climbing-tearing up your body-how long can we do it for!?

[Raymond]

Since you asked .....

RAISE YOUR PRICES....

I AM 49, been climbing profesionally since 81... graduated college in 86 and have done tree work as a full time profession since then. I do almost all the climbing, and make a decent living... Occasionally I'll subcontract a contract climber or 75' bucket truck, and use the local crane companies when the work is there.

I used to use my own strength and hard work to power through jobs while charging next to nothing for the work... Worked so hard with so little to show for it... Working with old beat up trucks and chippers. There were other local companies that would just walk away from estimates without even giving a price if they found out I was bidding on it too.

THAT SUCKED!!!

After i got Lyme in 98, I just couldn't work that hard anymore.. so I raised my prices, did more advertising and it all went so much better. Now I run a 14' chip truck with a 2007 Brush bandit 1590 (with winch) and a 2003 Rayco super RG 50 grinder... bought an 97 GMC altec LR IV, last Feb as well... At only 55' it doesn;t get out that much though.. All is paid for...

If you are only making $1000 on a good day, and you can climb as well as you say,... then you are probably underpricing. Severly. $2000-2500 should be a good day. $1,200-1,500 average even in this economy!

When you raise your prices you can pay your men better and therefore get better men, as well as buy some decent equipment and put some cash away etc..

12hrs/day x 6 days/week is over working the body.. Find a contract climber to do the big trees and put enough $ on the monsters to pay for the crane... Learn to accurately fall trees and get up on the latest climbing gear and techniques.. Give yourself fallow periods.. vacations or plow snow or whatever... let the body R&R..

I AM MUCH faster that I was 16 years ago when I was 33... SO much faster..
And so much more profitable...

Now as far as "feeling stupid doing yoga"... Get over that. My girl is a yoga teacher and she kicks my butt... She's hard to keep up with... Ripped and unstopable... When I can barely get out of bed in the morning, she's on her way to the gym for 30+ minutes on the eliptical and then swims a mile at 7:30 AM...

So find a good yoga studio and class. And if you want to meet a good woman, you'll be outnumberred 8:1.. Take your pick.. They are awesome women... And after doing yoga with her on weekends for the past two months, I have never been in as good physical conditioning coming into mid March as I AM right now..

PM me with your # if you want to talk.

:computer: I think your figures are just a little high but Man I totally agree with ya.
But what do we do about the unemployed/now tree dorks running around under bidding everything and the damn near unemployed people who have no choice but to go with these underbidding scabs?

You know how hard that was to write without getting censored?

 

[capetrees]

Blakesmaster, and capetrees,

How about your hands?

Hard to grip the rope? Get a fatter rope or use assenders. As far as hands go, I treat mine a work tools as opposed to human appendages. They have been through hell, never wear gloves, never put any lotion on them and still they work like bramd new.

 

[ropensaddle]

Just put your mind beyond the pain. I about fifteen years ago broke both collar bones smashed my left scapula and dislocated my right, punctured a lung and hairline fracture in a vertebrae, that was a painful experience. top that off with five years before that cut my right forearm to the bone getting several tendons and was only off work two months for the cut three for the other. I have pain all the time but, it is not nearly as bad as the three months recovering from the accident so I focus on that. I don't favor pain instead I work through it and is probably why I can climb disabled.

 

[grizzly2]

I think Murph's prices are good for the Philly region. Plus, some of the clients in that area should be charged more, just because they're a pain to deal with. I know, not the pain that this thread is about, but a pain none the less.

 

[Adkpk]

..........but nothing was stopping me from climbing the hill in the back yard to get to the giant pine to try out my newly arrived "Texas Tree Monkey System". I feel better now.


I was looking at that in the B**hop Cat. How did you get along with that.

Texas Tree Monkey is a keeper. I am planing to posting a thread after the weekend it's a dial-up thing.

 

[TreeTopKid]

Texas Tree Monkey is a keeper. I am planing to posting a thread after the weekend it's a dial-up thing.

Cool!

