Descender

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Barry Stumps

ArboristSite Member
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Oct 1, 2006
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Seymour Indiana
Hello, I have made most of my purchaces for biginning tree removal but need a descender and unsure which kind to buy. I have been looking at the Petzle Stop but says up to 12 mm and I have 1/2 inch rope which is 12.5 so would this still work? I am also looking for a pully for a 5/8 inch rope. Any ideas would be great. Thanks
 
I suppose the Petzl Stop is as good as any but I use a simple figure 8. With 1/2" rope it gives plenty of control, I use it with 11mm. If I'm concerned about being rendered unconscious while descending I have my footlock prusik to back it up.

I'm not sure why the figure 8 is so maligned in the tree climbing community; I've used one to desend single rope and double rope on all kinds of vertical terrain without any problems. You don't want to go zinging down the line on any device and as long as you keep things slow and easy, an 8 will give you lots of smooth control.

I think the CMI Stainless 2 ton block handles 5/8" rope... it's a really nice block.
 
Why???

Being that you are just getting started out, why do you need a decender?

Blinky, I agree that the fig 8 gets a bad rap but has its place.

I use a gri-gri for decending a single line.
 
I am also looking for a pully for a 5/8 inch rope. Any ideas would be great. Thanks

I like ther spring blocks because they have no pieces that can fall apart, and rounded edges if the rope sides loads at all.

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Hello, I have made most of my purchaces for biginning tree removal but need a descender and unsure which kind to buy. I have been looking at the Petzle Stop but says up to 12 mm and I have 1/2 inch rope which is 12.5 so would this still work? I am also looking for a pully for a 5/8 inch rope. Any ideas would be great. Thanks

I too like the stainless steel CMI pulleys, much less bulk than the aluminum blocks, plus, steel is tough in case it's dropped.

Are you decending on a doubled rope, a single rope, are you looking for a lanyard device, or how will you be using it?

The figure eight is pretty useless for most arborist applications.
 
This will be for a single line. This is mostly if i dont want to take the time to use my spikes on the way down and just general climbing as a hobby that i am wanting to pick up. Thanks
 
spikes

Spikes for hobby climbing hope your hobby climbing is only on telephone poles other wise you might rethink your set up . Maybe ascenders?? Instead of spikes I think the trees might like them a little better
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I guess that was worded wrong. I will be doing tree removal as a job and also on seperate non work related days Climbing rather caves or rock. Help this clears things up. I heard that the petzle descender is more rope friendly that the figure 8 not sure if that true.
 
If you want to see how a figure 8 works, try tying a munter hitch, they react very much the same and all you need is a carabiner. You will get twisting and hockling of the tail of the rope. Also, if you let go, you fall to the ground.

Some descenders will lock if you let go, which is nice, and the tend not to twist up the tail.

For tree work, I just use a munter when I descend a single rope, which isn't that often, and seldom more than around 30 feet. In some parts of the world, or some climbing styles, long descents would warrant the use of a big expensive tool like a descender.
 
I've used dozens and dozens of friction control devices for descent. I would dissuade you from a fig 8. Yes, they work, but there are better, lighter, smaller and even cheaper alternatives.

Friction control with a device, IMO, should allow you more versatility, control and security than using a hitch, otherwise you should just use a friction hitch.

A device should allow the use of a single rope, or a doubled rope. In using a doubled rope it should allow you to either control both parallel strands identically (1:1), or control one of the two lines (2:1) with the other end anchored to your saddle. This latter method is simply subbing the piece in for a traditional hitch to handle your friction.

Regardless, being able to choose interchangably betwen 1:1 SRT, 1:1 DRT and 2:1 DRT is really nice, whether from climb to climb, or within the same climb. EZ on, EZ off is critical IMO because you often need to re-route your line around something to accomodate you, as opposed to re-routing yourself to accomodate the line.

So far, this takes the GriGri and the Stop out of the equation. Surprisingly, a figure 8 can still accomplish all this, but it twists your line; two-fold in a 2:1 system, but even the twisting in a 1:1 method, it's still a PITA. There is a way to use certain 8's non-traditionally that won't twist the line, but it really depends on the 8 of which one will allow you to do that.

Climbing on 13 mm traditional arborist line will limit you from using just about every device out there. The fig 8 will still accomodate this, esp the rescue 8 with ears. Even some of our under 13 lines, like poison ivy and Fly will either not fit in a lot of the devices, or you have to work to stuff them in, making the overall process of climbing more work and less swift than it could be.

Moving on to true 11 mm line for climbing (and using 13 mm ropes for lowering) would be advisable if you want to enjoy tree care off a device, not just A device, but any piece out there.

Last note. The word 'descender' gives the impression that it is for descending. Well, yes, but it certainly doesn't stop there. I like to refer to these pieces as friction control devices. Yes, you control friction while coming down, but you also control friction while moving around. In fact, you should best assume that while aloft, you need to be in control of friction 100% of the time, other than the times you are standing on a limb with the rope untensioned. ANY TIME you have tension on your climbing line, you must be in control of that tension, allowing yourself to hang stationary on the rope, or move down. This is true for hitch systems or mechanical systems. If you climb back up, you need to easily be able to pull rope back through the other direction (slack tend) to re-tension.

There are many devices that will allow you to do everything decribed above, all have certain nuances that are the performance differences between each other. Also, the ideal friction control device for tree climbing, since tree climbing on devices is still in it's infancy, has not yet been invented.

