Chain sharpening

[Del_]

Don't think theirs a better video then this.

He really see-saws that file a lot.

The camera at 5:48 really shows it. And again at 6:30.

At 8:58 he talks about a used chain and it being used up. I can see the witness mark and I have good luck using a chain all the way to the witness mark. I say that chain has at least two and may even four more sharpenings left. It would be a great chain to put aside after sharpening and then putting it in use when a high risk of hitting tramp metal in a log comes along.

I like the guy. It's a good video.

Nobody is perfect.

Except me.

 

[Del_]

i had to do some work on my Echo everyday saw today. finally got around to it. thot it was a simple matter of chain back on drive and onto bar. but alas,... was i ever wrong!

stuck tight and locked up as as good as the Frozen North in middle of January!

thot i would also give it a quick sharpening, it was in need... but then soon wondered if it was time for a new chain...

That chain has half of it's life left.

 

[Backyard Lumberjack]

soon i had it sorted out as to what went wrong... don't ask me! . i know none of you have ever experienced such happening to you! with some effort i did get the links to move... bedrudgingly!! some well placed anti-seize and more progess. but it was a pick and hammer affair. would it ever run smooth again? slowly i made progress. enuff to sharpen the chisels. i just run the stock chisel cut or close. chain was dull. very dull. how dull? way too dull! don't ask me how i knew.... 3 kisses of the chain file proved to be time well spent. i did not have to do anything with the rakers. i kept the chain tension as tight as i could and still have a chain ok to run on the bar. and low rpms, too. hone in the ruff pin! just to get it spinning... til the oil once again returned to the bar! all in all, that went well... and soon enuff i was making big chips galore. cut up 2 piles of pecan and one smaller of campwood pine. the pecan for offset smoking... chicken up next!




some of the smaller bits of drop from the pecan went on to today's campfire....

 

[Backyard Lumberjack]

That chain has half of it's life left.

not if the links are locked up!

 

[Backyard Lumberjack]

Two basic teeth types are Chisel and Semi Chisel. Chisel cuts smoother and faster, but doesn't stay sharp well in anything other then clean wood. Semi chisel holds up a bit better, but doesn't cut quite as well.

I run chisel on everything myself

i try to do it KISS!

 

[Backyard Lumberjack]

Wear learther gloves.,,,,,,

nothing wrong with that advice!

 

[Backyard Lumberjack]

From the above Oregon guide you can see that generally 3/8 lopro uses a 5/32 file,
.325 uses a 3/16 file, & 3/8 uses a 7/32 file.
Some manufacturers specify a metric file.
Towards the end of a chains life it can work well to change to a smaller metric or 11/64 or 13/64 file to maintain the desired hook

i have several sets of files. specific for each of the chain sizes i run... good chart!

 

[Backyard Lumberjack]

I’ve slowly given up on all forms of guides or ‘two-in one’ systems etc. Just memorize what a sharp cutter should look like from the side and aim for that. Replace files often so you are always using a sharp one. Take your time. Have good light. Use a vice to hold the bar.

i like my guide, gives me some reference for angle control...

 

[Backyard Lumberjack]

I prefer a file thats a little bigger then recommended and file in three directions, down, back and then up to get under the top plate to create and break off a burr. Just like sharpening a knife, if you are not raising a burr, you are not getting that tooth sharp.

i mostly filed back and up today. kiss in the new edge... 3 passes for the try!

 

[Del_]

not if the links are locked up!

Take two small vice grip pliers and put one each on the drive tangs on each side of the locked up link. Give them a drop of oil and then work them with the pliers. Don't mar the tangs with the pliers if you can help it. Once you get them loose enough to follow the contour of the bar and around the bar tip run the chain on the saw without cutting just to loosen it up more. Maybe mark the tooth with a magic marker on it's top so you can come back and check.

 

[vizette]

He really see-saws that file a lot.

The camera at 5:48 really shows it. And again at 6:30.

At 8:58 he talks about a used chain and it being used up. I can see the witness mark and I have good luck using a chain all the way to the witness mark. I say that chain has at least two and may even four more sharpenings left. It would be a great chain to put aside after sharpening and then putting it in use when a high risk of hitting tramp metal in a log comes along.

I like the guy. It's a good video.

Nobody is perfect.

Except me.

Agreed, keep goin' until you get to the witness marks. I've seen that video before and mostly like it, he did a good job.

The only gripe I have is the "teeth have to be the same length" bit. A lot of videos have this myth, and it's just not true. You don't have to file the same number of strokes, you don't have to match the cutters - as long as you set the depth gauges properly! The only time I'd say count strokes is if you were in the field and only had a round file and were going for a "good enough to finish the job" filing after hitting something.