 

[Blakesmaster]

lol it is called bills.

Hahaha, good stuff rope, they won't let me rep you though. I wanna be like you when I grow up.

 

[ropensaddle]

Hahaha, good stuff rope, they won't let me rep you though. I wanna be like you when I grow up.

No you don't stay in school be a geek I now wish I had not been so proud but oh well I have a bs in common sense lol

 

[Blakesmaster]

No you don't stay in school be a geek I now wish I had not been so proud but oh well I have a bs in common sense lol

Heh. I'm not smart enough to be a geek. That's ok, 'cause tree dopes like us get the ladies.

 

[ropensaddle]

Heh. I'm not smart enough to be a geek. That's ok, 'cause tree dopes like us get the ladies.

Lol it is cause we have big trunks

 

[treemandan]

This is interesting stuff for me. In the past 2 years I've been doing more climbing than ground work and am feeling some side effects. Elbows and shoulders ache, calves, thighs and shins as well. Don't even get me started on my wrists and hands from constant saw vibes. It could be the climbing, it could be my age setting in but I don't know. Would be good to hear more stories from the vets about how they've lasted as long as they have.

he said " feeling some side effects" I am just dieing over here now " Side effects" Oh boy, I'm done.

Ha ha ha, that's funny Blakes, real funny. Let us know when you stop feeling some side effects and start feeling them all. hell, I got side effects I never even knew I had.

 

[ropensaddle]

he said " feeling some side effects" I am just dieing over here now " Side effects" Oh boy, I'm done.

Ha ha ha, that's funny Blakes, real funny. Let us know when you stop feeling some side effects and start feeling them all. hell, I got side effects I never even knew I had.

EEEEEhhhhhhhhhhhh is that you or the Dan
:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Sunrise Guy]

Good stuff man! Nice website too. You look like you run a tight ship! A model service which probably works well for you. Good stuff man, good stuff!

Hey, just a quick question about that "Live Oak that is far too bushy!" in your before and after photos page.

It definitely looks awesome, and I totally agree with you. Nice expanation too, as far as to what it needs. My only question is that when such a transformation/pruning/remodeling is needed, is it really safe to take all that out just in one sitting? Again, like i said, it looks awesome! But it seems like you took out A LOT.
I have always been told to do most of the structural big stuff, thin out the interior, but leave some of the epicormic growth, and lower branches until a second stage a year or to later once the tree recovers from such an aggressive prune?
Again, is that safe to do? Are you sure it won't shock the tree? My biggest fear too in a situation like that is all f a sudden the roots and ground are opened up to much increased light, sun, heat, and air, and then the young trees environment has totally changed, and its roots suffer from drought stress!

Anyway, you are model for us arborists. Nice pruning, and nice website.

Peace man!

Ben, in Boston

ANSI standards call for up to a 25% canopy reduction in one session. On that tree, on my site, we took about the limit and it was looking great the next year when we went back. We did not need to do much to it, the second time around, but the client had many other trees that needed work. There is a fine line between taking not enough and taking too much. I usually err on the side of leaving a bit more, but that tree seemed to be cool with a little bit more off than usual.

 

[treevet]

Just put your mind beyond the pain. I about fifteen years ago broke both collar bones smashed my left scapula and dislocated my right, punctured a lung and hairline fracture in a vertebrae, that was a painful experience. top that off with five years before that cut my right forearm to the bone getting several tendons and was only off work two months for the cut three for the other. I have pain all the time but, it is not nearly as bad as the three months recovering from the accident so I focus on that. I don't favor pain instead I work through it and is probably why I can climb disabled.

I bid a job yesterday and the neighbor just had a gypsy service come in partially remove a dead elm. They told the story of a guy climbing up a ladder and making a one handed cut while arm was around a stem. Lost grip when saw was caught in a kerf and down he went. The lady said he was really hurting then she pointed where he landed in the concrete driveway....ouch. Ambulence, and likely years of pain and disability.

