Chain Sharp at a Glance

[Kenskip1]

So here is the situation. I'm at a friends house down the street.A friend of his stops buy for a minute saying that he has a tree he needs cutting.Says that he just had his chain sharpened.Casually I ask if I could see the chain. Sure and he hands it to me.I asked, What did he charge you? $15 was the reply.Told him that this chain isn't going to cut very well. I will add that this was a Oregon 91 series safety chain.His saw was a Poulan. Told him that the person who supposedly sharpened it did not know what he was doing. The gullett was shiny and the tooth was hardly touched. He is getting pissed now.He asked me what was wrong. One,is the man needs to trim his stone.Two,he needs to set the head to the right angles.He asks if I could do better. My reply,"Hell Yes". If you are not happy bring it over. I tried to explain that a sharp cutter has a dull finish.His were all shiny.Anyway,he spun his wheels. Was I wrong? He asked my opinion, and I gave it to him.I have been sharpening chains for the past 20+ years.Anyway I would like to hear your reply, Ken
I will add that the rakers had never been touched.

 

[Philbert]

The parts of the cutter that do the cutting are: the top plate edge, the side plate edge, and the corner where those 2 meet. They have to be 'sharp'. A correctly adjusted depth gauge is also important, or the sharp cutter will skip over the wood like it's buttered glass.

Lots of folks focus on the gullet, but the gullets do not cut - they help to clear chips. I see guys obsessed with 'big gullets' and I can hear the chain muttering, "Hey! Buddy! Up here! My cutting edges are up here!". Gullets get cleaned out after sharpening, to help carry chips (and, frankly, for appearance).

As far as 'shiny' - when I sharpen with a file or a grinder, I am always looking for 'fresh' metal being exposed where the cutter is contacted. I might call that 'shiny' or 'bright'. If I don't see that, it might mean that that cutter needs an additional pass with the file, or that the grinder wheel gets re-set a little.

How do I know if the edges are 'sharp'? One way is to look for light reflected off the edges (this may be what you are referring to as 'shiny'?). On a 'perfectly sharp' edge, both planes will meet at an infinitely fine point, and no light will be reflected. The edge will look black. If there is a a flat or rounded edge where they meet, a bright light (sunlight, bright lamp, etc.) will be reflected, and a white line will be visible. Guys here on this forum taught me the word 'glint' to describe it.


Philbert

 

[Westboastfaller]

wrong? It would appear.
He really needs to grow up or you reallly need to polish your deliveries?
This is just a chain that he didn't even do himself? Or did he? Or it's someone he holds in high regard? I have only experienced that with a friend venting to me about a woman and sometimes it's not an invatation to lay it all out.
But this is about a chain. Seems like he's kicking demonds under the bed. Well if it wasn't you then it's him and if it's him ..
Steer clear.

 

[Kenskip1]

Philbert, To put it all inside a nutshell,if you have a shiny or glossy file, you have a dull file. A dull file will not sharpen a cutter or anything.A grinding wheel that is not dressed occasionally will not properly sharpen a cutter.
Next on the list is if the grinding wheel is filled with oil dirt dust or a combination of all three. I dress a wheel after doing one side of the chain. I can feel the difference after a dressing.I will note that I wash chains in mix prior to grinding. I have a difficult time putting things into words,but all of my sharpened chains have never had complaints.

 

[HarleyT]

Are we talking about shiny files or cutters? Sharpened chains are shiny on the "ground" surfaces...

 

[Kenskip1]

Sharpened chains have a dull finish. A dull file will reflect light and not sharpen a chain properly.Read Neil Soderstrom's book "Chainsaw Savvy" He explains it very clearly.I should not have started this thread.

 

[U&A]

The parts of the cutter that do the cutting are: the top plate edge, the side plate edge, and the corner where those 2 meet. They have to be 'sharp'. A correctly adjusted depth gauge is also important, or the sharp cutter will skip over the wood like it's buttered glass.

Lots of folks focus on the gullet, but the gullets do not cut - they help to clear chips. I see guys obsessed with 'big gullets' and I can hear the chain muttering, "Hey! Buddy! Up here! My cutting edges are up here!". Gullets get cleaned out after sharpening, to help carry chips (and, frankly, for appearance).

As far as 'shiny' - when I sharpen with a file or a grinder, I am always looking for 'fresh' metal being exposed where the cutter is contacted. I might call that 'shiny' or 'bright'. If I don't see that, it might mean that that cutter needs an additional pass with the file, or that the grinder wheel gets re-set a little.

