Timber MacFallen
ArboristSite Operative
Well maybe this was correct 11 years ago. Like when the thread was started...
echo cs-400 vs. stihl ms-250
- Thread starter frogg
- Start date
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503mckinney
ArboristSite Lurker
I don’t work there but I do sell a lot of injection molding equipment to them and have for years now so have spent a great deal of time onsite. The reason I found this post is I was at two dealers today looking at saws and both dealers had both products on hand to compare to each another. Both dealers also said both saws have proven to be about equal in performance and reliability with the MS-250 being slightly stouter due to having a slightly larger engine. One of the dealers has worked on my CS-400 3 times now so is intimate with all the issues I’ve had but assures me that most saws of this model have proven reliable. The reason I own the Echo is I own several farms one of which is within 2 miles of a Echo dealer. This being said I may buy another CS-400 due to dealer location as it just makes sense at this particular farm. With this said I own the following Stihl products. All units are less than 8 years old but have had only one problem and that was with a plugged spark arrester on my MS-241 c-m which I cleaned a few weeks ago so saw runs flawlessly now. Below are all the products I currently own.
-1999 shindiawa trimmer. Never worked on and has been a great trimmer.
-2005 RedMax blower. On off switch replaced last year. No other issues
- Echo CS-400. Hard to start and won’t stay running. Low hours
-Echo head trimmer. Base gas model but no issues. Runs great
-2 FS94 Stihl trimmers. Bullet proof, powerful and light weight. My favorite trimmer ever tested. Very well balanced also.
-Stihl 362 c-m. Beast of a saw and no issues
-Stihl ms-241 c-m. My favorite small saw. Light, fast, strong and balanced. Unfortunately discontinued for US market.
-Stihl MS-271 great saw with good power. No issues.
-(2) 2017 Stihl FS-111 brush cutters. Powerful 4 stroke with no issues
-(2) BG86 blowers. No issues.
-Stihl HT 131 4 stroke pole pruner. No issues
-Stihl RB 400 Dirt Boss pressure washer. No issues. Great design. Planning to buy a second one soon.
I’ve had phanominal luck with Stihl products. Maybe just luck or maybe it’s because they make great products but hard for me to buy a lot of other brands because of my experience with Stihl. With this said I believe Echo and others make great stuff to Just not sure it’s any better than Stihl overall.
-1999 shindiawa trimmer. Never worked on and has been a great trimmer.
-2005 RedMax blower. On off switch replaced last year. No other issues
- Echo CS-400. Hard to start and won’t stay running. Low hours
-Echo head trimmer. Base gas model but no issues. Runs great
-2 FS94 Stihl trimmers. Bullet proof, powerful and light weight. My favorite trimmer ever tested. Very well balanced also.
-Stihl 362 c-m. Beast of a saw and no issues
-Stihl ms-241 c-m. My favorite small saw. Light, fast, strong and balanced. Unfortunately discontinued for US market.
-Stihl MS-271 great saw with good power. No issues.
-(2) 2017 Stihl FS-111 brush cutters. Powerful 4 stroke with no issues
-(2) BG86 blowers. No issues.
-Stihl HT 131 4 stroke pole pruner. No issues
-Stihl RB 400 Dirt Boss pressure washer. No issues. Great design. Planning to buy a second one soon.
I’ve had phanominal luck with Stihl products. Maybe just luck or maybe it’s because they make great products but hard for me to buy a lot of other brands because of my experience with Stihl. With this said I believe Echo and others make great stuff to Just not sure it’s any better than Stihl overall.
503mckinney
ArboristSite Lurker
Nope. Never has been the case period.
I 'll bite too. I just skimmed through a little bit of the thread and it blows me away people think an cs 400 is way better then an ms250. I have owned 2 used echo cs 400s and used them intermittently with my other saws a couple or so years and i have a brand-new 1 in the box unopened I snagged a bit under retail at an auction. Before breaking open the new 1 i wanted to confirm I'd like and use it enough to keep it. So I paid about $165 for a used 1 on ebay, which ended up not a good deal because it came with a slightly bent bar i ended up replacing. So I put on a new 16inch bar and chain and used it and compared it to my old 025 i been using several years and an more recent 023 I bought. What I liked better about the 400 is the starter was easiar to pull and smoother , and less vibration but none of them 2 things are a problem to me on the 2 old stihls. I am 62 years old, with a not so good right shoulder, and some worn and torn bones and joints. My 025 which is nearly the same as the ms250 I can use it many hours at a time without noticing fatigue or soreness from it. My 026 would tire me sooner.