I have fallen a couple of times early in my career. I liken it to being around a poisonous snake. It seems so small and insignificant. But when hit, man there is seemingly endless amounts of time in unbearable pain.

I am 60 2 weeks ago but I condition regularly. I played an hour and half of high level racquetball today after and 8 hour half takedown. Will finish tomorrow. My service has evolved to where I have my own truck crane, a 55 foot bucket and a 75 foot bucket. I can easily climb for 2 or 3 days a week if I need to.

Treat yourself right. Stay away from the boats and Harleys until you have got yourself equipment that makes the job easier and safer. (then buy em)

 

[ropensaddle]

I bid a job yesterday and the neighbor just had a gypsy service come in partially remove a dead elm. They told the story of a guy climbing up a ladder and making a one handed cut while arm was around a stem. Lost grip when saw was caught in a kerf and down he went. The lady said he was really hurting then she pointed where he landed in the concrete driveway....ouch. Ambulence, and likely years of pain and disability.

I have fallen a couple of times early in my career. I liken it to being around a poisonous snake. It seems so small and insignificant. But when hit, man there is seemingly endless amounts of time in unbearable pain.

I am 60 2 weeks ago but I condition regularly. I played an hour and half of high level racquetball today after and 8 hour half takedown. Will finish tomorrow. My service has evolved to where I have my own truck crane, a 55 foot bucket and a 75 foot bucket. I can easily climb for 2 or 3 days a week if I need to.

Treat yourself right. Stay away from the boats and Harleys until you have got yourself equipment that makes the job easier and safer. (then buy em)

Iain't too far behind ya friend good for you wish ya the best.

 

[treevet]

Thanks Rope....ditto

 

[murphy4trees]

Greenstar,

How open are you to change?

After reading your other post about freeclimbing and using the throwline once a week, I would respectfully suggest you may not be as great a climber as you think you are. You might not have ever even seen a great climber in action... Please take that as constructive criticism meant to support you in taking your life and career to the next level.. not to put you down...

I think there is a tendency for all climbers to think "I AM the best"... I used to think I was good back when I was 33... then I learned better... I remember watching Mark Chisholm footlock... first time I had ever seen it done... He was the world record holder at the time... My jaw dropped... That opened up a whole new world of possabilities for me..

For those that haven't seen world class climbers in action, I'd recommend going to a tree climbing competition..

Next recommendation (after raising prices) would be upgrading equipment.. Start with a real tree truck (forestry body chip truck) and a bigger chipper with a winch.. then maybe a bucket truck or skid loader... Stop working so hard and start working smarter...

Good luck with it..

 

[randyg]

Pain is good

Pain is nothing more than weakness leaving the body. Yea, WHATEVER. Big storm coming really gets the joints a talking. I used to choose climbing over using the bucket to avoid the extra expense of running the bucket thinking I'm making better profit margin? Now, if the bucket fits, I take the elevator. I can land 9 out of 10 branches near the chipper, butt towards the chute from the bucket. Try that climbing and that can be one heck of a work-out. Doubt I will ever stop climbing altogether. 53 now and just plan on steady slow-down over the next 20 or 30 years. Those of us who love what we do, NEVER want to stop doing what we LOVE.

Wow, that brought tears to my eyes when I read that last sentence.

 

[Greenstar]

Since you asked .....

RAISE YOUR PRICES....

I AM 49, been climbing profesionally since 81... graduated college in 86 and have done tree work as a full time profession since then. I do almost all the climbing, and make a decent living... Occasionally I'll subcontract a contract climber or 75' bucket truck, and use the local crane companies when the work is there.

I used to use my own strength and hard work to power through jobs while charging next to nothing for the work... Worked so hard with so little to show for it... Working with old beat up trucks and chippers. There were other local companies that would just walk away from estimates without even giving a price if they found out I was bidding on it too.

THAT SUCKED!!!

