Echo CS-360T

[Cliff R]

I've been running this saw nearly every day for several weeks. To be perfectly honest, I'm just not overly impressed with it. It is supposed to be Echo's answer to the MS200T, or Husky 338XPT.......I don't think so?

Anyhow, for those thinking of saving a couple hundred dollars and coming up with a rival to those saws, spend the extra money!

Here's what I have found:

This is a very high rpm saw, but pulls down easily in the cut.

It will barely manage the 14" bar, 12" would be better.

I absolutely HATE the built in rev limiter, it makes the saw difficult, if not near impossible to set the high speed mixture screw.

As you lean it up to improve rpms and power, the rev limiting module makes it start "4 stroking". The module also takes over when you are cutting small limbs/light load, fooling the tuner into thinking you've got enough fuel going to it.

I guess they tried to run these saws somewhat lean, for EPA reasons, and the rev limiting feature is supposed to save the piston? I can say this for certain, if I had left the factory limiting caps in place, we would have already "toasted" the piston. The leanest setting I can come up with is over one half turn RICHER than the limiting cap would allow!

Anyhow, overall it's OK, decent "grunt" for a piston ported saw, starts easily, and idles perfectly, but really doesn't have any more power than either one of my Pro Mac top handle saws. I actually think my converted to top handle and "modified" PM330 will out cut it.

We really like the other Echo saws that we own, the 510's are among my favorites, but even those saws should be limited to an 18" bar, 16" would be ideal.

The only good thing I can saw about the CS-360T, is that it cuts 3 times faster than the CS-300 and CS-301's we've owned. I could go back in the house an drink a cup of coffee and have a bowl of cereal waiting for the 300/301 to cut thru an 8" limb!........Cliff

 

[yophilly]

Hey cliff, I'm a newb here.....I just bought a 360T used and It bogs when I hit the throttle....also a little hard to start. I've been searchibg for how to remove the caps on the hi/lo adjustment screws to no avail. Can I just screw a drywall screw in the plastic caps and pop them out? Do they have to go back in after adjustment?

I'm a car guy and understand tuning and engines in general, but new to tuning chainsaws.

Thanks, Dave.

 

[Cliff R]

Yes, that's how I got them out on ours. You are lucky, mine would barely stay running right out of the box.

The rev limiter makes it somewhat difficult to set the "H" speed screw. I'd take it pretty rich then slowly bring it in making cuts after each adjustment. It will go on the rev limiter just about the same time that you find the most ideal high speed setting, so be careful not to continue to lean it out.

I've logged quite a few hours on ours, and it still runs flawlessly, PLENTY of power, and no "death rattle" as of yet!......Cliff

 

[yophilly]

Will the screws stay in adjustment like a normal carb. or do the caps have to go back on to prevent them from backing off?

Also, I assume that loosening (counter-clockwise) the screw richens the mixture?

Thanks again.

 

[kruege84]

Hey yophilly, welcome to the site!!

Thanks for the review Cliff. I've been looking into top handles recently and was looking at that model as a potential option. As I wouldn't be using is day in and day out, I'm a bit hesitant to drop $600 on a 200T. How do you think it would stand up to one of the less expensive Stihl or Husky models? Your talk about the rev limiter and carb being too lean from the factory has me thinking I should stick with Sithl.

 

[Cliff R]

The 200T is the "Cadillac" of small top handle saws, always has been. No one else has managed to pack that much saw into such a little square shape to date.

The Echo has excellent power, although I've never time cut it against a 200T, it ain't that far behind it. Runs up near 14,000rpm's, plenty of "grunt" as well. I've tasked it with some pretty big jobs to date, and have ran it long enough to know it's going to hold up just fine. It is considerably bulkier and probably a bit heavier than a 200T or 338 Husqvarna, but for less than half the price, it fits my line-up quite well as I don't use a top handle saw nearly as much as the smaller rear handle saws......Cliff

 

[Brian S]

Cliff, I don't get it.

First you were not impressed with the saw and said it was down on power and could barely pull 14" bar.

Now it has "excellent" power.

What gives?

 

[Fish]

There is a gap of a year or so from his first post.
Another thread he went into detail on how he re-engineered it a bit, you might
do a search on posts by him to read the details.

 

[Rftreeman]

I love my cs-300 with it's tiny 12" bar but I really love my 200t with it's 16' bar.

All this talk about rev limiters, by the time the EPA gets done we'll be back to cutting with cross saws.........

