Crappy Stihl Cylinder - Looks like ChiCom Garbage!!!

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Tzed, you are being a typical "Why does it matter if it works OK now?" person.
It might work fine now, hell it might have 300psi compression and eat children through the intake - but that cylinder is WRONG. It's cheaply made. It's badly made. It's junk, as far as I am concerned - not "broken" junk, but just junk.

How much more would it take for Stihl to cast a decent cylinder? Not a lot.
I used to design water pumps many years ago, and if a casting like that came to me I would have stopped work, gone down to the floor, and find out why they were ending up like trash pumps - designed to pump stones, and every other kind of trash out of underground water tanks. They needed twice the horsepower of any other pumps.
I don't let stuff like that slip by, because I am proud of what I design. And Stihl are, or they should be.
If Stihl are letting stuff like that cylinder pass QC - well, they will go down the crapper.


You are typical....:)

What do you know? I make parts for pumps like that, among other things. I make parts that conform to the drawings that I am given. You are the guy that sets the tolerances, but I am the guy that holds them....:)
 
Dexcool sold alot of intake jobs, engines, and various cooling system componets.:dizzy: That stuff HAS to be flushed every 30K miles or else! Our 3 that "used" dexcool are now on green and have been that way since new.:clap:
 
This just goes to show that Stihl could take a dried up goat turd, slap some orange and yellow paint on it, set it on fire and burn a tree in two with it, call it a bio chainsaw, and there are people who would buy into it.


Start saving your money, 2K...



.
 
The cylinder is not perfect, and it is not an example of how to do it "the best they know how".

As someone who has just laid down £430 (that about 650 of your dollars) for a new 260...I damn well expect a saw build "the best they know how". That's why I buy Stihl, that's why I've always bought Stihl, and the thing that worries me a bit is that I may not want to buy Stihl in the future.

I'm almost tempted to take my brand new 260 and pull the jug off, but I think I'll limit myself to looking at the outside of the casting for the Mahle logo - this saw will probably be of European origin.

It is just like the car business. I worked on a friends 6 litre Merc from the 1960s, and it was a thing of beauty. Every part engineered to perfection, and as long as it was serviced regularly, it would probably go on forever. Modern Mercs? Heaps of thrown together junk. Vauxhall (GM to you guys) are probably more reliable, and at least they're cheap to fix when it does break.

Given the crappiness of what was in the photos, it would probably be worth running a micrometer over the rest of it.

And yes, I get the "business reality". If Stihl are competing with £100 Mcullochs in box stores, then they need to compete. It's just depressing to think that this might represent the start of a slide into mediocrity.
 
No, because I have faith in my food suppliers. If, however, I had a report of my food supplier spitting in hamburgers, you can bet your arse they wouldn't be my food supplier any more. Can you tell me why?

I guess you didn't read 'bout that fella in MO @KFC that was adding a little extra cream to the coleslaw. :mad:
 
The MS441 is Stihl's Flagship saw. I would like to see a close exam of a current 441 top-end, as I believe it would be more inicative of the top level at Stihl.

How would that matter? Stihl is selling 260s for $500, which is more than Husky/Jred/Dolmar/etc. sell their 50 cc saws for. And the 260 is significantly outperformed by all others in that class.

The expectation of the consumer is that they are paying more for quality. Stihl is even labeling it as 'professional-grade.'

I would submit that, if this is indicative of the quality they are getting...they are getting robbed.


.
 
or stihl doesnt give flyn shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit and the 20% of the people who crack a saw open will be a wash over what there savn on the cheap casting. get the old stuff and keep it running because this is just going to get worse

maybe bad economic times caused stihl to go cheaper to stay afoat, could be possibilty
 
I do, because I'm a picky type. :D
But Brad just bought a cylinder, which was clearly a really bad casting. If I bought a new set of pistons for any of my cars and they were anywhere near that bad, I would be standing at the sales desk throwing them at the spares guy - with some special Tom Hall "Gas'n go" gas and soap flakes mix on them of course.
It's a shoddy cylinder - would you not send it back if Stihl sent you it to put on a customers saw?

