CEU Ripoff

[lxt]

Well here I am a CA, obtained it earlier this year! as I read arborist news and look through the 2010 catalog looking at all the educational material I noticed something!

CEU`s are a ripoff, why? well I can buy a book with the little acorn symbol for $39.95 wich will give me 3 whole ceu`s maybe 3.5 or 4 if im lucky, the arborist magazine gives me a whole 1ceu for answering 20 questions!

the point? if the initial exam of 200 multiple choice questions was worth certification, then why in order to obtain 30 ceu`s over 3 yrs will i need to answer 10 times that many!

literally...1 ceu for 20 questions in arborist magazine, I would need to answer 600 questions to satisfy my ceu requirement, worse yet the compendium series....figure that out!!! anywhere from 10 - 20 past articles with atleast 15 - 20 questions each....roughly 350 to 400 plus questions gaining you 4 - 8 ceu`s

how can this be, better yet how ridiculous!!!! 30 Ceu`s the way the ISA does it should get you 6yrs or more!! Im thinking it would be better to just retake the whole test again, it wasnt that hard!

BTW, I do agree the additional certs they`re coming up with are ridiculous, Clearance & I spoke of this years ago along with them being a money grab, boy we were unpopular then uhh? now people are seeing they are just like a union.....worse even! & TCIA.....dont even get me started with the crap they`re promoting.....accredited business.....please!! CTSP...Joke!

It really saddens me to know that they`re so desperate that they`ll conjure up anything as a cert. & Seer I hope you dont even try to back this garbage or the bolts from the blue.....might be lightening headed for you! any way to take a trade with good pay potential & undermine it with mandatory meaningless certs. and Seer......cmon groundworker certification, LOL requirements 40 hrs rake & broom time!

WORSE YET...........most including myself are members of this crap!! maybe if we all quit it would send them a message!

oh BTW.............CEU`S are a ripoff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LXT................

 

[capetrees]

I completely agree although I'm not an arborist nor a memner of TCIA or ISA. I need CEU's in a different proffession and they are a joke. Go to a covention and get the years needed CEU's. No tests, just attend for two days. In a profession that doesn't require an ISA or TCIA membership and seeing that most people don't even know what it's about when they hire you, why do you need them? Once you know the material, why can the assoc. (or in my case the state) continue to require you to continue to pay for what you already know? Do any of us continue to pay our college alma maters to maintain the fact that we went to school and received a degree? How many new ways to cut down a tree are out there? I don't agree with CEU's. I know they are intened to inform you of new information in the field but if you tend to stay in one area of expertise, why do you need to know more if over the years you've pretty much obtained all you need to know?

 

[Blakesmaster]

Well here I am a CA, obtained it earlier this year! as I read arborist news and look through the 2010 catalog looking at all the educational material I noticed something!

CEU`s are a ripoff, why? well I can buy a book with the little acorn symbol for $39.95 wich will give me 3 whole ceu`s maybe 3.5 or 4 if im lucky, the arborist magazine gives me a whole 1ceu for answering 20 questions!

the point? if the initial exam of 200 multiple choice questions was worth certification, then why in order to obtain 30 ceu`s over 3 yrs will i need to answer 10 times that many!

literally...1 ceu for 20 questions in arborist magazine, I would need to answer 600 questions to satisfy my ceu requirement, worse yet the compendium series....figure that out!!! anywhere from 10 - 20 past articles with atleast 15 - 20 questions each....roughly 350 to 400 plus questions gaining you 4 - 8 ceu`s

how can this be, better yet how ridiculous!!!! 30 Ceu`s the way the ISA does it should get you 6yrs or more!! Im thinking it would be better to just retake the whole test again, it wasnt that hard!

BTW, I do agree the additional certs they`re coming up with are ridiculous, Clearance & I spoke of this years ago along with them being a money grab, boy we were unpopular then uhh? now people are seeing they are just like a union.....worse even! & TCIA.....dont even get me started with the crap they`re promoting.....accredited business.....please!! CTSP...Joke!

It really saddens me to know that they`re so desperate that they`ll conjure up anything as a cert. & Seer I hope you dont even try to back this garbage or the bolts from the blue.....might be lightening headed for you! any way to take a trade with good pay potential & undermine it with mandatory meaningless certs. and Seer......cmon groundworker certification, LOL requirements 40 hrs rake & broom time!