 

[kruege84]

There is a gap of a year or so from his first post.
Another thread he went into detail on how he re-engineered it a bit, you might
do a search on posts by him to read the details.

Nice catch, Fish. I completely missed the date.

 

[Cliff R]

Correct, my initial observations with the CS-360T were reflected in the first post. If you go on and read other posts we've made about the CS-360T, you will notice that I cut the muffler in half, removed the catalyst, and opened up the internal ports considerably. MIG'd it back together and WOW what a difference! That was a BIG wake up call for the saw. In addition, I figured out how to correctly adjust the high speed screw without being miss-led by the rev limiter coming in.

Finally, the biggest improvement of all was getting a REAL chain for it. The factory chain was horrible, and really not letting the saw show it's potential.

I've since went on to muffler mod our CS-510, which put it on par with our Husqvarna 55, where it matched it's performance doing some timed cuts. It seems some of the Echo models are pretty restricted in the muffler. Just a few days ago I speed tested our CS-370, Husqvarna 435 and the CS-400 in the same log. The muffler modded 370 outran the stock 400.....Cliff

 

[mountainlake]

Cliff, I don't get it.

First you were not impressed with the saw and said it was down on power and could barely pull 14" bar.

Now it has "excellent" power.

What gives?

Must be practicing for politics. Steve

 

[yophilly]

So I pulled the plugs out of my saw yesterday and fattened up the mixture. Runs great, no more bog and I think I'm done. Clean the saw, a quick sharpen, and pack it away until sunday.

Now I read this morning about muffler mods! Cliff, you're gonna make me start cutting into this thing aren't you?

This site is great, I would have fumbled forever. Thanks.

 

[Cliff R]

You'll need a MIG welder to put it back together. I used a really fine hacksaw blade to separate it into two halves. Once apart there is a "can" inside with a catalyst and 4 small exit holes. The can holds a large catalyst material. I removed the catalyst and opened up all 4 holes to 5/16". The exit hole of the muffler was left stock but I did modify the deflector just a tad.

Noticable difference. Right after I finished the muffler mod and bought a real chain for it, we had a big storm go thru here and take down hundreds of trees. I was hired by a contractor who bid removing a HUGE Beech tree from a nearby property. My job was cutting it up and taking down the remaining part of the trunk, about 20' long and nearly 30" across. He had a dump truck, front loader and two helpers. I cut up almost the entire tree with the CS-360T, and kept everyone busy loading brush and small limbs. I ran the 360 right down to the main trunk of the tree where I finished it up with the larger saws. Even the contractor I was working with commented on how fast the little top handle Echo was.

I've been running the crap out of it ever since, trying to get it to develope a "death rattle", all it does it exactly what it's supposed to, and hasn't given me any problems in any area......Cliff

 

[Urban Forestry]

Thanx for the info cliff. lookin forward to tryin it out. I've been using my 360t for 3 years now and it still works great! with the mods u gave i bet it will scream. I think the 360's are well worth the money. Ya you do sacrifce a little bit of weight goin with echo but for the 300$'s in savings......

I use the saw everyday and because of how well the small guy ran i went out and bought some larger Echo saws. Does the muffler mod work with pretty much all models? I would like to try it on my cs400. thanx

 

[Cliff R]

So far I've seen gains from modding all of them, except for the older reed valve top handles and the CS-670 and CS-6700's. They don't appear to be too restricted by the stock mufflers, at least in comparison to the smaller saws.

The CS-510 is the sleeper in the Echo line-up. After a minor muffler mod it outran my Shindaiwa 488 by quite a margin, and is equally as fast as my closed port Husqvarna 55.

The CS-370/CS-400's are easy to muffler mod, as the catalyst sits in a big "can" at the entrance to the muffler. I remove it, then open up the exit holes out of the can some. I also open up the muffler exit hole slightly, and modify the deflector.

With muffler mods, it is best to sneak up on things, rather than just making HUGE holes in them and end up with a loud saw that may be slower than when you started dinking with it.

Keep in mind here, that most of us are working these saws, and only want to make them efficient, not so darned loud you can't hear anything for days after using one of them!.....Cliff

 

[gman916]

Hate to rekindle an old post but...

I recently picked up a CS-360T, in the aftermath of our pre-Halloween snow storm in southern New England. I wanted a Husky but, they were all out of stock and this was really my only option. I've mostly lived with large saws all my life and have always wanted to add a top handle to my fleet...and the work left by this storm more than justified the purchase.

And now to the point of my post...

