Codominate Removal Technique

[Tree&Stump]

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachm...are-climbing/293108d1367362220-imag1377-1-jpg


The tree in this pic is cabled to reduce the risk of failure in the leaning leader which could have fell through the house. It is possible to cause the leader to fail while rigging pieces off of it, and this level of tree work should only be handled by professional arborists that would add more cable, rope, or chains to further brace the leaning leader during the removal. It takes a lot of experience to safely handle this type of scenario.


Maybe we can realize and learn something for good use in the field. I like this idea, and I'm going to keep it as simple as possible.


1. Place a block in the leaning leader. Place a block in the vertical leader. Place the portawrap at the base of the tree. Run the bull rope through the both blocks.

2. When piece is tied and dropped, the shock force on the rope will pull the leaning leaner towards the vertical leader instead of pulling it away from the vertical leaner.


I call this the CPRS or Counter Pull Rigging System.

Keep the block that is on the vertical leader placed horizontally to or above the block that is on the leaner.

Use two sets of blocks and two ropes if you're going big.

Keep your climbing line's tie in point placed in the vertical leader, so if you need to adjust the block up or down on the vertical leader, you can just swing over to it with a micro pulley attached to the leaner. This way you can transfer yourself back and forth.




The base of this tree is going to rot out after you take out the leaner. That's as dangerous or more as the leaner hanging over the house is to begin with. Removing the whole tree is necessary in situations like this.

And no, you can't safely do this unless you are a genuinely trained and certified arborist. Nothing goes right when you're not a seasoned professional.

 

[woodchuck357]

Wish most of my jobs were as simple and easy as that appears to be

There must be something not showing in the photo.

 

[treemandan]

A couple of oversights here, IMO.

I think the technique being suggested is missing a major component or two. Loading and unload the existing cable and may cause it's failure. If that cable fails and there is no load on the bull line then the leaning leader is left supporting itself. Loading and unloading a static cable system in an unknown condition is not a good practice.

If it were me doing the rigging I'd back up the existing cable before loading and unloading it repeatedly. Then the re-directing force two pulley suggestion is not a bad idea.

Another likely oversight is the fact that the tree likely does not need to be removed at all but instead is well worth saving. Further supporting and lightening may be all this tree needs to continue being an asset instead of a large, expensive removal.

Good Arborist 101 stuff though because it shows that even when you think you've got it all figured out, maybe you don't.

And after you got it figured out and cabled up a storm rips through leaving a heap of twisted tree and metal. You cannot predict what is going to happen, you just can't, its not wise to try. Sometimes its easy to see that a cable will be beneficial and sometimes you are only compounding a problem.

Its also a commitment, which , over the years, I have seen cabled trees long forgot about. I have a couple trees I did with Nerex and wish I hadn't. I left the client with instructions for when I am no longer available to inspect or adjust the system.

I have a couple larger birches I am stringing up shortly. But a tree with potential for major destruction? Nah. You put a cable in to support a limb you think has problems and then the other side goes bringing everything with it. And to do this to protect a house? :msp_ohmy:

I does blow my mind to be TD-ing a big tree and see all the cables still holding... and of course I understand when I see a big old tree with the cables ripped out but then my mind gets blown again because its still standing without the support it once had.

 

[Tree&Stump]

Thanks, Del.

This tree has been talked about else where. The best idea in regards to backing up the cable was to bind the two leaders together with chain and ratchet. That is superior to adding a rope because the chain and ratchet are superior to the rope and other gadgets, but I wouldn't loop the chain around the 2 leaders. I'd choke the chain/s off on each one. That way when the chains are tightening and loosening, the chain doesn't have a chance of sliding down the stems during the job.

The chain can placed low on the tree, and the climber can work his way down to the chain without his chain interfering with his work. I'd have the chains set at 20' off of the ground. Too close to the ground is not as effective. And the cable that is already in this specific tree is high in the tree, and it will have to be cut half way through the removal, so the chains are a critical part.


Del, would you chain it, and piece it down off of the leaning leader, or would you chain it, and set up my counter pull rigging system too? My opinion on this is that both systems applied is better because that degree of certainty is necessary. The leaner detaching during the removal shouldn't even be a thought during the job. It also allows the climber to use the full capacity of the rigging gear instead of mitigating weight because of chance the leader will fail.

 

[miko0618]

I don't see why you cant strap the 2 together, clean the yard side of the main stem and rig the top pieces from the leaner off the main stem. your taking 100 lb pieces in a swinging fashion. you get a couple limbs down off both stems and that cable will slack on its own. if your going for taking big pieces, your just being lazy and taking unnecessary risks with your life.

 

[Tree&Stump]

At that rate, Miko, what should be a day long take down would be several days.

