burn contracting

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kkottemann

ArboristSite Operative
Joined
Jun 22, 2006
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Location
New Orleans,La/Poplarville, MS
after a couple years of urging by state officials and non-profit groups I finally took on some projects involving controlled burns. I have a strong background in this work and was a fire manager before for a non-profit. I took on a huge mitigation project that I was suppose to just do the mulching on, but after the operations manager found out i had background in fire and he could not find a local contractor to do the work i got the gig. Since then I've been awarded 3 new contracts with another mitigation bank, the wildlife and fisheries and a forestry consulting firm. So i'm just curious as to how many of you out there are burning contractors? how do you charge? how is the business in your part of the country/world? I want to get a discussion going on this subject. the work here is strong, not body does it because of the insurance costs and lack of qualified people....I would have never be able to get into it without being awarded a 3000 acre project to start on! I sunk a small fortune in radios, water support equipment, small fire tools ect....I post some pics soon too.
 
We do a lot of RX burning on the ownership where I work, often in conjunction with TNC. I would think that they would be the best resource as far as know-how and experience, unless they're the non-profit you alluded to, in which case you already know what I'm talking about.

One thing I can offer is that you might consider breaking your bids out by both acres and fuel type, with cost/acre scaling proportionate to complexity.

Also, watch your "window" closely regarding air quality and community concerns. People get pretty nervous about fire.
 
I've been involved with controlled burning for 37 years, and I can say that times have certainly changed. In the seventies, in this part of GA (middle) and especially south of here, you couldn't drive around in late winter or early spring without smelling or seeing smoke, and everyone was used to it. Thousands of acres were burned every year. Back then the main concern was fire getting out and doing physical damage to adjoining property. Now, smoke is the big issue.

We used to burn in late evening and at night, but that's taboo now due to smoke settling on the highways. Burn blocks were 500-1000 acres, and we set all of it on fire at one time. Of course, it took days to burn that much area with a backfire, but it didn't matter since the public knew what was going on.

Now we have purely ignorant folks living in the country who don't have a clue why anyone would want to set fire on purpose to the woods. Drivers refuse to slow down for smoke, and, quite frankly, the liability potential is so great that my burning has been cut way back to a fraction of what it once was.

My advice is to get an insurance policy that covers damage to adjoining landowners as well as your client, make a "burn plan" which includes weather info., smoke management considerations, etc., insist on wide, permanent type firebreaks if at all possible, and get certified in the state you're in if such a program exists. The more credible you appear to a jury and the more paperwork you have prepared in advance, the less likely you'll lose everything you own if you have a problem and are involved in a court case.

As for charges, mine vary widely depending upon things like fuel buildup, cover type, condition of firebreaks and number of cross breaks, adjoining properties, downwind development (or lack thereof), rural, semi-rural or semi-urban neighborhood, local forestry commission politics, etc., etc. I will charge a much lower price for burning in a "safe" area on land belonging to a client that I made or will make a timber sale for or long-term clients that give me regular business. One time jobs cost more since there's less opportunity for profits in the long run. Understory burning is generally less dangerous than site prep burning, all things considered, and my charges for burning only can vary from a low of $5-6/acre to $20/ac. not inc. the cost of firebreaks. I just quoted a job that came out close to $45/ac. which included permanent firebreak construction and one time burning. The burning alone was $17/ac., and the site was relatively well located for burning. Tract size plays a big role also. The larger the area, the less I charge, in most cases. I don't want to be vague, but fees for burning must be assessed on an individual site basis. Remember, some tracts are simply too risky to burn at any price, not from the standpoint of fire containment, but due to smoke management concerns.

Ironically, the less prescribed burning is done, the more dangerous it becomes with heavy fuel accumulations, potential for tremendous amounts of smoke, and even mortality in the stands of timber. Prescribed burning is essential for southern pine management, but it's quickly losing ground to political factors and ignorance on the part of the public. Smokey did too good a job !
 
