Descender

[moss]

...and takes two hands to work.

I don't know of any descender device that can be used one-handed, at least if you want "hands off stop" while you're descending.
-moss

 

[Tom Dunlap]

In very other rope discipline this advice is not recommended. How come it is 'accpeted' by tree workers?

Quote: They say you should use the handle with one hand and your other as a belay hand, but actually, that's just for when you're free-hanging or on rappell. If you're limb walking or just moving about the canopy with only part of your weight on the rope you should be able to just work the handle with one hand and keep your other hand free.

Proper rapell techinique is to use a brake hand to backup any descent.

 

[SRT-Tech]

because treeworkers seem to ignore basic rope access guidlines. Not all, but most (that i have seen).

 

[Tree Machine]

I don't know of any descender device that can be used one-handed, at least if you want "hands off stop" while you're descending.
-moss

That's interesting. I won't use a descent device that I can't work with one hand. You should be able to use it one-handed, left or right, and drop it into soft lock with one hand and do your micro-adjustments to your exact work position one-handed while in soft lock.

"hands off stop" while you're descending, in your terms, is letting go of the rope, you stop. In different terms it means going from self-belay to soft-lock (or hard lock) and then letting go of the rope.

The one or two seconds to drop into soft lock becomes second nature. It is the 'price' you pay to gain the benefits of 1:1 rope work, whether doubled or single line.

Proper rapell techinique is to use a brake hand to backup any descent.

Also, this is a very natural and intuitive way, but this is rappell, which is your full weight on the rope, and you're coming down. Self-belay is your movement around the crown, your weight partially on the rope, or not at all, while moving about and you pay out, or tend slack depending on whether you're moving away from or back toward your tie-in point.

 

[Mitchell]

gri gri

for my 2 cents;

Anyone else have experiences using gri gri's. My disclamer; I am a fairly novice climber with only three years. Due to being involved in a large project locally setting up a zip line course, I have become frusterated with the basic blakes hitch as my mainstay.
I was up and down ropes all day with drt and srt for weeks. After buying a gri gri and switching to samson's velocity I have been fairly happy. What made me switch was climbing free hanging ropes away from trunks. I found the gri gri would take up slake effortlesly with one hand. I found this aspect to help when walking back on a limb as well.

It is a little jerky when using a natural crotch when coming down. The odd time it requires one to manually stuff the rope through it to keep it moving.
I also found I can use one hand with this device.

I was interested to know if others have considered or tryed gri gri or similar devices and found them lacking.

 

[Fireaxman]

I have ordered [a Petzl I'D]. I'll try to remember to post again here after I've had a chance to check it out.

As promised, I have a preliminary report. I received the I'D for 1/2" rope and the 11mm Velocity for the "Stop" and had a few hours to play with them last weekend. I have not had a chance yet to test the I'd out on a serious wrecking job yet but I am taking it up with me. Here is a preliminary report:

"Stop" on 11mm - WONDERFUL, smooth ride down, as fast as you want, on a good, firm, light rope. Disipates heat well. Tight, compact piece of equipment. Love it for the ride. BUT ... Hard (almost impossible) to take up slack in it if you move up the tree. You almost have to take it off the rope, move it up, and re-install it for any move up of more than a few inches.

I'D on 1/2" rope - big, clunky plastic thing. Actually rattles on the rope. Limits rate of descent. BUT ... you can body thrust with it going up the tree, so it it MUCH BETTER moving around in the tree. And, the safety feature of stopping your descent if you pull too hard on it works well - too well if you like a fast ride. Of course, it re-sets easily, so you can get moving again no big deal. And of course, it works on the 1/2" rope, which is what I have the most of.

So, the way it looks now, I think I'll be using the Stop for recreational climbing, and the I'D for work.

 

[Mitchell]

try a gri gri

As promised, I have a preliminary report. I received the I'D for 1/2" rope and the 11mm Velocity for the "Stop" and had a few hours to play with them last weekend. I have not had a chance yet to test the I'd out on a serious wrecking job yet but I am taking it up with me. Here is a preliminary report:

"Stop" on 11mm - WONDERFUL, smooth ride down, as fast as you want, on a good, firm, light rope. Disipates heat well. Tight, compact piece of equipment. Love it for the ride. BUT ... Hard (almost impossible) to take up slack in it if you move up the tree. You almost have to take it off the rope, move it up, and re-install it for any move up of more than a few inches.

I'D on 1/2" rope - big, clunky plastic thing. Actually rattles on the rope. Limits rate of descent. BUT ... you can body thrust with it going up the tree, so it it MUCH BETTER moving around in the tree. And, the safety feature of stopping your descent if you pull too hard on it works well - too well if you like a fast ride. Of course, it re-sets easily, so you can get moving again no big deal. And of course, it works on the 1/2" rope, which is what I have the most of.

So, the way it looks now, I think I'll be using the Stop for recreational climbing, and the I'D for work.

just curious if you tried a gri gri in your evaluations and how you think it compares to the id and stop. As I previously posted i have been happy with the gri gri with velocity. One thing I don't like about the gri gri is the weight of the rope below pulls the rope through itself as one climbs upwards. I like to leave enouph working end to safety over a branch or trunk to facilate uncoupling my lanyard to bypass.

 

[Fireaxman]

Mitch, I dont have a Gris Gris and dont have access to one, I would love to try it. The I'D and new rope busted me for right now, so I'll have to wait awhile to try it unless I get next to someone who has one. The ease in tending it during ascent that you talked about sounded like a big advantage to me the way I work, but it seems like you indicated it was a little sticky descending. I like to enjoy the ride down.

 

[Mitchell]

gri gri

To bad we can't order everything in the cataloge! Mind you I paid 80 bucks canadian for it so it did not break the bank. The gri gri does slide decently when you get the feel for it, [and there is not to much friction on tip with DRt.] I hope to try the id soon as it sounds decent, although I heard from others that it can be sensitive and hard to keep in the sweet spot when decsending?

 

[Tree Machine]

One thing I don't like about the gri gri is the weight of the rope below pulls the rope through itself as one climbs upwards.

This should definitely be viewed as an advantage. Occasional 'self-tending' (this only happens when there is sufficient weight below to pull the slack) but frees you from a climbing life of forced tending.

As you know, you can overcome this advantageous dislike by simply grabbing the ropes above the device for those moments, keeping them static. If you want to be hands-free, clip a biner above and below the device, so the GriGri is in the bight. Remove when that move is over.

Good info, guys. This is really helpful stuff.

 

[Mitchell]

touche [spelling]

This should definitely be viewed as an advantage. Occasional 'self-tending' (this only happens when there is sufficient weight below to pull the slack) but frees you from a climbing life of forced tending.

As you know, you can overcome this advantageous dislike by simply grabbing the ropes above the device for those moments, keeping them static. If you want to be hands-free, clip a biner above and below the device, so the GriGri is in the bight. Remove when that move is over.

Good info, guys. This is really helpful stuff.

good point tree machine had not looked at it that way. Great suggestion on capturing the gri gri in a beener to stop slip.
I often find myself when ascending using the gri gri with 5 feet or so of play terminated with a double 8 and beener for a second lanyard. with the weight of 60 feet or more of rope below it starts to pull the rope back through itself to the beener. Meaning I have to stop and re pull some slack out to secure myself when wanting to unclip my main flip to bypass. Minor PITA as I either kept the rope coiled on my person or drape loops over a lower branch to avoid creating to much weight. I think your suggestion will be the easiest yet
Scott