I would not put that cylinder on a saw as a replacement part. Not becuase of all the things Brad pointed out but because of whether it fits my standards which are much different than a modder. I would also not replace it at warranty merely because the saw was taken apart to be modded. Thats part of the reason I asked how it ran. If it ran like a dog compared to other 260's then there is a issue to be resolved. If it ran fine there is no issue to correct. I don't warranty saws that come back with the paint scratched off, sorry but cosmetic does not equal warranty and neither does quality. There has to be a defect in workmanship that alters the performace of the machine. Once again there has been no mention as to how the saw ran so the defects in the cylinder have yet to be proven to alter the performance of the unit, no warranty. Brad may well get a new cylinder as soon as he provides proof of purchase, its my understanding its not his saw, once again no warranty. Going to bat for his customer so he can mod the new cylinder once again ruins the warranty on the new cylinder he wants so no matter which way he goes his chances of getting a new cylinder are slim to none.


As a matter of fact I had such a case a few years back on a 036 fried. The replacement cylinder came in and was made not by Stihl but Mahle. It had flew flaws but the main issue was the sharp edges left around the inside of the exhaust port, apparently it had not been chamfered at all. I was afriad the rings would hang in it. I called and got another that was perfect, no questions asked. Take note as well I did not come on here and start a thread about that Mahle cylinder, one that would have failed in no time flat due to the lack of chamfering around the exhaust port. Thats my work I'm handing back to the customer, not Stihl's, not Mahle's, mine. Had I started a thread about that defective 036 Mahle cylinder would 25 people be keen on it, no. I love the interest Stihl gets whether its good or bad, goes to show the name is still turning heads after 75 plus years.

To show you how fruitless this thread really is just yesterday this beautifull Ford truck pulled up in front of the shop door, beautifull truck. The guy got out and I met him at the door. He brought me chains to sharpen, grrrr. Anyway I go man thats a nice looking truck you got there. He goes thanks but its not the truck my other one was. I said what was the other one. He goes Ford. I said whatcha mean, your talking both Fords. He goes my other one was a diesel and it blew a head gasket after the warranty ran out, cost me a big penny. Then after I got that fixed the SOB blew the other side head gaslet out so I got rid of it. He's still driving what, Ford.

So you take the motors apart inspecting the workmanship before you buy, now thats something, won't happen where I work or any place that I know of. And no I'm not pulling the jug off to show you in order to get you to buy it, step aside, another customer will buy it, LOL, (messing with ya)
 
or stihl doesnt give flyn shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit and the 20% of the people who crack a saw open will be a wash over what there savn on the cheap casting. get the old stuff and keep it running because this is just going to get worse

maybe bad economic times caused stihl to go cheaper to stay afoat, could be possibilty

20% here. Maybe 2% in the rest of the chainsaw world.
 
Howdy,
I don't know if there is anyone on here that is more aware of the AS being a double edged sword as I do. The PR can help boost a product, or kill it dead. I've tried to be as proactive with our product issues as possible. Stihl is a huge corporation and I doubt if anyone from corporate will ever comment on this issue. I might be wrong, and I'll be the first to admit if someone from Stihl nuts up and makes a comment.
Our dealings with Brad have been totally public. We solicited him to consider giving us his thoughts on product we're developing. The only things we have PM'd about is getting some care packages together for GTG's he's involved with. I also do this with other people doing GTG's. The only thing we ever comped him was some aftermarket parts for a 038 he was twisting together. He never asked, I saw the thread and just sent stuff. It was the least we could do to help cover his time. To imply that he's on the dole to give us favorable reviews, or comments is plain wrong.
I'm sure if Stihl sent him a cylinder for evaluation the title of this thread would be different. I can't speak for Brad but, finding this cylinder on a stock pro saw is like finding a lower quality Brazilian VW cylinder on your Porche that your putting the performance kit in. It just isn't what you paid for, or wanted.
Regards
Gregg
 
maybe bad economic times caused stihl to go cheaper to stay afoat, could be possibilty

If thats the case they're going down anyway.... might as well take the high road and go out with some integrity.

Anybody remember the days when MacCulloch, Homelite, and Poulan ruled the roost????

What ever happened to that????







There's a lesson there that Stihl would be wise to learn.

Nobody ever bought a Stihl saw because it was cheap. ;)
 
Wow Erick. Wish I could put it like that. You hit the nail on the head...several times.

