Chain Break Mania

[James Miller]

Wrong.

"Nine surface types were used for this study: dry asphalt, wet asphalt, dry concrete, wet polished concrete, wet epoxy, wet Jennite, grass, loose gravel, and an epoxy/sand surface...
This study involved four stopping maneuvers: 1) straight line, 2) curve, 3) J-turn, and 4) single lane change."

On eight of the nine surfaces, ABS outperformed non-ABS. On one of the nine (loose gravel), non-ABS won.

And that was using ABS technology from the 1990s.

Ever try decaf?

Decaf is for quitters.
I'm done with the argument. Different strokes for different folks as they say. I prefer non ABS and you prefer having it. Neither of us is going to change are opinion.

 

[CR888]

ABS ain't all the same, early ABS would not stop faster than a skilled driver not even close. Take a look at an ABS box in an S-class Benz or 7-series and compare it to a Ford or GM box. Its greatly improved 'generally' but at one point the only thing it was good for was a mother in the wet jumping on the anchors suddenly.

 

[holeycow]

I think we went through this before on another thread Mr.Miller

 

[holeycow]

I do have to say that in the one and only car I've ever owned ( my wife's actually-a Honda CRV) the ABS worked pretty well. It was light years ahead of any pickups I've ever owned or driven. The "traction control" was also decent, as it was mechanical, not electronic.


Chain brakes suck!!

 

[James Miller]

I think we went through this before on another thread Mr.Miller

Most likely. Looking good that one of those little dolmars will follow me home shortly.

 

[pioneerguy600]

I guess us old timers will be passing on the torch to clickers and blippers. Lol
One cannot work in woods without some sort of mishap. This will be my 4th decade eking out a meager existence in the woods with 8 lost time injuries so far with none that can be attributed to not repetitively being on the chainbreak.
Working with a saw in the woods is more about passion and loving almost every minute of it and waking up the next day eager to get back at it.
Some of us were cut out for it and some of us were not.
Also I think the clickers look very effeminate and hippie like. Lol

You getting enough daylight to cut up there now John? Temps look like gloves are needed.

 

[holeycow]

Ever try decaf?

yes. It is also ****.

 

[holeycow]

Most likely. Looking good that one of those little dolmars will follow me home shortly.

a 420? 421?

 

[Westboastfaller]

Yes, they are inertia driven.

Kickback that doesn't engage the brake means either the inertia wasn't high enough to trip the brake, which means it wasn't high enough to cause you injury. OR it was high enough to cause you injury, and you allowed your chain brake to become faulty by not following the testing procedures in your manual.

That statement couldn't be further from the truth.

My statement was 'generally speaking'. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, however, I have found my statement to be generally true.

Well just inside the last 30 yrs there were saws on the market that I used as new in '89 professionally such as the Husquvarna 2101 (manufacturer's production yrs: '87-'90).
They have brakes but you never would have what I call an 'inertia brake kickback'
I had some scary kickbacks comming for between the eyes that bent me so far back that I hurt my lower vertebrates. Definitely much to be said about working from the side ..as one would learn.
Anyway... I am firstly addressing your first statement of you saying that chain brakes are inertia driven?
I have always separated the early from the modern (example: production yr1996, 371XP as modern)
In the past I have separated the difference in threads between the very early and what we know today as the modern inertia chain brake. This includes saws that SHOULD activate from a 1ft drop on to it's belly and/or releasing the front grip from a standing position as the tip drops onto a solid. Then of course ' The kickback Zone' I see them as automatic & manual vs manual??
After a short stint as a creek cleaner and then onto the dry sort Buckerman on the west of coast of Vancouver Island, B.C. , I then moved into tree thinning with snag falling and deciduous control so my experience with the saws with the older brakes are both limited and very dated.
I will invite anyone with a greater mechanical understanding (or otherwise) of these early chain brakes to weigh in on this what seems to be a 'fuzzy area'.
What about the 266xp
as well the 262? Was there a difference as they were about 8yrs apart? Those were the saws I ran up to the 371xp in 1996
I just don't remember the inertia kicks that are so common with the 371/372.
Maybe I am trying to block out the fact that I was a juvenile tree spacer? I do sadly remember a 21 yrs old got killed with a company I worked for in '93. That was in Chillawack with a 266. We used 16" bars because of the steep topo. He got a kickback in the neck and had no brake on the saw.
That was also the end of Rob's company which was one of the biggest spacing company's on the coast.
This is the difference I am sure I remember...
That is, you could run these early model's without a chain brake handle and there was no inner way for it to lock up??
I know the Coast Fallers were taking them off in the 80's because they would knock them on when they had to backbar big wood. This is certainly something I could see one speaking generally about or not positivity knowing the difference.