 

[GrizG]

Don't think theirs a better video then this.

I think there are better, more technically accurate videos on YouTube.

His cheese example is flawed... it takes a left and right cutter together to form a full chip. If there is swarf forming from a single cutter it's half chip...

See this video for a better description... at about a minute in he starts the process description.


Not sure why you need to mark a tooth... you should be able to tell by looking at the teeth whether they've been sharpened.

The file looks to be too big judging by the sharpened curve of the side plate, i.e., the hook, as compared to the witness marks.

The tooth length discussion is also flawed... You don't need the teeth to be the same length for them to cut the same amount. This as the tooth rocks back due to pressure on the tip and the depth gauge (raker) controls the thickness of the chip. It won't make a curved cut if one side's teeth are longer but it will make a curved cut if one side's teeth are duller than the other side... a situation that happens if you nick rock or metal while cutting.

See this Game of Logging video for a good video on how a chain cuts... nothing here contradicts the other one.

 

[Goat boy]

soon i had it sorted out as to what went wrong... don't ask me! . i know none of you have ever experienced such happening to you! with some effort i did get the links to move... bedrudgingly!! some well placed anti-seize and more progess. but it was a pick and hammer affair. would it ever run smooth again? slowly i made progress. enuff to sharpen the chisels. i just run the stock chisel cut or close. chain was dull. very dull. how dull? way too dull! don't ask me how i knew.... 3 kisses of the chain file proved to be time well spent. i did not have to do anything with the rakers. i kept the chain tension as tight as i could and still have a chain ok to run on the bar. and low rpms, too. hone in the ruff pin! just to get it spinning... til the oil once again returned to the bar! all in all, that went well... and soon enuff i was making big chips galore. cut up 2 piles of pecan and one smaller of campwood pine. the pecan for offset smoking... chicken up next!

View attachment 1050997
View attachment 1050998View attachment 1050999View attachment 1051000

some of the smaller bits of drop from the pecan went on to today's campfire....
View attachment 1051001

soon i had it sorted out as to what went wrong... don't ask me! . i know none of you have ever experienced such happening to you! with some effort i did get the links to move... bedrudgingly!! some well placed anti-seize and more progess. but it was a pick and hammer affair. would it ever run smooth again? slowly i made progress. enuff to sharpen the chisels. i just run the stock chisel cut or close. chain was dull. very dull. how dull? way too dull! don't ask me how i knew.... 3 kisses of the chain file proved to be time well spent. i did not have to do anything with the rakers. i kept the chain tension as tight as i could and still have a chain ok to run on the bar. and low rpms, too. hone in the ruff pin! just to get it spinning... til the oil once again returned to the bar! all in all, that went well... and soon enuff i was making big chips galore. cut up 2 piles of pecan and one smaller of campwood pine. the pecan for offset smoking... chicken up next!

View attachment 1050997
View attachment 1050998View attachment 1050999View attachment 1051000

some of the smaller bits of drop from the pecan went on to today's campfire....
View attachment 1051001

Guessing it was an OIL problem? I try to remember to watch if oil is slinging off. So far never had that problem. My Stihl 025 if it needs gas it needs chain oil. Easy. My Dewalt battery saw bathes itself in oil and when the battery gets low the oil is low. Both have good designs but just because the oil tank is full doesn't mean the chain is getting oil. As long as I keep living on my wooded property it will probably happen to me. Senior moments happen daily.

 

[Del_]

Agreed, keep goin' until you get to the witness marks. I've seen that video before and mostly like it, he did a good job.

The only gripe I have is the "teeth have to be the same length" bit. A lot of videos have this myth, and it's just not true. You don't have to file the same number of strokes, you don't have to match the cutters - as long as you set the depth gauges properly! The only time I'd say count strokes is if you were in the field and only had a round file and were going for a "good enough to finish the job" filing after hitting something.

Exactly.

With the teeth being of different lengths not being a problem:

I agree.

You are touching on the subject of 'progressive depth gauge filing', a very important point that was not brought up in the video.

If any of you guys in this thread don't know what progressive depth gauge filing is, you need to look into it.

Basically progressive depth gauge says that the shorter the tooth, the more the depth gauge needs to be reduced in height. Starting at .025 when new and maybe going as far as .050 near the end of tooth life. Someone check my .050 number please.

Progressive depth gauge filing guides are available and is something that has been discussed here in depth in past threads. Look into it.

 

[North by Northwest]

Guessing it was an OIL problem? I try to remember to watch if oil is slinging off. So far never had that problem. My Stihl 025 if it needs gas it needs chain oil. Easy. My Dewalt battery saw bathes itself in oil and when the battery gets low the oil is low. Both have good designs but just because the oil tank is full doesn't mean the chain is getting oil. As long as I keep living on my wooded property it will probably happen to me. Senior moments happen daily.