We've settle the question and this is not a one time defect but can be expected when buying a new Pro Stihl saw. This is not isolated to the "outdated" 260, but includes the almighty 660 and 460 as well. This is not the quality with which Stihl earned their reputation, neither with the world or myself. They have taught us to expect high quality and demand the price for it. They have dropped their end of the deal.

So you want to know if it hurts performance. I don't care! That does not matter at this point! The end does not justify the means. So do you practice situational ethics as well? What are the defects? I named them all in the first post. Go re-read it. Just because it runs doesn't make it ok. The quality of this cylinder SUCKS!! Period. You cannot deny that. Don't just tell me it still runs.

Let's put this another way. Suppose I bring you in a MS260 with a bad P&C. You order a new OEM P&C for me and this is the one you get. Are you going to put it on my saw? Or are you going to do what I did and raise the flag? Or are you going to enable manufactures to continue the downhill trend to put crap quality like this in their product? My philosophy is, "Do it right, or don't do it at all".



Very well stated Brad!

Brad the statement about them being made in the Zama factory, was meant as a joke, I have no idea where they are made, nor do I really give a :censored:. I will tell all of you that if I ordered a OEM P/C, and it showed up looking like this one, I will be on the phone to the manufacturer asking what type of crap they are trying to pawn off as top of the line replacement parts.
That being said, I have called Husqvarna on some plastics on new units that have casting flashes on them. I was pissed when I cut my fingers on these razor sharp casting flashes, had to stop pre-delivery service, go wash blood off, pour some peroxide on cuts, then wait for bleeding to stop. I don't know of many people who like the site of blood all over their new OPE product. I was informed that they would notify Sweden of the problem. BTW I did clean up the flashes, so my customers would not cut themselves, and this is not supposed to be part of the set-up and pre-delivery steps. I have called on 1 P/C that I refused to install in the last 12 months, no problem a replacement on its way and return authorization accepted. This problem is not just common among the big 2, everyone it seems is lowering their QC standards.

Everyone remember the old saying,"If it looks like :censored:,smells like :censored:, feels like :censored:, then it must be :censored:".

:cheers:
 
Howdy,
I don't know if there is anyone on here that is more aware of the AS being a double edged sword as I do. The PR can help boost a product, or kill it dead. I've tried to be as proactive with our product issues as possible. Stihl is a huge corporation and I doubt if anyone from corporate will ever comment on this issue. I might be wrong, and I'll be the first to admit if someone from Stihl nuts up and makes a comment.
Our dealings with Brad have been totally public. We solicited him to consider giving us his thoughts on product we're developing. The only things we have PM'd about is getting some care packages together for GTG's he's involved with. I also do this with other people doing GTG's. The only thing we ever comped him was some aftermarket parts for a 038 he was twisting together. He never asked, I saw the thread and just sent stuff. It was the least we could do to help cover his time. To imply that he's on the dole to give us favorable reviews, or comments is plain wrong.
I'm sure if Stihl sent him a cylinder for evaluation the title of this thread would be different. I can't speak for Brad but, finding this cylinder on a stock pro saw is like finding a lower quality Brazilian VW cylinder on your Porche that your putting the performance kit in. It just isn't what you paid for, or wanted.
Regards
Gregg

Grand good post. Would you guys give Brad a new cylinder seeing that one is obviously not very good even though its not his cylinder? After you answer I got another question for ya..
 
I guess you didn't read 'bout that fella in MO @KFC that was adding a little extra cream to the coleslaw. :mad:

whitedogone this is bad, totally wrong!

I inspected my hamburger for spit and found a stihl cylinder.....it was junk though

The reason was the pickle juice caused pitting in the bore on the cylinder, just think of what it does to your digestive tract.

:dizzy:
 
Hey Tommie, while we wait for Greg.... I got a quick question for ya.

Had a logger come in a little while back with a 660 wouldn't run right.

Turns out the plating had come off just below the exhaust port and scored the piston and cylinder pretty good.

Man told me he has been running Stihl for 30 years and never had a single major failure.... said he's had 4 go down in the last year ALL were cylinder related.

Just wondering... what would you tell this customer about that cylinder Brad just posted??
 

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