Post is long enough just to hopefully shed more light about your first statement.

*Prehaps you could explain what you ment in greator detail in the second statement that I initially quoted in your first post?
As it stands, 'it still doesn't merit my time' so I feel the onus is on you.
Brother you certainly don't want the layman's terms of my real opinion of your statement, you really don't.

I am true about learning regardless of how one may have conducted themselves. At the end of the day it was another trick in the bag and the b.s. stays on the hill. A Faller told me that he had an old guy that would hit him in the back of the head from behind with a stick ever time he did something wrong.

If you don't take your bumps then you are going away empty handed and filed under rookieville

Are you ready for a serving ?

 

[holeycow]

That's "filed under rookieville", just to clarify..

spell-checkin' nazi on the case

 

[Sepia]

Well just inside the last 30 yrs there were saws on the market that I used as new in '89 professionally such as the Husquvarna 2101 (manufacturer's production yrs: '87-'90).
They have brakes but you never would have what I call an 'inertia brake kickback'
I had some scary kickbacks comming for between the eyes that bent me so far back that I hurt my lower vertebrates. Definitely much to be said about working from the side ..as one would learn.
Anyway... I am firstly addressing your first statement of you saying that chain brakes are inertia driven?
I have always separated the early from the modern (example: production yr1996, 371XP as modern)
In the past I have separated the difference in threads between the very early and what we know today as the modern inertia chain brake. This includes saws that SHOULD activate from a 1ft drop on to it's belly and/or releasing the front grip from a standing position as the tip drops onto a solid. Then of course ' The kickback Zone' I see them as automatic & manual vs manual??
After a short stint as a creek cleaner and then onto the dry sort Buckerman on the west of coast of Vancouver Island, B.C. , I then moved into tree thinning with snag falling and deciduous control so my experience with the saws with the older brakes are both limited and very dated.
I will invite anyone with a greater mechanical understanding (or otherwise) of these early chain brakes to weigh in on this what seems to be a 'fuzzy area'.
What about the 266xp
as well the 266? Was there a difference as they were about 8yrs apart? Those were the saws I ran up to the 371xp in 1996
I just don't remember the inertia kicks that are so common with the 371/372.
Maybe I am trying to block out the fact that I was a juvenile tree spacer? I do sadly remember a 21 yrs old got killed with a company I worked for in '93. That was in Chillawack with a 266. We used 16" bars because of the steep topo. He got a kickback in the neck and had no brake on the saw.
That was also the end of Rob's company which was one of the biggest spacing company's on the coast.
This is the difference I am sure I remember...
That is, you could run these early model's without a chain brake handle and there was no inner way for it to lock up??
I know the Coast Fallers were taking them off in the 80's because they would knock them on when they had to backbar big wood. This is certainly something I could see one speaking generally about or not positivity knowing the difference.

Post is long enough just to hopefully shed more light about your first statement.

*Prehaps you could explain what you ment in greator detail in the second statement that I initially quoted in your first post?
As it stands, 'it still doesn't merit my time' so I feel the onus is on you.
Brother you certainly don't want the layman's terms of my real opinion of your statement, you really don't.

I am true about learning regardless of how one may have conducted themselves. At the end of the day it was another trick in the bag and the b.s. stays on the hill. A Faller told me that he had an old guy that would hit him in the back of the head from behind with a stick ever time he did something wrong.

If you don't take your bumps then you are going away empty handed and filled under rookieville

Wbf... you REALLY should write a book. Or two... or three...

I'm being serious - you are a picasso of verbiage. Scholars would be arguing over the true message of your words for millenia.

I mean that in the most flattering way.

 

[Gypo Logger]

You getting enough daylight to cut up there now John? Temps look like gloves are needed.