A bar that has run dry & overheated will often gall within the rivits & side plates ! Reoiling & pliers & exercising the teeth in question often resolves the issue if the bar groove has not been damaged also . Such a chain becomes a spare , since often the metallurgy of the tooth can been altered also making it more brittle or less abrasion resistant effecting the cutting edges & the tang !

 

[lone wolf]

i had to do some work on my Echo everyday saw today. finally got around to it. thot it was a simple matter of chain back on drive and onto bar. but alas,... was i ever wrong!

stuck tight and locked up as as good as the Frozen North in middle of January!
View attachment 1050990
thot i would also give it a quick sharpening, it was in need... but then soon wondered if maybe
it was time for a new chain...

Smack it back with a rubber hammer put it back on the saw loose and run it till it wears in .

 

[North by Northwest]

I think there are better, more technically accurate videos on YouTube.

His cheese example is flawed... it takes a left and right cutter together to form a full chip. If there is swarf forming from a single cutter it's half chip...

See this video for a better description... at about a minute in he starts the process description.


Not sure why you need to mark a tooth... you should be able to tell by looking at the teeth whether they've been sharpened.

The file looks to be too big judging by the sharpened curve of the side plate, i.e., the hook, as compared to the witness marks.

The tooth length discussion is also flawed... You don't need the teeth to be the same length for them to cut the same amount. This as the tooth rocks back due to pressure on the tip and the depth gauge (raker) controls the thickness of the chip. It won't make a curved cut if one side's teeth are longer but it will make a curved cut if one side's teeth are duller than the other side... a situation that happens if you nick rock or metal while cutting.

See this Game of Logging video for a good video on how a chain cuts... nothing here contradicts the other one.

Agree with your assertion Griz on the tooth length not effecting the rate of cut or causation of cutting crooked . I can cut with teeth right almost at the witness mark . The depth of cut is controlled buy the depth gauge or raker setting . Cutting crooked is more often due to one side cutter being less sharp than the other side , doesn't take much to rock a few teeth or the bar rails them self not being square . Teeth that are shorter obviously are not in the wood ( depth of cut) unless you shorten the depth guage accordingly so that they cut equally with the longer teeth. As for marking your chain , us a little longer in the tooth sometimes use this when multiple numbers of chains are being sharpened or when your just giving a rather sharp chain a quick lick between fueling . A experienced filer can judge sharpness by eye or feel with your fingernail on the working point brother . File sizing is preference depending on the hook or gullet , I prefer a little undersized . Old Harvey has filed plenty of chains as has Billy , however both have their filing preferences , which are slightly different . I both square & round grind & hand file depending on the wood application or weather conditions . Frozen wood can challenge the best of chains or sharpenings . I file or grind around 20 to 30 chains a month for the last 20 yrs for friends & customers even during the past pandemic lol. !

 

[The Shooters Apprentice]

i mostly filed back and up today. kiss in the new edge... 3 passes for the try!

It takes a little getting used to, but an old logger showed me and explained filing down back and up and once you figure it out it produces a far superior tooth edge in my opinion.

 

[North by Northwest]

It takes a little getting used to, but an old logger showed me and explained filing down back and up and once you figure it out it produces a far superior tooth edge in my opinion.

The tetter totter up & down does quicken cleaning up a rocked tooth , also ensures a very keen edge on the working corner . I often do a quick lick on my bucking skip chains & milling chains in this manner .

 

[Seachaser]

soon i had it sorted out as to what went wrong... don't ask me! . i know none of you have ever experienced such happening to you! with some effort i did get the links to move... bedrudgingly!! some well placed anti-seize and more progess. but it was a pick and hammer affair. would it ever run smooth again? slowly i made progress. enuff to sharpen the chisels. i just run the stock chisel cut or close. chain was dull. very dull. how dull? way too dull! don't ask me how i knew.... 3 kisses of the chain file proved to be time well spent. i did not have to do anything with the rakers. i kept the chain tension as tight as i could and still have a chain ok to run on the bar. and low rpms, too. hone in the ruff pin! just to get it spinning... til the oil once again returned to the bar! all in all, that went well... and soon enuff i was making big chips galore. cut up 2 piles of pecan and one smaller of campwood pine. the pecan for offset smoking... chicken up next!

View attachment 1050997
View attachment 1050998View attachment 1050999View attachment 1051000

some of the smaller bits of drop from the pecan went on to today's campfire....
View attachment 1051001

Pecan is the toughest wood I cut.