Do I need to replace the bar? Another newbie question.

[sshangreaujr]

I have bought stihl 038 av. It runs fine and has plenty of power but it does not cut well. The first time I tried to cut with it, it curved to the left something terrible. I ran a 7/32 file over the cutters on the right side of the chain 1 time each. Then I tried it again. Now it seem to want to cut straight but still cuts at a slant to the left, but no longer curves. I looked at the chain while I was cutting and the bottom of the chain is leaning to the left as I try to cut. The tension is adjusted correctly. (The chain turns freely by hand but does not hang down and if I pull the bottom of the chain. If I pull down on the chain with slight tension I can reveal 2-3 drive links and with a little more tension, 4-5 drive links. When released, the chain snaps back into place.) On my other saw, when I tighten the chain, there is almost no "wiggle" back and forth on the chain. On this saw, however, I cannot make the chain lean to the right but it does lean to the left.

Somebody told me "resurface the bar and throw the chain away." Is this correct? Is resurfacing the bar something I can do at home, with the proper (not too expensive) equipment. Taking the saw to a dealer is not really an option as the only dealer/mechanic in this area retired so now we are basically on our own now. That's why I'm here! lol. Anyway, was the "resurface the bar and throw the chain away" assessment correct? If I cannot "resurface" the bar at home then I need to buy a replacement bar. I've found several options at Bailey's, eBay, Amazon, and Oregon for replacement bars but they vary greatly in price and I'm not sure which one I should get. Finding one that fits doesn't seem to be a problem. I'm just not sure which brand to get or which model from which brand.

I am not by any means a professional (obviously) but I do plan on cutting a lot of firewood and I want something that will last a long while. I've used other people's saws for 20+ years but have never done anything to a chainsaw beyond tightening/changing the chain and replacing the spark plug.

If it matters for this type of general advice, here is what is on my saw now:
Bar Model Number: 200XXD025 HV (Oregon bar)
Bar Length: 20"
Chain Gauge: .050
Chain Pitch: 3/8
Chain type: D72
Drive Links: 72

Help guys. Thanks so much.

 

[MattCrowe]

Bar rails will wear unevenly when someone is heavy handed on a file favoring one side of the chain, its the nature of the beast, i have been cutting for years and still struggle to file chains evenly, some guys have it some guys don't, for what it is worth a new bar and chain (starting fresh) sounds like it may well save you a lot of heartache.

 

[bobt]

Yes, the bar could be worn, but that may not be your problem.

You reported that the saw cut to the left. The common reason that a saw saw cuts to one side or the other is that the chain is sharper on one side more than the other.

If your saw is cutting to the left, the right hand cutters on the chain are sharper than the ones on the left side. Less common would be that the cutters on one side are shorter than the other side.

I would make sure that the cutters on both sides of the chain are sharpened equally. You can do this by hand with a round file, or you can have it sharpened with a grinder by a professional.

I am betting that once the sharpness situation is taken care of, your saw will cut straight.

Bob

 

[sshangreaujr]

Yes, the bar could be worn, but that may not be your problem.
Bob

What about the fact that the chain can be tilted to the left (by hand) and tilts to the left while cutting? Does that mean anything so far as revealing information about the condition of the bar?

BTW, thank you very much bobt and MattCrowe

 

[bobt]

What about the fact that the chain can be tilted to the left (by hand) and tilts to the left while cutting? Does that mean anything so far as revealing information about the condition of the bar?

BTW, thank you very much bobt and MattCrowe

Well, if the bottom of the chain tilts to the left while cutting my firts response holds.

It all boils down to fixing the obvious before spending money on more expensive options.

I would sharpen the chain equally on both sides first. You may have to pay to have it ground at a dealer,,,,etc.

The dealer can tell if the bar is worn on one side more than the other, and do a quick grind on it to make it "straight".

It is too early to just swap out the bar for a new one.

If the price is not an issue,,,,,,well,,,,by all means,,,spend the money for a new bar and chain and your probs should be solved instantly.

Bob

 

[sshangreaujr]

Well, if the bottom of the chain tilts to the left while cutting my firts response holds.

It all boils down to fixing the obvious before spending money on more expensive options.

I would sharpen the chain equally on both sides first. You may have to pay to have it ground at a dealer,,,,etc.

The dealer can tell if the bar is worn on one side more than the other, and do a quick grind on it to make it "straight".

It is too early to just swap out the bar for a new one.

If the price is not an issue,,,,,,well,,,,by all means,,,spend the money for a new bar and chain and your probs should be solved instantly.