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yep...I was a fire manager with TNC for a while. I've been in this game for a while. I'm curious as to how neighboring states are doing as far as RX burning contractors. I have a $15 Different price for site prep burn vs. standing timber on a per acre basis. fire line construction is from $75 to $125 per hour established with a forestry mulcher. most my work as of today is mitigation banks doing longleaf pine restoration....which happens to have been my senior thesis at LSU....I have a phone conference with the USFS tomorrow on contracting with them....there is some opportunity out there in fire..more than what I thought. I fell into this by being the contractor doing the mechanical fuel reduction work for the state dept. of foresty.
 
Here are a few "stories" about controlled burning that won't mean much to experienced burners but might help some get a better understanding of just what can go wrong (and believe me, I could stay up all night with anecdotes about fire).

Years ago, when the first company I worked for was in its infancy, there were only three field personnel and a secretary. The owner of the company, a forester, would go out and actually do field work occasionally, especially on a "fun" job like a burn. Our forestry technician was a wee bit lazy and wouldn't do any more than he had to. He went out with the state Forestry Commission dozer operator to show him where the firebreaks needed to be constructed. Unfortunately, our technician didn't walk the completed breaks to make sure they were in the right place, free of debris, etc. So, here we go out to burn about 200-300 acres late one evening just before dark. The boss was on the impulsive side, and he jumped out of the truck, grabbed a torch and took off along the property line, happily stringing fire. However, he came back in about thirty minutes all upset and told us to call the local forestry unit, the fire was out. It seems that the state employee got to a spot where he was unsure of the boundary and just quit plowing ! The boss chewed out the technician for not checking behind the dozer, but the tech said "hell, it didn't matter if the break ended, you were lighting the wrong side anyway". It turns out the boss took off lighting across the break on the adjoining landowner :dizzy:

Never take anything for granted when it comes to controlled burning.

Second story. We contracted with a helicopter company to burn about 750 acres for site prep in west GA. They were using a drip torch that contained a mix of av gas and napalm, and our job was to light the lines along the firebreaks in advance of the chopper. Our site was right next to a country music park which, unbeknownst to us, had scheduled none other than George Jones for a couple days after our burn. The smoke from 750 acres was awesome, and the boss went ballistic when he found out he might have to pay for a canceled GJ concert. A half dozen of us, along with two or three dozers, spent two days putting out burning stumps and trying to extinguish everything still smoldering. All ended well, since Jones pulled his typical stunt and didn't even show up in the first place.

Never take anything for granted when it comes to controlled burning. Do your homework.

Story three. A good friend of mine and fellow forester let a fire get out, burned some nice timber and had to get the insurance co. to ante up. It was a big payment, and my friend had his policy canceled and couldn't afford to buy another one with his "tainted" record. Then he let another fire get out burning quite a few acres of six yr. old planted pine. I just finished helping him replant the area, and it will cost him dearly for that job plus payment for six years growth. It will come out of his own pocket. Only two companies have policies that cover controlled burning, AFAIK, and he is not insurable now. It looks like I'll be helping him on every burn from now on.

Controlled burning is risky business, and you can lose everything you own in an instant, even if you're doing everything right.
 
I started "working" on controlled burns when I was about 5 years old when I was with my dad. He was a Fire Captain and cleared lots by burning them off on his off days. Later when I was older I lived on a remote cattle ranch and every fall we burned brush for range improvement. Still later I drove a contract water tender on controlled burns/training where we had one major oops. Once I joined the fire department I became the small engine (aka chainsaw etc) specialist and the only one in the department NWCG certified in burning operations. That lead me to run the controlled burns for the department. Politics have pretty muchly killed those.

Nowadays I have a contract to burn log piles. The leg work was done by the property owner so I just put the fire on the ground.

Gotta run. More to follow.
 
how do you resize a photo. my burn pics will not upload i guess because they are too big.

also the above photos are from posts I made years ago. stored in AB vault i assume....I'm walking away from this for a while.
 
how do you resize a photo. my burn pics will not upload i guess because they are too big.

also the above photos are from posts I made years ago. stored in AB vault i assume....I'm walking away from this for a while.
Try downloading picasa or Picasa 3: Free download from Google , we use it all the time it has a great export feature for exactly what you are doing, plus a online folder feature for sharing very large amounts of pictures.

BTW Very interesting topic!
Thanks for sharing!
 
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