 

[miko0618]

pooper scooper tree service!

that tree isn't all that big. just rig it off the stronger stem. simple enough.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Not seein it, 3-4 hr climb tops. Got plenty of room to just swing everything over the fence.

 

[woodchuck357]

It is two trees growing into each other

The leaner is not about to fall. Tie into vertical one, just to be extra careful, run bull rope thru a block in the vertical one to a block in the leaner, climb it and piece it down fairly large. Simple, no worries about the leaning spar going sideways, or falling from the forces put on it.

 

[Tree&Stump]

That tree is a solid 48" wide at the base. It's taller and wider than what some of you think based on your perception via the picture. I've done several appraisals on trees based on Google Street View which is basically a pic of HO's front yards. It's hard to judge the size of a tree based on the pic. If I were a customer, I would send my bidders pics of the tree in emails, and say you have to give me a price based on that because I know they would underestimate the job. The point is that the tree is big, so there's no way it's the simple little piece of cake some of you are thinking that it is.

Second of all, look on the commercial forum for the remembering " what's his name " I forgot his name. He was killed by a tree stem breaking off. He's not the first, and he's not the last climber to have that happen. Tree business is a level of serious chances like no other. You don't know what's in those trees every single tree you're going to work on or send someone up. An amateur looks at that tree in the pic, and he sees a stack of bark, and goes for it. A pro knows so much about it that he's going to assure himself that he or anybody that works for him + people in the area and property are not going to be damaged on his watch. That is the job, and he's going to do it, and protect his wallet/family too.

I don't know. It baffles me and other people like me why some will take the chances they take. The job is to squash the risk not take risks. There's so much involved with the dynamic loading on that leaner, that it would put knots in my stomach if I just let the cheap hacks have that job without the proper supervision and advice.

 

[Tree&Stump]

Del, you're right about the side motion. At the same time there is a strong connection on the bottom and the sides but not the top of the shoulder. I don't think side motion is a problem unless it's hollow.

You said imagine there was no connection, but no. Imagine the leaner was completely upright. It's firmly connected on North, South, and East side, but on the West side it's root flare/buttress roots are non existent. So imagine it upright like exactly like that, and then imagine it tilted again. The case is exactly the same. There is no connection at the West face meaning that 3 sides of the tree are strong. That means that the tree doesn't sway side to side while shock loading it especially with the CPRS pulling it to the weak side instead of the opposite direction of the weak side.

And I guess some people don't have anything to lose, so they'll climb it without bracing it.

 

[Stayalert]

agreed about chain being a pain off the ground.....I've had good luck with heavy ratchet straps for tying stems together too.....

 

[sgreanbeans]

Second of all, look on the commercial forum for the remembering " what's his name " I forgot his name. He was killed by a tree stem breaking off. He's not the first, and he's not the last climber to have that happen.

Who are you talking about?

 

[jefflovstrom]

Who are you talking about?

Yeah, not Prentice.
I remember the old site. Sounds like he is talking about Pete Donzelli.

http://www.arboristsite.com/arboricultural-injuries-fatalities/24808-2.htm

Jeff

 

[Tree&Stump]

What exactly happened in both cases? I thought that a codom split under or over the top of Prentice. I had not heard about Peter until now.

We all die mostly in less significant ways, but these guys' deaths send the extra precaution message home although unfortunately this all goes without their choice in the matter.

 

[jefflovstrom]

I won't talk about Matt

What exactly happened in both cases? I thought that a codom split under or over the top of Prentice. I had not heard about Peter until now.

We all die mostly in less significant ways, but these guys' deaths send the extra precaution message home although unfortunately this all goes without their choice in the matter.

But, Pete was a remarkable guy!!! I wish I could of met him. I remember him from the old isa chat.
Jeff
http://www.arboristsite.com/arboricultural-injuries-fatalities/24808.htm

 

[Tree&Stump]

Thanks Jeff.

 

[jefflovstrom]

Thanks Jeff.

Welcome.

 

[sgreanbeans]

Matt did not die in a tree accident ................. leave it alone

 

[B Harrison]

Not seein it, 3-4 hr climb tops. Got plenty of room to just swing everything over the fence.

I am obviously not a (seasoned) climber, but I see tying the two stems together and then reducing the leaning stem to be a simple option. Tie only to the dominant stem, within the first 10 minutes and 3 decent drops your going to reduce stress by way more than 1/2 if you focus on the farthest leaning limbs.

Both my regular climbers would be through this tree in 1.5 hours per side including the pre rig.

I would consider cleaning up the leaning side and dropping most of that bad boy with a rope to control lz.

But I don't know anything just do a lot of thinking.