About 7 hrs of enough light to work unless you want to trip over stumps in the dark, which is another reason why I click.
Perfect temperature, only 15 below now. Plus I have at least 6 bonfires going to warm wet gloves.

 

[Westboastfaller]

@hc
I completely missed your post until now but caught the auto corrections...Or perhaps me? but thanks, I appreciate it.
Definitely butchered it down the home stretch. I think it's also "greater" and not "greator" but I will eventually have people for that...haha.

 

[Sepia]

@hc
I completely missed your post until now but caught the auto corrections...Or perhaps me? but thanks, I appreciate it.
Definitely butchered it down the home stretch. I think it's also "greater" and not "greator" but I will eventually have people for that...haha.

You are going to need one heII of an editor to decipher what is accidental and what is intentional - you better pay them, well!

 

[Huskybill]

I had my first 2100 husky I ordered with a brake when they didn’t come with brakes. One kick back I ever had with the 2100 I was at the bottom of bucking a 24” diameter trunk when she bound up on the chain and came straight out of the cut horizontally into my ankle area in my heavy leather boot uppers, at the same time the brake came on it saved the brunt of the force from hitting me. It’s the only time it ever backed out of a cut. We gain respect on what can happen. It’s expect the unexpected. We learn to read the tree on the ground to see what angle it’s on. How to buck it up safely.

I learned to keep my mind on what I’m doing and not think about anything else. I block out everything around me. It’s me focusing on what I’m doing with the saw.

 

[Westboastfaller]

Wbf... you REALLY should write a book. Or two... or three...

I'm being serious - you are a picasso of verbiage. Scholars would be arguing over the true message of your words for millenia.

I mean that in the most flattering way.

And I figured that was a book?
Yes and don't forget auto correct.
I can't take credit for all those Jems.

You are going to need one heII of an editor to decipher what is accidental and what is intentional - you better pay them, well!

unfortunately it would be that I would have to do that and dyslexia is a bitçh.
Especially bigger words on the cheat bar get me too.
I have gone back on posts and I Still had the option to change the joke but then thought...it's not what I meant but I like it just as much ..haha

 

[Huskybill]

Chainsaw Safety,,,

Never use too long of a bar in smaller diameter wood. I took three saws cutting, a 2100/24”bar, 266/18” bar, 240/16” bar. Match the bar length to the wood on hand.
We’re not going to cut a 12” oak with a 24” or 30” bar. Some days I put the 16” or 18” bar on the 2100 that was destroying 12” oak. Besafe.

 

[MacAttack]

When i worked at the tree service, the climbers used the brakes on their climbing saws religiously, always popped them on after every cut when they had to move around. The ground saws rarely got the brakes engaged.

To be honest the saws didn't even seem like the most dangerous things on that job. The chippers were the most dangerous, and the greatest number of injuries and close calls were from the damn hedge trimmers.

 

[Huskybill]

I can’t count the number of times I cut the power cord on my hedge trimmers. I got like Edward Sizzor hands trimming hedges with a chain saw. Then I got a gas powered hedge trimmer. I moved to a bigger yard go figure.

A couple of years ago there was a tree guy killed by his chipper. Not good. Maybe the chipper manufacturing industry needs more built in safety features. If your clothes get caught up in the branches they can drag you into the chipper. Maybe an emergency stop rail over head or stop rails on both sides would shut the machine down. Even stop buttons in holes inside the chute would help.

The most dangerous jobs in the world is, #1 coal mining, #2 logging, now is the time we don’t want to be high on the list.

 

[Gypo Logger]

I can’t count the number of times I cut the power cord on my hedge trimmers. I got like Edward Sizzor hands trimming hedges with a chain saw. Then I got a gas powered hedge trimmer. I moved to a bigger yard go figure.

A couple of years ago there was a tree guy killed by his chipper. Not good. Maybe the chipper manufacturing industry needs more built in safety features. If your clothes get caught up in the branches they can drag you into the chipper. Maybe an emergency stop rail over head or stop rails on both sides would shut the machine down. Even stop buttons in holes inside the chute would help.

The most dangerous jobs in the world is, #1 coal mining, #2 logging, now is the time we don’t want to be high on the list.

I thought being a Brinks guard was the most dangerous job.