Bob

Thanks again Bob! I truly appreciate the time everybody spends on here helping us rookies figure this stuff out. Anyway, dealer is not an option. The only dealer we had close retired last year and the next closest is about 100 miles away and is closed on weekends so I cannot make it there during business hours. As much as is possible I would like to learn how to maintain my "new" Stihl 031av and 038av myself. Just to make sure, are these the steps I should take then to correct my cutting problems:

1. Get chain sharpened evenly and see if this solves the problem. If not:

At this point I need to know if I should replace the chain if step 1 doesn't work or if I should concentrate on the bar. I'd hate to have a bad bar ruin a new chain. I already have a new chain coming in the mail but am unsure if I should take the chance of putting it on a bar that could possibly ruin it.

2. Get bar resurfaced (Can I do it at home with some reasonably priced equipment? Also, does a "bad" bar ruin the chain? Can I save the bar and chain combo if the bar is "bad" or should I just buy a new chain?)

3. Replace bar and chain.

Thanks again bobt!

 

[RVALUE]

It has been my observation that there are very little noticeable differences in actually running a new bar. Paying for one, there can be a large difference. It takes a long time to realize the shortcomings of a 'cheap' bar.

However, this sounds like all chain.

If there are noticeable 'ridges ' on the bar, then maybe it needs a little grind. Try turning it over.

Top priority is to have your chain sharpened, and get a new one for backup. This will show where the problem lies. And most likely fix it.

It takes a real expert to look at a chain and see how it will cut.

 

[RVALUE]

But wait, you're in luck. This site is full of real experts!

 

[dave k]

The first thing to do is take some pics of the bar and of the chain and post them up without that info we can only speculate on the problem, sounds like a combination of problems.

 

[bobt]

Thanks again Bob! I truly appreciate the time everybody spends on here helping us rookies figure this stuff out. Anyway, dealer is not an option. The only dealer we had close retired last year and the next closest is about 100 miles away and is closed on weekends so I cannot make it there during business hours. As much as is possible I would like to learn how to maintain my "new" Stihl 031av and 038av myself. Just to make sure, are these the steps I should take then to correct my cutting problems:

1. Get chain sharpened evenly and see if this solves the problem. If not:

At this point I need to know if I should replace the chain if step 1 doesn't work or if I should concentrate on the bar. I'd hate to have a bad bar ruin a new chain. I already have a new chain coming in the mail but am unsure if I should take the chance of putting it on a bar that could possibly ruin it.

2. Get bar resurfaced (Can I do it at home with some reasonably priced equipment? Also, does a "bad" bar ruin the chain? Can I save the bar and chain combo if the bar is "bad" or should I just buy a new chain?)

3. Replace bar and chain.

Thanks again bobt!

Oh, OK, no dealer readily available. Gotcha! Haha!

Ok, first try the sharpened chain. It would be "best" if you can have the chain ground by a pro so that the tooth length and rakers are even all the way around the chain.

I didn't say anything about the rakers (depth gauges) before. They need to be about 25 thousandths of an inch below the top of the cutters. If one side is deeper (shorter) than the other, your chain will cut crooked. In your case the ones on the right side of the chain would be shorter than those on the left, as your chain is cutting to the left.

Here is how to tell if your bar needs to be ground so that both "rails" are even. You will need an accurate square. A try square would be the one I would use, but a combination square would be fine too. A carpenter's square would be pretty big, but might be ok.

Put the square on the side of the bar, and hold it tight to the rails of the bar. The rails should both touch the edge of the square. If one of the rails is shorter than the other, the higher of the two needs to be ground down to the level of the shorter.

You can use a bench grinder, an angle gringer, or even a belt sander ( if you are good with it). Of course your level of skill will determin your success.

Good luck!

Bob

 

[Mill_wannabe]

We know from your other thread you have another Stihl. If it's the same pitch (3/8) and gauge (0.050), you can swap that bar onto this saw and see what happens.

Look up top for the site sponsor Bailey's. On the right side of their home page, towards the bottom, they have a bar selector tool. You can use that to see what a new bar and chain would cost. I'm not saying buy one, but that can tell you how much effort (and frustration!) to put into this one.

Don't be afraid to pick the best parts of your two saws and get a saw running properly. That will teach you what you are looking for, and your ability to diagnose the problems with remaining parts gets better. A little success is a valuable motivator.

If I were you, I'd buy a spare chain and swap it on. That takes your ability to sharpen out of the picture. A spare chain is always desirable.

 

[zogger]

on your own

No dealer near you, you will be forced to become your own saw mechanic. No two ways to it.

Notice details. Look real dang close at that bar. Look right down the groove, notice the wear. Hold it sideways a little, notice any wear. Bar rails have to be parallel, with little to no slop in th width in order for the chain to ride in there and sit straight.

The chain has to be the correct gauge-width- for the bar, a .50 chain takes a .50 bar. A .63 takes a .63, a .58 a .58. Do your bar and chain match up that way, along with pitch? 3/8ths takes 3/8ths.

Once a bar is excessively worn, the width-gauge-gets worn too large, but it will be sloppy both ways. The rails have to be closed then, they make tools for that, or you might have to just buy a new bar. the top has to be "dressed" or filed or ground or sharpened flat and smooth.