WORSE YET...........most including myself are members of this crap!! maybe if we all quit it would send them a message!

oh BTW.............CEU`S are a ripoff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LXT................

Ya see lxt, I was thinking the opposite, just today actually. Don't get me wrong I'm in no mood to argue but I like the idea of having to learn more in order to keep your cert. I got a pamphlet from a green industry show in Rochester this coming January in the mail today. Some of the classes looked pretty neat but I was hmmin and hawinn about the price tag and the time of year till I saw that they gave ceu's for attendance. I got right on the phone to my certified partner and asked if he was down, seeing as he needs to fill 29 ceu's in the next 2 years and he was all about it. Good info and it helps keep his cert. I look at it as the ISA kinda forcing you to do stuff you probably should be doing already. I don't think everything is right with them by any means, and I'm certain a majority of their motivation is monetary, but forcing a CA to continue his education isn't necessarily a bad thing IMO.

 

[treeseer]

Y I got a pamphlet from a green industry show in Rochester this coming January in the mail today. Some of the classes looked pretty neat but I was hmmin and hawinn about the price tag and the time of year till I saw that they gave ceu's for attendance. .

Go to Boston instead for NEGrows--that'll be a show!

lxt if you are getting sticker shock then shop around, and keep testing on the ceu articles that is 18 of the 30 you need right there $0. Yer math needs help but i aint got the time. :monkey:

btw accredited companies and ctsp are good certs, if you make the effort.
ask those who have made the effort; they are glad they did.

yeah i can back bolts from the blue--do you have anything coherent to say?

 

[zopi]

Any question you ask, which begins with "why do they" or "why don't they"

the answer is..money...

In the lumber industry, there is no law rule or other impediment to me, as a sawyer inspecting grading and stamping my own lumber, except smoke and mirrors put up by big industry...and all because "they" (yeah, I know.)
are protecting their profits...

think a bit and it's not too hard to expand that line of logic to university education...but it is easy to oversimplify...

The best school is a log...with a student on one end and a teacher on the other...often in our case..literally.

 

[treevet]

http://on-line-seminars.com

FREE credits/seminars.....now no excuse or complaints in learning high quality up to date info.

ISA certif. like wine gets better with the years.

But if you tire of this the books and compendiums and vids. available thru the ISA are ALL great as I have spent tons of money on them and find NONE of them lacking in quality. You don't have to buy them from the ISA but they give you a discount.

Not bad being to use the credential sometimes as well. Many properties you won't even step on if you do not have it.

PS. Congrats on certifying LXT don't put it down til you've worn it for a while

PPS. Once you've been in it for a while.....how hard are take downs anyway...yawn.

 

[beastmaster]

I've procrastinated, and now have to get all my CEU's in the next 6 months. Works been a little slow this last year and the money is going to hurt a little. I plan on buying the little book sets they sell at an inflated price and start kicking them out. I had to give up my ISA membership as I didn't have the extra money so I don't receive the magazine anymore so no free CEU's. Does any one know if I can get CEU's for college courses?(tree related) I like the fact you need CEU's ,thats a good thing, we need to keep learning, but their motivation seem more money orientated then promoting education. Just my opinion.

 

[treeseer]

check the website; college courses get a lot; in many cases too much imo but that is another topic.

i agree with treevet but in the online forum the quality really varies but it is a free resource and there are less infomercials than before.

beast if you knew what went into those books you may not call their value inflated.

 

[beastmaster]

http://on-line-seminars.com

FREE credits/seminars.....now no excuse or complaints in learning high quality up to date info.

Treevet, thanks a lot for that site. I'll definitely make use of it. Well worth checking out

 

[treevet]

http://on-line-seminars.com

FREE credits/seminars.....now no excuse or complaints in learning high quality up to date info.

Treevet, thanks a lot for that site. I'll definitely make use of it. Well worth checking out

You're welcome beastmaster, good luck with them they are good material.

 

[sharkfin12us]

Isa

I was a certified arborist for 18 years and just dropped out of the program this past August. I'm no longer a member of the ISA either.

Keep sending in the money!




/

I had some one from ISA call me during winter time i think.Asking me questions on what might make me interested in joining ISA membership.I kept telling him point blank money situation.He kept probing me with different questions what might make me more interested in staying a member.It was really annoying becasuse after repeating the same statement to this person that it is money situation.That is 125.00 dollars they are not getting.I mean i talked to him for about 15 minutes and he asked me all these questiongs.Just want your money.I guess there are alot of x members now because of the recession.