Does this help at all?
 
My 2 cents. Petzl I'D (the larger version ) is rated for rope 13.5 mm. Works super with arbormaster/samson climbing line. Easily transisions back to ascenders/srt. Its over $100 but you will only need to buy it once. One of the best purchases I've made.
 
My 2 cents. Petzl I'D (the larger version ) is rated for rope 13.5 mm. Works super with arbormaster/samson climbing line. Easily transisions back to ascenders/srt. Its over $100 but you will only need to buy it once. One of the best purchases I've made.


IMHO the gri-gri is better because it locks around the rope...........
 
The I'D and the Gri gri attach to the rope in almost the exact same manner, they both work well But the gri gri isnt rated for rope 1/2 in diam, 13.5 mm. I own both and they are both excellent. the I'd has safety features that gri gri does not.
 
The I'D and the Gri gri attach to the rope in almost the exact same manner, they both work well But the gri gri isnt rated for rope 1/2 in diam, 13.5 mm. I own both and they are both excellent. the I'd has safety features that gri gri does not.


good to know, I couldn't find an I'D when I bought my gri-gri
 
Thanks to all post. I see the bennafits in most of these comments. Does anyone use the pezle stop with the 1/2 inch line or I think 12.5mm is the same. The Tree companion book says it good for lines up to 1/2 inch. It didn't say and including 1/2 inch so im not sure. I have the Sampson arbor rope if the brand will make a differance. Thanks again in advance.
 
The Petzl STOP is for ropes 9-12 mm. 1/2" 12.7 mm, but for the practical sake of a device, it's 13. You might be able to stuff the rope in the STOP. Just expect extra resistance in use. This will suck the life out of what you want, which is upper-end performance.

Here's the scoop on that and other questions, direct from Petzl.

Remember, Petzl caters to cavers first and rock climbers and search & rescue next. These are all SRT disciplines using 11 mm primarily. We adapt their gear to our needs, which is generally 13 mm DdRT. Other than the tons of gear we buy from them as an industry, they kinda otherwise scoff at our DdRT - 13mm hitch methods.

They only have two classes of descender (See below). There's a quasi-class in between that the rock and mountain climbing crowd favors, but they don't use it for climbing/descending; they use it as a belay device. Technically, what we do in the trees is self-belaying, so it stands to reason those cllasses of devices would work for us. Abseiling might just be a moment here and there, all day long. At the end of the time working aloft, you abseil out. True rappelling occupies only a fraction of the overall time that a treeguy would spend climbing doing pruning and deadwooding.

Self-braking decenders speak to the tree climber who grew up on friction hitches, that's because that's what a friction hitch does- it self brakes. Take your hand off the hitch and weight the rope and the hitch locks down. Same for self-braking descenders; self-brakes. And ascenders for that matter, do that, the difference being the descender does not live in permaent hard-lock as does the ascender.

Standard descenders, you take your hand off and it will drop you like a rock. You use your hand as friction, as well as to place more rope pressure on the descender to enact more braking. With a standard descender you must manually put it into braking mode, or lock off. A good setup allows you both a soft lock and a hardlock, at an instant, on or off, left or right hand and without even looking As a tree climber, you live in the middle world between soft lock and hard lock with ascent and descent at either end and this is what allows us access to the outermost reaches of a tree canopy.


Friction control at this easily achievable level allows us to do what we do well, which is move around tree canopies mostly, and work-position for the moments when we rig and cut, or cable or do brace work.

Dependable, consistent, predictable, precise secure control of your rope on a metal piece is not difficult to perform. It is, in fact, so easy that you should be able to control your entire range of movements aloft with only a thumb and finger. Your whole hand gets to manage the rope, however, because that's just what we do. The piece takes on almost all friction. Drop it into soft lock, you can hang suspended. Drop it into hard lock, you hang suspended, bombproof, and you're able to turn away, manage your flipline, saws, rigging, etc. Getting in and out of soft and hardlock is something you do somethimes hundreds of times a day working a big crown. How well a descender does all this is the mark of how useful it is, how well it allows you to climb for a living. if 100% of your income is derived from tree climbing, pruning and takedowns, how well you handle friction will have a profound effect on your paycheck. You control friction for a living. That ability is the foundation for confident and safe tree climbing. That's why we as tree climbers take it so seriously.

Does this help?
 
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Hello, I have made most of my purchaces for biginning tree removal but need a descender and unsure which kind to buy. I have been looking at the Petzle Stop but says up to 12 mm and I have 1/2 inch rope which is 12.5 so would this still work? I am also looking for a pully for a 5/8 inch rope. Any ideas would be great. Thanks
figure eight for desender 14-16 bucks, cmi rescue non stainless 30 - 40 bucks for your 5/8 if your rigging out wood and there's a chance the block will get crunched against the tree, i would say the buck or isc block that jp pictured
 
I wish everything, but the descriptions don't go a whole lot into what it is that is most important to us; work positioning.

Any ascender will take you up. Any descender, belay device will take you down. It's that little sliver in between up and down, the realm in which tree climbers work (with chainsaws (aloft)). 100% control in this crossover area is what it's all about. How easily and predictable and securely you control up, down and especially in-between is the essence of being a climbing tree practitioner. When you have complete dominance over friction, your confidence will become rock solid and you will understand the full joy of technical tree climbing.

It is joy, and you get paid for it. Much incentive to get it right.
 

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