Since owning and running the saw almost daily in the past few weeks, I've brought it back to the dealer twice for carb adjustments. The first adjustment was the most needed...the saw was way too lean...bumped the rev limiter constantly...and you had to really work the throttle to get it to accelerate cleanly off idle. After this first adjustment, the saw operated much better but, not perfect. The high rpm seemed spot on but, the low idle was too high and would cause the chain to free wheel intermittently. I again returned to the dealer and asked them to correct the problem, which they did at no charge and the saw seems to operate ok (but haven't had a chance to test it yet...just had it re-tuned today). I've resisted adjusting the saw myself because, I wanted to give the dealer an opportunity to get it running decent, as this is a new saw. Although the dealer is great, I'm done screwing around and will take tuning into my own hands.

BTW...I ran the snot out of the factory chain, mainly because I hate throwing away money on something that isn't broke. After wearing the chain down, I didn't even attempt to sharpen and threw it out. Installed an Oregon chain and that made a huge difference in cutting!!!

Now back to the point....hoping Cliff can chime in here...

I understand how to remove the limiter caps but, do you have to reinstall them after adjustment? Do the caps, help hold the adjustment screws in place or are they only there to restrict the amount of adjustment? Seems some reinstall them and some don't...

I've searched several of Cliff's posts but, can't seem to find his secret to tuning the high rpm around the rev limiter. Can anyone offer any suggestions?

Muffler mod will be done soon but, want to make sure I've competently tuned this saw before, getting too crazy.

Thanks in advance and hope everyone has a Happy Turkey day!!!

 

[Cliff R]

Remove the limiter caps, they are not needed. I'd save them just in case you would have to return it for warranty work which is unlikely.

They are easily removed by engaging them with a sheet metal or drywall screw, and pulling them off the mixture screws.

With the engine fully warmed up, set the idle speed slow enough so the chain isn't turning.

Turn the "L" screw clockwise (lean) until the engine idles smooth and maximum rpms. If you go further than this it should idle down and start loosing rpm's/stalling out.

Back up the "L" screw from the highest/smoothest rpm point until the engine just slows down every so slightly.

Back out the "H" screw and do a few full throttle tests for a second or two, adjust until the engine slows down and looses power.

Here's the tricky part with a saw having a rev limiter. Start leaning it up (clockwise) and after each adjustment do a quick full throttle no-load test. It should be missing (four-stroking) heavily. Continue leaning it up until the engine sees pretty good rpm's but still four strokes.

Make a test cut. With each test cut, remove the load in the cut for a brief moment and the saw should immediately "four stroke".

Here's where the problem lies with the CS-360T. The rev limiter creates the same condition as a well tuned "H" speed screw.

The best advice I can give here, is to er slightly rich, and sneak up on the ideal setting for the "H" screw. You are looking for best power in the cut, not maximum rpm's at no load speed.

There is a cross-over point between the ideal "H" speed screw setting and when the rev limiter comes in with that particular saw. The way I find the best setting is to start out really rich, make some cuts, and continue to lean it up till it runs the best in the cut. If I think it's hitting the rev limiter instead of four stroking from the correct "H" speed setting, I'll turn the "H" speed screw slightly rich, to see if it looses power.

In any and all cases, set the saw for best power in the cut, at the richest setting. Keep in mind that oil is carried to the internals with the fuel, more fuel means more lubricant. Lean settings also create higher EGT's, high rpm's, and between lack of lubrication, high piston speeds, and high EGT's, it's pretty easy to "smear" some aluminum over the ring(s) on the exhaust side, a common problem we see here with saws which are ran to lean for whatever reason.

A muffler mod is a big wake up call for that particular saw, plan on setting the carb all over again after the cat is removed and the muffler opened up some.......Cliff

 

[gman916]

Cliff,

Thank you very much!!!!

When I get home tonight, the limiter caps will come off for good...and will begin learing to tune this saw.

Do you tune by ear?...or use an RPM meter to assist? I've mainly tuned by ear but, have an RPM meter and usually use it to see how close I am on my other saws. Just wondering how handy this might be on this saw, taking the rev limiter into consideration.

jon

 

[Cliff R]

No tach is really needed. We're after best power in the cut, without going to lean with the high speed fuel delivery. I've been working on small power equipment since the late 1970's, never had a single problem nailing down the tune on any 2 cycle engine. Rev limiters throw a slight curve at you, but if you start out noticably rich and down on power some, then sneak up on the best setting by leaning it up and making cuts, the rev limiter really isn't a problem......Cliff