After i got Lyme in 98, I just couldn't work that hard anymore.. so I raised my prices, did more advertising and it all went so much better. Now I run a 14' chip truck with a 2007 Brush bandit 1590 (with winch) and a 2003 Rayco super RG 50 grinder... bought an 97 GMC altec LR IV, last Feb as well... At only 55' it doesn;t get out that much though.. All is paid for...

If you are only making $1000 on a good day, and you can climb as well as you say,... then you are probably underpricing. Severly. $2000-2500 should be a good day. $1,200-1,500 average even in this economy!

When you raise your prices you can pay your men better and therefore get better men, as well as buy some decent equipment and put some cash away etc..

12hrs/day x 6 days/week is over working the body.. Find a contract climber to do the big trees and put enough $ on the monsters to pay for the crane... Learn to accurately fall trees and get up on the latest climbing gear and techniques.. Give yourself fallow periods.. vacations or plow snow or whatever... let the body R&R..

I AM MUCH faster that I was 16 years ago when I was 33... SO much faster..
And so much more profitable...

Now as far as "feeling stupid doing yoga"... Get over that. My girl is a yoga teacher and she kicks my butt... She's hard to keep up with... Ripped and unstopable... When I can barely get out of bed in the morning, she's on her way to the gym for 30+ minutes on the eliptical and then swims a mile at 7:30 AM...

So find a good yoga studio and class. And if you want to meet a good woman, you'll be outnumberred 8:1.. Take your pick.. They are awesome women... And after doing yoga with her on weekends for the past two months, I have never been in as good physical conditioning coming into mid March as I AM right now..

PM me with your # if you want to talk.

First day of spring! Right on brother! Thanks for the spring liFT!

I hear ya on the yoga. I dont think its for sissies, and it does feel awesome. I just have a few issues, and still haven't been able to get in enough of a comfort zone to go doing it on a regular basis anymore.
My brother's a yoga instructor. And my sisters the best, and does it 4 times a week. She's Echo on Dollhouse

Yo, are you saying that $1,000 total intake from a job is bad, or $1,000 take home for myself is?

I am wondering what is really really fair for tree work?
If I remember correctly, $75/man hr is about the going rate in Boston area. So me and another guy at a 6 hr (1-day) job equals about $900.
I agree that I need to make more than that,
But WHAT IS REALLY FAIR?

For example... lets take a small crabapple prune for example, or one small ornamental, which can sometimes take 2 hours.. Customers sometimes have trouble paying more than $350 for something like that.
But in the end its a four-five hour affair sometimes - after estimate time, transpo there and back twice, and administrative work, and communications with the customer. Plus, I have to do all the work -trimming and cutting that is, with f-in poles, and tools... which jus kinda wear ya out, day after day after day, lifting and using. Luggin around on the site, up a tree, etc...

I get tons of $800-1,000 jobs. There are a lot of people out there with just a single tree need which they know they dont want to pay more than a thousand for, and ultimately could get someone to do for under a thousand. I find it hard to break the hump sometimes.
I end up pricing in hundreds, always throwing round numbers on things.
$1,000, $1,200. $1,400..
But then they sometimes end up not getting fully completed by days end.
It breaks the schedule....
We lose a day! and I'm tired!...

Was this what it was like when you were 33 ?

I know that I need to get a more formal identity, appearance, and more official procedures together and then I know I will be able to get away with charging higher numbers and people won't even flinch I think.
I need a nice website, and porfolio of before and afters...
I need to work on my marketing!

You must be closer to a metropolitan city though, no?

I do have a lot of advertising, but need to work on my ad some. ...
I freakin missed the deadline to make changes this year, and am still stuck with last years ad, which isn't great.
Its ok, 2 inch.. bUt doesn't bling, like it used to!

Hey, we should start a thread where guys post, and discuss eachother's ads...
That would be fun.

Peace, later!

Boston

 

[arbadacarba]

Top guy I ever knew was a guy named Bill Williamson.(BillBill) He was still climbing when he was eighty but he looked like most guys in their late forties or early fifties. Broke his back four times, but he claimed that one didn't count because he had only fallen off a dock onto some rocks to get it. Hell of a guy!!!