Hand sharpening is an art, the only way to get better is to do it. Get some spare loops and have at it. Look for videos on youtube about sharpening chain. An inexpensive file guide will help at first until you can go freehand. If you start freehand just remember to be consistent about things.

Now check this thread out, most questions have been answered already in it about chainsaw use and maintenance

http://www.arboristsite.com/stickies/148248.htm

 

[Sagetown]

All very good answers on here, but before you get started, try this little test.
With a flat file, knock off a little from the top of the Rakers on the right side if the chain, then see if it will make a straight cut.

 

[blsnelling]

If chain the wiggles excessively then either the groove is worn or you have the wrong gauge chain. First make sure the chain is right. If so, them you need to pinch the rails. Baileys sells an inexpensive tool to do this. Then grind/file the rails square. Baileys also has a cheap tool for this. Your bar will be good to go.

 

[sawjo]

Check for ripped or worn AV buffers. (The rubber anti-viabration mounts on the saw).

 

[sshangreaujr]

Thanks again guys for all your help. The bar on my is as follows:
Bar Model Number: 200XXD025 HV (Oregon bar)
Bar Length: 20"
Chain Gauge: .050
Chain Pitch: 3/8
Drive Links: 72

The chain is an Oregon D72, which is correct for this bar.

Yeah, I realize that I will have to be my own mechanic. That's basically why I bought these old Stihls. A new hobby that's not as expensive and doesn't take up as much space as old chevys, lol.

As I said before, I have used saws since I was a kid but haven't ever repaired or maintained them myself beyond changing and/or tensioning the chain, changing the spark plug, and adding fuel mix and bar oil. I am mechanically inclined and logical to a fault but just have absolutely no experience with repairing chainsaws. That's why I'm here and I'm extremely grateful for all of your help.

Isn't the Internet great? That's what I really do, actually, computer and networking stuff. Anyway, thanks again fellas. It's great to have access to such good advice and years and years of experience, only a few mouse clicks away!

Are the tools I am looking for a "Bar rail closer" and a "bar rail dresser." Also, could you gentlemen recommend an affordable grinder for sharpening my chains that works well? Again I need to be able to do this myself but do not want to invest too terribly much only to find out that I am no good at it. lol.

I've ordered replacement chains for my saws but I don't want to put a new chain on my 038 if there is a chance that a "bad" bar may ruin it. I'd first like to determine if the bar is ok. Then, if it isn't, i would like to repair it myself if possible. Then, if need be, I'll replace it.

From the posts it seems to boil down to this: Fix or replace the chain first because it is cheaper then work on the bar if this doesn't solve the problem. I still have a dilemma however. I know you obviously cannot teach me how to sharpen a chain over the internet. That being said, however, is there a mid priced grinder that I can buy that will allow me to effectively sharpen the old chain before i take the chance of putting a new chain on a "bad" bar?

 

[sshangreaujr]

It has been my observation that there are very little noticeable differences in actually running a new bar. Paying for one, there can be a large difference. It takes a long time to realize the shortcomings of a 'cheap' bar.
It takes a real expert to look at a chain and see how it will cut.

What are these shortcoming? Is it better to buy a more expensive bar. Is it forester ok? Again, I do not make my living with a chainsaw. All I do is cut firewood but if it is definitely better to buy a better bar, I'll buy a better bar. However, I do not want to pay for a name if there are no significant differences between name brands and cheaper replacements.

 

[RVALUE]

I didn't re-read every post. Did you visually inspect the bar to be strait?

If so, it would be hard to damage a chain, provided it free spun by hand as you indicated.

Bars hardly ever go bad sitting on the shelf.

 

[RVALUE]

What are these shortcoming? Is it better to buy a more expensive bar. Is it forester ok? Again, I do not make my living with a chainsaw. All I do is cut firewood but if it is definitely better to buy a better bar, I'll buy a better bar. However, I do not want to pay for a name if there are no significant differences between name brands and cheaper replacements.

For occasional use, get the economic bar. BUT your old one is probably fine.

It's harder to sharpen a chain correctly with a power grinder than by hand. (ie harder to get it right by an amateur.)

 

[Sagetown]

For occasional use, get the economic bar. BUT your old one is probably fine.

It's harder to sharpen a chain correctly with a power grinder than by hand. (ie harder to get it right by an amateur.)

Granted the Pro bars are expensive, but I sure like the agressive attitude they display when working downfalls, and felling tough hardwoods.

Sharpening a chain is much easier by hand once an amateur understands the do's and don'ts about it. But, I found out a lot by using a power grinder. Using old worn out chains to pratice on to get it set up correctly, then taking that knowledge to the handfile made a world of difference in my sharpening techniques. Probably just me, cause I'm so thick headed.:biggrin: