Climbing without a saftety line?

[treemandan]

Hey man, is that freedom rock? lol

F major barred
Whiskey bottles

A minor
brand new cars

F major barred
oak tree

A minor
you're in my way

Then just go nuts in the key of A

You should hang out with Treeco. He has like 20 speakers sitting in a circle in the basement and you all go in there and sit while he spins the records and talks about beans. He use to jam towels in the dryer vent outside so the neighbors wouldn't cry but they sure as **** did anyway.
beleive it or not he is actually more childish than most of us. rock on Danny!
I lent him my mom's CD player and it was like pulling teeth getting it back. She was going to kill him! Danny, you have no idea what you were in for, that gun would have really come in handy. Remember that? I called you up and said " Dude, I need that Cd palyer back before my mom kills you". You would not stand a chance.

Oh, the ragman draws circles
Up and down the block.
I'd ask him what the matter was
But I know that he don't talk.
And the ladies treat me kindly
And furnish me with tape,
But deep inside my heart
I know I can't escape.
Oh, Mama, can this really be the end,
To be stuck inside of Mobile
With the Memphis blues again.

Well, Shakespeare, he's in the alley
With his pointed shoes and his bells,
Speaking to some French girl,
Who says she knows me well.
And I would send a message
To find out if she's talked,
But the post office has been stolen
And the mailbox is locked.
Oh, Mama, can this really be the end,
To be stuck inside of Mobile
With the Memphis blues again.

Mona tried to tell me
To stay away from the train line.
She said that all the railroad men
Just drink up your blood like wine.
An' I said, "Oh, I didn't know that,
But then again, there's only one I've met
An' he just smoked my eyelids
An' punched my cigarette."
Oh, Mama, can this really be the end,
To be stuck inside of Mobile
With the Memphis blues again.

Grandpa died last week
And now he's buried in the rocks,
But everybody still talks about
How badly they were shocked.
But me, I expected it to happen,
I knew he'd lost control
When he built a fire on Main Street
And shot it full of holes.
Oh, Mama, can this really be the end,
To be stuck inside of Mobile
With the Memphis blues again.

Now the senator came down here
Showing ev'ryone his gun,
Handing out free tickets
To the wedding of his son.
An' me, I nearly got busted
An' wouldn't it be my luck
To get caught without a ticket
And be discovered beneath a truck.
Oh, Mama, can this really be the end,
To be stuck inside of Mobile
With the Memphis blues again.

Now the preacher looked so baffled
When I asked him why he dressed
With twenty pounds of headlines
Stapled to his chest.
But he cursed me when I proved it to him,
Then I whispered, "Not even you can hide.
You see, you're just like me,
I hope you're satisfied."
Oh, Mama, can this really be the end,
To be stuck inside of Mobile
With the Memphis blues again.

Now the rainman gave me two cures,
Then he said, "Jump right in."
The one was Texas medicine,
The other was just railroad gin.
An' like a fool I mixed them
An' it strangled up my mind,
An' now people just get uglier
An' I have no sense of time.
Oh, Mama, can this really be the end,
To be stuck inside of Mobile
With the Memphis blues again.

When Ruthie says come see her
In her honky-tonk lagoon,
Where I can watch her waltz for free
'Neath her Panamanian moon.
An' I say, "Aw come on now,
You must know about my debutante."
An' she says, "Your debutante just knows what you need
But I know what you want."
Oh, Mama, can this really be the end,
To be stuck inside of Mobile
With the Memphis blues again.

Now the bricks lay on Grand Street
Where the neon madmen climb.
They all fall there so perfectly,
It all seems so well timed.
An' here I sit so patiently
Waiting to find out what price
You have to pay to get out of
Going through all these things twice.
Oh, Mama, can this really be the end,
To be stuck inside of Mobile
With the Memphis blues again

 

[treemandan]

And ya'll had trouble figuring me out?
If I remember corrctly the song is in D minor. A " ballad" key dylan like to use. Pretty much the same key for The Hurricane.

 

[tree MDS]

Dylan right?

 

[treemandan]

Dylan right?

good for gettin hammered on open mic night.

 

[Dadatwins]

I have a large poplar to take down next weekend, and need some advise from anyone. The poplar is around the 70 foot mark, and there is not a branch on the tree until the very top, too far to get a safety line up and over a branch. I normally throw a line over a branch and have someone tend the end on the ground for safety, but in this case I am faced with climbing without one. The tree is right next to a pave road, so without a doubt its going to be a fatal drop if the spurs kick out on me. Climbing to set a pull over rope is mandatory, there are several houses nearby and a drop in the wrong direction isnt going to work.
What is my best option?Set a safety line in a nearby tree?Nearest tree is about 20 feet.Double wrapping your flip line, is it sufficient in the case of a spur kicking out to hold you until you regain your footing?

Why can't a pull line be set from the ground? 70' is throwball territory or a short pull with a bigshot. As for having someone tending line on the ground does this mean you do not have a friction hitch on your line on the way up? Poplar will hold the gaffs very well as it is a soft wood when alive, but hardens when dead and breaks easily. I have taken a slide down trunk wood and it is no fun waiting for chest hair to regrow after it has been extracted by hickory bark. be careful.

 

[JS Landscaping]

Yea I agree, those hickorys can give you some nasty bark bites. I used to be a free climber myself, til a mishap with the previous company I worked for. It was free climbing spikless everyday on any conifer type tree. Was in a white pine going up to about 70 feet to repair some storm damage. Was getting crap from the boss's son, who was the forman at the time, about having my lanyard around the tree free climbing. Said I was taking too long. Well I un-cliped to get over this one leader that was comming out at a wierd angle to continute my ascend up the spar. Had my right foot and hand on 2 branches, and my left foot was being lifted up to get up and over this leader when the branch that my right foot was on gave out. This was around 60ft. Not a good feeling to be hanging by your arm at 60 feet unclipped, scrambling for something to get your feet on. The branch that gave out was actually larger in diamiter then the one my hand was on, snapped right out at the collar. Must have been weakend and I didnt realize it. Was a close call for sure, got to the top after I climbed the rest of the way up with my lanyard around the tree. Tied in, did what I had to do and came down ready to swing at the forman. Never again will I free-climb, thats what they make the 2-n-1 lanyard for. If im on spikes, the lanyard is around the tree, pretty much its always around the tree unless im ascending on my rope or decending or moving about the canopy. Some say just to free climb, if that works for you then great, I personaly dont want to find out what it feels like to fall and eat the ground. Rather live to climb another day, and enjoy those cold ones at the end of a good day of climbing

 

[BCMA]

Why are you so worked up about how I climb? It's just climbing.

Nails, the reason that we are so worked up man- is because there are people and other climbers that care about you. We do not want to see you or anyone else end up on the Arboriculture Injuries and Fatalities thread. Man, you’re too good to die early! Plus, you give me a lot of things to shoot at! So by all means, get tied in and don’t free climb. Climb safe.

 

[lxt]

Wow I mention "free climb" & nails takes the azz kickin, Look that was then!! I might free climb here and there but only if im sure!!

funny thing is when I took the skills test for utility lineman we used fall arrest, once you are certified...you free climb!! check out some pic`s on this trade....hanging off fiberglass ladders beside insulators 100+ ft up with nothing but a leather safety strap keeping you attached to the ladder?????

I dont know certain trades, certain rules!! as I once said...there is no greater authority up there than myself & if I screw up...no one to blame but me!!

freeclimb...cant be any dumber than cutting your rope & falling!! do I do it all the time............NO!

Be safe!!

LXT..............

 

[Nailsbeats]

Wow I mention "free climb" & nails takes the azz kickin, Look that was then!! I might free climb here and there but only if im sure!!

funny thing is when I took the skills test for utility lineman we used fall arrest, once you are certified...you free climb!! check out some pic`s on this trade....hanging off fiberglass ladders beside insulators 100+ ft up with nothing but a leather safety strap keeping you attached to the ladder?????

I dont know certain trades, certain rules!! as I once said...there is no greater authority up there than myself & if I screw up...no one to blame but me!!

freeclimb...cant be any dumber than cutting your rope & falling!! do I do it all the time............NO!

Be safe!!

LXT..............

I agree, I don't do it on every tree anymore, I used to freeclimb them all to the top to tie in, I didn't have a buckstrap. Now I pick and choose depending on the conditions.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Nails, the reason that we are so worked up man- is because there are people and other climbers that care about you. We do not want to see you or anyone else end up on the Arboriculture Injuries and Fatalities thread. Man, you’re too good to die early! Plus, you give me a lot of things to shoot at! So by all means, get tied in and don’t free climb. Climb safe.

I understand and appreciate the concern, especially comming from you.

 

[masiman]

ANY un-controled swing is the SAME AS a fall. If you swing 20' you will hit with the same force/speed as if falling 20". THIS IS FACT.

If you tie in to that tree 20' away AND keep flip line/buck strap around tree you are spiking. . .

Check your "FACTS" randyg. PE(Potential Energy) is based on your height and weight (PE=mgh). A 20' swing has the KE (Kinetic Energy) of your change in height. The horizontal swing will be 20' but the height of the fall be less than 20' unless you are even with your tip. I hope you are not climbing above your TIP, a no-no.

A simple example: TIP - 50' in other tree, Climbers height 20'. Length of rope/pendulum is 36' (pythagorean theorem). Meaning that the climber will effectively fall 6' while swinging on that 36' foot lead, across the 20' until he hits the other tree (starting out at 30' below tip ending up at 36' below tip at the bottom of the swing). The higher you get the TIP, the less your fall will be.

I don't how much climbing experience you have but you'd be smart to know that it's usually better to take a swing fall where you at least have a chance to dissipate some of the impact by glancing off your impact point and still maintain control after impacts. If you fall without a TIP, it all goes into the ground. Very little chance to dissipate that.

At least research the facts next time.

 

[Slvrmple72]

That's still gonna hurt like heck! You would definitely want a "swing and a miss " on that one! LOL

 

[masiman]

That's still gonna hurt like heck! You would definitely want a "swing and a miss " on that one! LOL

No disagreement there

I just couldn't believe that someone thought a 20' fall and a 20' swing were equivalent and try to tell everyone it was a fact. The only time they are equivalent is if the climber is even with a TIP at 20', if the TIP is higher your fall will be higher but your swing will always be 20'.

 

[tree MDS]

This thread has made me a little sick with this sight. Not that anyone cares really, but its actually made me think about taking a break from it. Its gotta be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard argued here. Nails my bucket was an asplundh truck, still has all the stickers inside, I like the one of thier "5 life saving rules" that reads "100% TIE-IN to tree or aerial lift". Run that by the "old mange" sometime, company man that he was. Latter, MDS.

 

[treemandan]

This thread has made me a little sick with this sight. Not that anyone cares really, but its actually made me think about taking a break from it. Its gotta be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard argued here. Nails my bucket was an asplundh truck, still has all the stickers inside, I like the one of thier "5 life saving rules" that reads "100% TIE-IN to tree or aerial lift". Run that by the "old mange" sometime, company man that he was. Latter, MDS.

don't you have a job to go to?
Yeah, sick. That is why i started the other thread. Thanks for your support.
Love them stickers, got em all pasted on the inside of my forehead.
I seen a guy pop out and hit the ground. Sometimes you are Ok though, not often, sometimes.
Oh and MDS, I care.

 

[tree MDS]

don't you have a job to go to?
Yeah, sick. That is why i started the other thread. Thanks for your support.
Love them stickers, got em all pasted on the inside of my forehead.
I seen a guy pop out and hit the ground. Sometimes you are Ok though, not often, sometimes.
Oh and MDS, I care.

Well thanks for caring dan. Yeah I got some estimates to do, and then some other errrands like putting some money in the bank and picking up some Red Cedar I had milled - anyone want it? No on the job to go do unfortunately, work is dead but I may have a nice winter job coming up soon hopefully. Its clearing trees back from two miles of fencing at this exotic bird sanctuary in town, so the critters cant get in and eat the flamingo's etc. You ought to see them flamingo's dan, just your kind of bird, no doubt, lol.

 

[tree MDS]

Hang in there! (pun intended, LOL.)

This thread took a major derailment and ended up being about free climbing.

The original question was about the necessity of being 'top roped' when climbing a spar using spikes and a lanyard.

Thank treeco, lol.

 

[southsoundtree]

The late, great mountaineer and outdoor educator Paul Petzoldt said of mountain climbers

"There are old climbers, and bold climbers, but no old, bold climbers."

I think that this applies to trees as well.

Be safe. Be safe. Be safe. Be safe. Get it done. Be safe.

 

[masiman]

This thread has made me a little sick with this sight. Not that anyone cares really, but its actually made me think about taking a break from it. Its gotta be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard argued here. Nails my bucket was an asplundh truck, still has all the stickers inside, I like the one of thier "5 life saving rules" that reads "100% TIE-IN to tree or aerial lift". Run that by the "old mange" sometime, company man that he was. Latter, MDS.

Think of it like the family at holidays, it's great to see everyone but after a few days it's time to go. Take a break if needed, the family will still be here in some form :greenchainsaw:

 

[randyg]

Check your "FACTS" randyg. PE(Potential Energy) is based on your height and weight (PE=mgh). A 20' swing has the KE (Kinetic Energy) of your change in height. The horizontal swing will be 20' but the height of the fall be less than 20' unless you are even with your tip. I hope you are not climbing above your TIP, a no-no.

A simple example: TIP - 50' in other tree, Climbers height 20'. Length of rope/pendulum is 36' (pythagorean theorem). Meaning that the climber will effectively fall 6' while swinging on that 36' foot lead, across the 20' until he hits the other tree (starting out at 30' below tip ending up at 36' below tip at the bottom of the swing). The higher you get the TIP, the less your fall will be.

I don't how much climbing experience you have but you'd be smart to know that it's usually better to take a swing fall where you at least have a chance to dissipate some of the impact by glancing off your impact point and still maintain control after impacts. If you fall without a TIP, it all goes into the ground. Very little chance to dissipate that.

At least research the facts next time.

YOU ARE ALMOST 100% CORRECT

My statement should have included the verbage ("when you are at the same height as TIP which is 20 feet away, and you uncontrolably swing and hit directly below TIP, you will now be 20 feet below TIP and will hit with same force as if you would have fallen straight down 20 feet") or something like that. Please forgive the shortcoming, as college was 30 something years ago.

MY MAIN POINT WAS TO KEEP FLIP AROUND STEM YOU ARE SPIKING AND

AVOID UNCONTROLLED SWING ???