 

[Shaun Bowler]

If we do not start to send letters to the ISA this situation will only get worse.
I will commit right now to send a letter-via USPS to the ISA to bring this BS to their attension.
I hope everyone else can commit to "just one letter."

 

[capetrees]

Then who needs them?

 

[treeseer]

I will commit right now to send a letter-via USPS to the ISA to bring this BS to their attension.

What positive suggestion would you make? Aside from nominate Sunrise for Cert committee. opcorn:

 

[treevet]

Then who needs them?

I have been a member since 1970. Learned a lot thru their mags over the years. Where else you gonna get credentials. I have had complaints as well but it is the only (and the first) game in town. What is the big complaint here? They charge $120 a year or whatever. Ya gotta spend money to make money.

They, like everything else, are likely working with a diminishing staff. Without them what would we have. Go to the door and tell the HO....."I am real good and I know lots of stuff".

 

[Shaun Bowler]

I would tell them they are losing their original base.
The reasons we put in our blood, sweat, and tears to develop credibility.
When I first started out-1977 we were like Carnival Workers.
Smoke,Smoke, Beers and Coke!
I Thank God I stuck with this profession through its evolution.
Nevertheless, it seems,the people we send our dues to have now become the representitives of the companies we buy our tools from.
The companies we but our trucks, chippers, insurance, from.
Has anyone ever asked what those people what their pay/benefit package is?
That should be in the ISA information we receive yearly.
It is a benefit to us all to have this ISA base.
However, I believe it has become a entity, all its own.
The peole who are employed their need to show us where the money we send them is going.
Every day in the media we see more and more people(Corparations) use money in ways it was not intended for.
They are going to jail.
BOSTON TEA PARTY ANYONE?:greenchainsaw:

 

[Sunrise Guy]

What positive suggestion would you make? Aside from nominate Sunrise for Cert committee. opcorn:

I would accept, and I would kick some :censored: at ISA. I was once chosen to be on a textbook selection committee, down here in Austin,Texas. If you know the politics down here, as it applies to state-chosen textbooks, then you know what bs it truly is. I lasted one day before I told off the chairperson, as the rest of the committee looked on in shock, and then I walked out, never to return.

In regards to CEU's: They are well worth it, as I see it. I learn a great deal from taking those little magazine quizzes, going to seminars, taking classes, etc.

Learning is my greatest joy in life, besides a few other select activities :hmm3grin2orange:, and when I learn about developments relevant to my chosen profession, I benefit as do my clients and their trees.

Once you get into the CEU swing of things, you will find that it's easy to keep them coming in. I also need CEU's, yearly, for my pesticide license, and that's no problem, either. The key is to NOT wait until the last minute to try and get them. I have around sixty on my AU account at ISA, and the drag there is that they don't carry over when I renew this December. That will be about twenty-four gone down the tube but, again, it was to my benefit to learn whatever I did while acquiring them. I will take a class with ACRT most likely in '10. I believe it's about 42 CEU's for five days. Yeah, it will set me back about a G, after travel, hotel and class cost, but so what? If you are sweating bucks so close that you worry about a grand, maybe you're in the wrong business or need a good class on holding to a budget.

 

[treevet]

Great post Sunrise. I used to follow Al Shigo all over the country to get my CEU's before he passed. What is a grand anyway. That can be made in less than a day.

 

[Koa Man]

I let my CA expire at the end of 2004 after 12 years. My customers don't care whether or not I am or am not a CA. I never "lost" a job because I am no longer a CA.

What irritated me about the whole CA thing was that people who never climbed a tree, much less pruned one, was being certified simply because they passed a written test. It is like someone saying I am a certified welder. I never actually welded anything but I read all the books. Would you trust that person to weld you a critical piece, like a porta wrap or life support equipment?

And don't get me started on landscape architects who tell me how to prune a tree.

 

[clearance]

What irritated me about the whole CA thing was that people who never climbed a tree, much less pruned one, was being certified simply because they passed a written test. It is like someone saying I am a certified welder. I never actually welded anything but I read all the books. Would you trust that person to weld you a critical piece, like a porta wrap or life support equipment?

Exactly my beef, years ago, on this site. Well said.