs the 12" I beam I currently have in use. The 5" cylinder @2800psi (relief pressure) flexes the beam pretty good. Hasn't ever broke and I sedomly get into something that makes it hit relief, but you can see the I beam bow. Thats also with a single wedge, it's worse with my 4 way. (Also not adjustable, wedge has to be adjustable!)
Just a few thoughts with my screw ups. Possibly help you prevent some of yours.
40 gpm will be hard pressed to find an auto cycle valve or auto return valve that will flow that much. 30 would be more like it, although I'd be running a stacked pump if I was going that big vs a traditional 2 stage pump. (Only saying this because you'll be extremely over powered using most common automotive engines.) That would alleviate the need for a priority valve. Would possibly be a bit more expensive, but simplify the hydraulics a bit.
You'll need to find out max working pressure for the cylinder you're using as well, that will basically determine system max pressure, unless you want to add a bunch of different relief valves for other accessories. All that dies is add cost though.
Think about every thing you want to run off hydraulics now. It's easier to design for them now, then try and add them on later. Trust me, been down this rabbit hole a few times. If you want a lift, make provisions for it now, want your arm/crane thingy plan for it now. I'd advise a sectional valve over a mono block so you can add spools as needed and not need power beyond or other such things that add complications and costs.
Also plan for a oil cooler and plenty of oil capacity. I'm running a 5x24" cylinder and I can attest it gets plenty hot with the 12 gallons of fluid capacity I have on hand. I was going for a compact design this time, but version 2.0 will have a dedicated cooler and a lot more capacity.
Something that helps with cycle time and keeping the fluid cooler is a quick dump valve for the return stroke and having properly sized lines/valves rated foe the flow you intend to run. Another thing I wish I did a bit differently on my splitter when I built it. Ran the std -8 (1/2") lines to the cylinder from the valve, I really just wish I would have went with the -12 working ports on the valve and had larger ports installed on the cylinder. A quick dump valve would have been nice too, instead of forcing all thay fluid back through the valve.
I'd also suggest mic channel over I or H beam. Much stronger web and doesn't have the stupid slanted profile like I beam does. Makes life easier and it's more akin to having a double beam without having to fab it yourself. Also doesn't have to be near as large as a comparable I beam for strength. I have 8"tall, 4"x1/2" legs with a 1" web. You need to go much bigger in I or H beam to get a web that thick. I got it from a local scrap yard for $0.46 a foot. Will work out much better even using 2 lengths of it vs the 12" I beam I currently have in use. The 5" cylinder @2800psi (relief pressure) flexes the beam pretty good. Hasn't ever broke and I sedomly get into something that makes it hit relief, but you can see the I beam bow. Thats also with a single wedge, it's worse with my 4 way. (Also not adjustable, wedge has to be adjustable!)
Just a few thoughts with my screw ups. Possibly help you prevent some of yours.
That’s a lot of good info. Thank you! I was looking at 40gpm PTO driven pump, but what is a double stacked pump? I doubt I’ll be able to find a cave that large as well, but if I run 40 gpm through a 30 or 35 gpm valve doesn’t it just add heat? I was thinking of putting like a 30 gallon res. Do you think I could make an oil cooler with a trans cooler? I’m not too worried about the beam strength. The web is about 2/3 to 4/5 of an inch thick, I didn’t imagine that would be an issue, but what is mic channel? I guess the hydraulics are where I really need to brush up. I figured I’d put a pump, valve, and cylinder. When I go to add hydros for a lift I’ll just put in a short piece of hose (or pipe) on the return side of the valve. That’s where I’ll add my lift because as the pump just cycles and the ram isn’t moving, the oil just passes through the valve. When it hits my new set of valves I add it could be distributed from there to the needs of the lift. What does a dump valve do and what is a priority valve?
Heavyopp
ArboristSite Lurker
Can’t power another valve from the return port on 1st valve. 1st valve must have power beyond capability and then theres an adapter sleeve to make it work.
Take out the plug, install power beyond sleeve, then go to next valve.
Take out the plug, install power beyond sleeve, then go to next valve.
Heat is the enemy, that's one of the reasons valves are selected based on flow ratings, psi then functionality. You can't tap off a return port for pressure, you would need a power beyond valve. Return ports are only rated for around 250-300psi in a typical open center hydraulic system. It's only function is to return fluid to the tank.
Hence why I mentioned a sectional valve, you can add sections for more functions later then needing a power beyond plug built into a monoblock valve. This really simplifies things. Each mono block still needs a return line, weather it's using the power buying feature or not. In a sectional valve you just have one supply and return. It works pretty well for splitter applications when you have a lot of accessory hydraulic functions.
A sectional pump (may be referred to as a piggy back pump or tandem pump) will cost a bit more then one big pump, but alleviates the need for flow control/priority valves. It's a give and take, how many thing do you need to do at the same time that will hog hydraulic flow? If it's only a few, then one big pump and one priority valve will work just fine. If you're intending to do 3 or 4 functions at the same time, multiple pumps are favored over one large pump and many priority valves. (Priority valves also have flow limits.)
