Echo CS 400 Seized... What options?

[Black70fastback]

I have an Echo CS 400 that I seized yesterday due to what i believe was overheating based on the type of scoring and circumstances. I have been pretty happy with the way the saw runs after the muffler mod and adjusting the mixture so i think id like to know what my options are for fixing it.

Does anyone sell an oversize piston for this saw, say .020 over, so i can just have the existing cylinder bored? Can the cylinder even be bored because of the clam shell design?

If i have to buy both a piston and cylinder new anyway, can a piston/cylinder combo from a larger cc echo fit the existing saw with the existing crank, or would the stroke be wrong? or even just buy the crank as well and still fit it into the saw.

since it will be apart at this time anyways, is there noticeable benefit in port work on these cs 400 saws? digging out the cat in the muffler was already quite noticeable.

 

[Franny K]

If you download the parts sheet ipl they seem to call them around here it seems to me just put that number in the search box on Bailey's. I don't have any echo stuff though I did that and it seemed that an engine cost about two thirds of the whole saw. I would expect it is a plated aluminum cylinder or similar to plating electo fusion nikisial not sure if it really is totally electric of is kind of blasted in. Then it has to be machined with diamond tools, at least the way I think things go. The cast iron was what one over bored. That is pretty much your option that I can think up, perhaps there is an aftermarket short block.

You didn't put a picture, freeing up the ring using it to scrape the groove out so the ring is loose again and re assembling could be an option.

I guess another option would be to clean the smeared aluminum from the piston off the cylinder wall with muriatic acid and see if just a piston would suffice. Personally I have not had the need to mess with chain saw piston and cylinder, or plated cylinder on anything of mine but yes on the cast iron seizure.

 

[rmh3481]

If the cylinder is ok, the factory piston kit is part number P021010582. If the cylinder is bad above the exhaust port then the shortblock is part number SB1089.

Here is a used one;
1 Echo Complete Short Block from Echo CS400 CS 400 Chain Saw Chainsaw | eBay

 

[o8f150]

echo had problems out of the 400 with clearances,, put a piston kit in it and run it unless the cylinder is scored up,, the new pistons have the right clearances,, unfortunately there is no after market pistons for it that I know of,,, the piston kit is about 40

 

[Black70fastback]

i wont get the chance the finish knocking it apart at least until tomorrow evening and maybe put up a picture if i can figure out how.
if the cylinder is that hard like you said than maybe what i see is deceiving and is actually aluminum deposits onto the cylinder rather than grooves/ scores out of the cylinder. i am so far looking at it through the exhaust port and the plug hole with both just my eyes and an inspection camera. piston definitely shot.
will disassemble at first chance.

 

[Philbert]

Welcome to A.S.!

I think that site sponsor Edge and Engine has Echo parts if you don't want to buy locally.

Edge & Engine They also sell on Amazon.com, if there is any advantage for you to buy it that way (I did once when I had an Amazon gift card).

Philbert

 

[mountainlake]

Almost all I've seen were lean seized from being tuned lean. I've run the snot out CS400 saws with no problem when tuned right. Most likely the trouble with this one as it's easy to mistake 4 stroking for the rev limiter. Make sure to start way rich when tuning the gradually lean out until they cut the fastest in big wood, if they bog easy they're lean. Steve

 

[Black70fastback]

Which 400s had clearence issues?? ive had mine for a few years already. i dont thing it was long after they came out with that model... just looked it up. it was december of 2007

 

[Philbert]

If tuning / checking with a tach, these are the numbers from the owner's manual:

Engine speed Idle r/min 2,650
Clutch engagement r/min 4,050
Wide open throttle r/min 12,650

Anyone know if the lean seizure issues occurred below 12,650?

Philbert

 

[Black70fastback]

Almost all I've seen were lean seized from being tuned lean. I've run the snot out CS400 saws with no problem when tuned right. Most likely the trouble with this one as it's easy to mistake 4 stroking for the rev limiter. Make sure to start way rich when tuning the gradually lean out until they cut the fastest in big wood, if they bog easy they're lean. Steve

well, it was actually my first fear is that i screwed up the tune, which i hadnt screwed up before. but its my understanding that a lean seizure shows most or all of its scores around the exhaust port, right?

this seems to be pretty even all the way around almost like i ran it on straight gas, BUT I DIDN'T, and the other three saws running off the same tank that day are fine. the gas was lower octane than i usually use for that saw because i buy cheaper gas in the winter for the mower. So i THINK i over heated it running it on lower octane gas. it could still be a lean seizure of course. i await full dis assembly tomorrow.

 

[mountainlake]

Saw with tight tolerances need to be warmed up slowly, if you get it apart and the piston has score marks on both sides of the exhaust and intake ports that would be from tight clearance and not letting it warm up good. I did see one CS400 like that. Steve

 

[FergusonTO35]

Do these saws have a reputation for vacuum leaks and/or carbs that won't stay adjusted? Mine acts this way and its within the latest serial number range according to the IPL. I really like this saw but don't want to fry it.

 

[Black70fastback]

If the cylinder is ok, the factory piston kit is part number P021010582. If the cylinder is bad above the exhaust port then the shortblock is part number SB1089.

Here is a used one;
1 Echo Complete Short Block from Echo CS400 CS 400 Chain Saw Chainsaw | eBay

ok, i got it apart today and am 99 percent positive the cylinder will clean up nicely. (still will not order parts till i actually get it cleaned up) but according to the parts break down, the piston kit it lists for mine is P021010581, not P021010582 but P021010581 is not available anywhere. should i just use the one you guys gave me? is it the updated piston kit with better tolerances?

 

[timmcat]

With Echo part numbers if the change is only one digit it generally means the lower number has been replaced with the higher number from the factory. One thing to be cautious of is ethanol/h2o seizures. They manifest like a straight gas seizure because the engine temerature with make the h2o turn to steam and dry the engine of oil as its running, then you get scoring all the way around the piston. Most of the improper tolerance seizures were on the first serial range and they only seized on the exhaust side from the one I've seen. I wouldn't mess around with a piston on one of those, due to the clamshell design of that engine your better off just putting a short block into it, then all of your internal parts are fresh.

 

[Black70fastback]

With Echo part numbers if the change is only one digit it generally means the lower number has been replaced with the higher number from the factory. One thing to be cautious of is ethanol/h2o seizures. They manifest like a straight gas seizure because the engine temerature with make the h2o turn to steam and dry the engine of oil as its running, then you get scoring all the way around the piston. Most of the improper tolerance seizures were on the first serial range and they only seized on the exhaust side from the one I've seen. I wouldn't mess around with a piston on one of those, due to the clamshell design of that engine your better off just putting a short block into it, then all of your internal parts are fresh.

after dis assembly, it was just some light scoring at about the middle of exhaust port. i dont know why with my flash light before dis assembly it looked like it was worse than it was. engine still had good film of oil and all bearings feel and look good. looks to me like i just ran it a tad lean or was impatient with it.