How do I know if the edges are 'sharp'? One way is to look for light reflected off the edges (this may be what you are referring to as 'shiny'?). On a 'perfectly sharp' edge, both planes will meet at an infinitely fine point, and no light will be reflected. The edge will look black. If there is a a flat or rounded edge where they meet, a bright light (sunlight, bright lamp, etc.) will be reflected, and a white line will be visible. Guys here on this forum taught me the word 'glint' to describe it.

View attachment 682240
Philbert

Well said


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[HarleyT]

Sharpened chains have a dull finish. A dull file will reflect light and not sharpen a chain properly.Read Neil Soderstrom's book "Chainsaw Savvy" He explains it very clearly.I should not have started this thread.

I didn't realize I was blaspheming against someone's "scripture".
Sharpened cutters are shiny....

 

[HarleyT]

You can see scratches of irregularity from the grains of the grinding stone.
Yeah this kinda is a stupid thread....

 

[HarleyT]

One just needs to look and see what he is doing, normally. And know what the angles he is trying to achieve.

 

[U&A]

Bottom line,

If you remove metal from.....metal in ANY FASHION with a file to create a sharp edge It will “lighten” the color or make it “shiny”. I wont argue about this . I have been a welder for 15 years. This is common sense for gosh sakes.

Not trying offend anyone but why in the WORLD are we questioning this...!


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[HarleyT]

Yeah, I am wondering this as well. Grinding with a loaded up stone/wheel will easily darken-burn the cutter, but a proper cleaned up stone leaves a bright/shiny glint.
Or have I been living in an "opposite" universe for the last 30 years?

 

[dmb2613]

hey HT you can burn it with a clean stone too

 

[HarleyT]

well......
I never have tried...

I guess one can do most anything if he tries hard enough!!!

 

[cuinrearview]

well......
I never have tried...

I guess one can do most anything if he tries hard enough!!!

Loling

 

[North by Northwest]

Bahaha , you guys must be really bored !

 

[Analyst Man]

[QUOTE="Philbert, How do I know if the edges are 'sharp'? One way is to look for light reflected off the edges (this may be what you are referring to as 'shiny'?). On a 'perfectly sharp' edge, both planes will meet at an infinitely fine point, and no light will be reflected. The edge will look black. If there is a a flat or rounded edge where they meet, a bright light (sunlight, bright lamp, etc.) will be reflected, and a white line will be visible. Guys here on this forum taught me the word 'glint' to describe it. [/QUOTE]

One of my father's pet peeves was dull knifes. He taught me to hold the knife with the cutting edge up under a light and look for "shiny" spots. He said these were flat areas on the edge that needed to be removed with a stone. So what you're saying makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Philbert]

Philbert, To put it all inside a nutshell,if you have a shiny or glossy file, you have a dull file. A dull file will not sharpen a cutter or anything.A grinding wheel that is not dressed occasionally will not properly sharpen a cutter.
Next on the list is if the grinding wheel is filled with oil dirt dust or a combination of all three. I dress a wheel after doing one side of the chain. I can feel the difference after a dressing.I will note that I wash chains in mix prior to grinding. I have a difficult time putting things into words,but all of my sharpened chains have never had complaints.

Kenskip1, I agree with everything you say in this post.

A dull file will reflect light off of its many edges, just like a dull chain will in my illustration. And I am a big believer in frequently dressing my grinding wheels and in cleaning chains prior to grinding, even though I have taken a lot of grief over that in forums like this.

I think that we may be having some mis-communication on the 'dull' or 'shiny' cutters terms, but if your chains cut, that is the best way to determine if they are sharp, IMO.

Philbert

 

[Kenskip1]

Philbert, Thanks for your understanding words. Yes at times I do have difficulties describing my methods.And yes my chains do cut well.I had my Husky 51 out last week.Nothing but chips. The man I was cutting the downed dry oak was impressed.Anyway my method works and I will continue to do it as I mentioned.Again, thanks for the kind understanding word. Ken

 

[Husky Man]

Yeah, I am wondering this as well. Grinding with a loaded up stone/wheel will easily darken-burn the cutter, but a proper cleaned up stone leaves a bright/shiny glint.
Or have I been living in an "opposite" universe for the last 30 years?

I'm staying out of the Chain Sharpening discussion, But I have suspected that you resided in an alternate universe for some time now


Doug