Mic channel is a heavy duty C channel, that has a more square profile then the tapered legs of standard C channel. My brother's use it a lot at work. I will about guarantee you'll flex your I beam. One of the biggest reasons I'm going to mic channel. (Using it to make a double I beam.) That and I got it for pennies on the dollar vs getting a heavier I/ H beam. Seems everyone gets stuck on making a splitter the heaviest thing on planet earth with huge I/H beams, when there are other ways that work just as well. Just something to think about. Build for strength, but not to add unnecessary weight.
A dump valve is just as it sounds, it send fluid directly to the tank vs going through the control valve. On log splitters it help the return stroke speed.
Priority valves take fluid and divide it, typically giving a steady supply of flow to one port (the priority) and the excess fow is deverted for more work, or to tank. To keep it simple, say you have 10 gpm pump, but you want to power accessories independent of the main load. The accessory only needs 1gpm, so the valve splits off the 1gpm and sends the other 9 off to tank or whatever else you want. Ie another work valve or tank.
Keeping it simple, a common log splitter hi-low pump, a power beyond capable valve for the lift and an auto return valve works really well for simple set ups. Takes the least hp to run the pump and allows one accessory without needing any other valves or multiple pumps.
Hence why I mentioned a sectional valve, you can add sections for more functions later then needing a power beyond plug built into a monoblock valve. This really simplifies things. Each mono block still needs a return line, weather it's using the power buying feature or not. In a sectional valve you just have one supply and return. It works pretty well for splitter applications when you have a lot of accessory hydraulic functions.
A sectional pump (may be referred to as a piggy back pump or tandem pump) will cost a bit more then one big pump, but alleviates the need for flow control/priority valves. It's a give and take, how many thing do you need to do at the same time that will hog hydraulic flow? If it's only a few, then one big pump and one priority valve will work just fine. If you're intending to do 3 or 4 functions at the same time, multiple pumps are favored over one large pump and many priority valves. (Priority valves also have flow limits.)
Mic channel is a heavy duty C channel, that has a more square profile then the tapered legs of standard C channel. My brother's use it a lot at work. I will about guarantee you'll flex your I beam. One of the biggest reasons I'm going to mic channel. (Using it to make a double I beam.) That and I got it for pennies on the dollar vs getting a heavier I/ H beam. Seems everyone gets stuck on making a splitter the heaviest thing on planet earth with huge I/H beams, when there are other ways that work just as well. Just something to think about. Build for strength, but not to add unnecessary weight.
A dump valve is just as it sounds, it send fluid directly to the tank vs going through the control valve. On log splitters it help the return stroke speed.
Priority valves take fluid and divide it, typically giving a steady supply of flow to one port (the priority) and the excess fow is deverted for more work, or to tank. To keep it simple, say you have 10 gpm pump, but you want to power accessories independent of the main load. The accessory only needs 1gpm, so the valve splits off the 1gpm and sends the other 9 off to tank or whatever else you want. Ie another work valve or tank.
Keeping it simple, a common log splitter hi-low pump, a power beyond capable valve for the lift and an auto return valve works really well for simple set ups. Takes the least hp to run the pump and allows one accessory without needing any other valves or multiple pumps.
Typical 2 stage hi-low log splitter pump. Not to be confused with a sectional/tandem/piggy back pump
https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydra...r-Pumps/?page_no=1&sort_by_options=price+desc
Sectional pumps
https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Pumps/Multi-Section-Pumps/
Priority valves
https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Valves/Divider-Valves/
Sectional valves
https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Valves/Sectional-Control-Valves/
Mono block valves. (Note some have power beyond, some don't. Some are open center some are closed center)
https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Valves/Directional-Control-Valves/
Also mono block design, but more specific to log splitter use.
https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Valves/Log-Splitter-Valves/
https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydra...r-Pumps/?page_no=1&sort_by_options=price+desc
Sectional pumps
https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Pumps/Multi-Section-Pumps/
Priority valves
https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Valves/Divider-Valves/
Sectional valves
https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Valves/Sectional-Control-Valves/
Mono block valves. (Note some have power beyond, some don't. Some are open center some are closed center)
https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Valves/Directional-Control-Valves/
Also mono block design, but more specific to log splitter use.
https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Valves/Log-Splitter-Valves/
I forgot about the cooler. No a trans cooler wouldnt flow near enough fluid. I have an old hydraulic cooler out of a price of equipment I found at the junk yard. 1 1/4 inlet/outlet hooks right up to the return line. Small 12 volt fan. Nothing fancy.
Heavyopp
ArboristSite Lurker
Dump valve? Please explain.
It's akin to a quick release valve on air brakes, when the cylinder is going out the dump port is closed going to tank, when the cylinder is retracting it open the second port and oil goes directly back to the tank. It has a lot less flow restrictions then going back through the valve. It's fairly standard in higher flow/ commercial splitters with large rod diameters, as the retract speed is typically a lot faster then the extend due to the larger rod diameter.
cledoux
New Member
I would love to the see the finish build on this one, cause dang
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