The geometry of the cs400 with a16 inch bar made my back sore bucking wood on the ground for more then a tank or so of fuel, power was much closer to the 023, not near the muffler modded 025 and not near as snappy throttling it. The second cs400 I snagged cheap at a yard sale with an new 18in bar ran about the same and the 18in bar seemed a bit easiar on my back. I did like using it trimming small limbs and trees that needed removed but overall I would grab the 025 more because the power was there for bigger trees I usually encounter at the same time. As for reliability, i been around and using 025's since 1994 the first was at my job at a state tree nursery. They had an 025 , 034 super, and an 048 i and various employees and prison offenders used on and off through the year cutting firewood, brush, maintaining windbreaks. We had at least 5 wood furnaces originally between several buildings, went to 2 outside wood boilers for a couple buildings a few years later. All 3 of the saws were well used when i started and they cut all the firewood and other tree maintnence the whole time i worked there (10 years), were abused by novices and people who would rather break a tool then use it. I don't remember a single problem other then chain, bar and sprocket maintnence, certainly no overhauls. I bought my first 025 used probably about 2000 or sooner . Expect I had near 50 hours on it before it was stolen, but no mechanical failures and i got another 1 i put countless hours on with no mechanical failures I can remember. I bought several 025's and ms250s in various states of conditions that i restored to usable condition, tested for hours, then resold. I think the 50 hour life expectancy is bs, i have seen them on some cheap Poulan and knockoff brands, but the 025's I have been around and used held up superb, no less then pro models. Ms 250 should be just as reliable as it is basically the same with minor changes.
The geometry of the cs400 with a16 inch bar made my back sore bucking wood on the ground for more then a tank or so of fuel, power was much closer to the 023, not near the muffler modded 025 and not near as snappy throttling it. The second cs400 I snagged cheap at a yard sale with an new 18in bar ran about the same and the 18in bar seemed a bit easiar on my back. I did like using it trimming small limbs and trees that needed removed but overall I would grab the 025 more because the power was there for bigger trees I usually encounter at the same time. As for reliability, i been around and using 025's since 1994 the first was at my job at a state tree nursery. They had an 025 , 034 super, and an 048 i and various employees and prison offenders used on and off through the year cutting firewood, brush, maintaining windbreaks. We had at least 5 wood furnaces originally between several buildings, went to 2 outside wood boilers for a couple buildings a few years later. All 3 of the saws were well used when i started and they cut all the firewood and other tree maintnence the whole time i worked there (10 years), were abused by novices and people who would rather break a tool then use it. I don't remember a single problem other then chain, bar and sprocket maintnence, certainly no overhauls. I bought my first 025 used probably about 2000 or sooner . Expect I had near 50 hours on it before it was stolen, but no mechanical failures and i got another 1 i put countless hours on with no mechanical failures I can remember. I bought several 025's and ms250s in various states of conditions that i restored to usable condition, tested for hours, then resold. I think the 50 hour life expectancy is bs, i have seen them on some cheap Poulan and knockoff brands, but the 025's I have been around and used held up superb, no less then pro models. Ms 250 should be just as reliable as it is basically the same with minor changes.
503mckinney
ArboristSite Lurker
your correct it is entirely BS. Every Stihl product comes with lined engine bores are rated higher than 50hours. The 50hr rating is for low end Poulan and the old Homelite equivalents. Far below either the Echo or Stihl products. By the way If anyone is interested I can share a John Deere fiasco story from the late 90’s. It has to do with their purchase of Homelite as I was one of the product specialist involved in moving the manufacturing to Mexico. Lol.
I understand. I own both Echo and Stihl products. Both are great
If you want to sell that cs400 let me know
If you cant get a Echo CS400 running good you need a new mechanic. They run great and are really reliable when tuned right. The limiter caps have to be pulled and tuned good as with most saws now days. Steve
+2 on that deal. Those are excellent little saws, dead solid reliable in long term service.
I've spent some time with the MS-250's, inexperience homeowners tend to get the choke mechanism all messed up, but otherwise decent for the price point and a popular little saw in these parts......
I've spent some time with the MS-250's, inexperience homeowners tend to get the choke mechanism all messed up, but otherwise decent for the price point and a popular little saw in these parts......
Cursory search found that Stihl does in fact make saws in China. In my experience with Stihl homeowner/ranch equipment is they are heavy for their power output and overpriced therefore I avoid them and would choose an Echo product any day of the week.
Hickahollar
ArboristSite Operative
Echo's have a cat sthil doesn't just proves echo's catalytic converter is better than sthil's. I own both echo and sthil I like them both. I own a ms250 dont have any bark with a cs400 but I own a cs3510. My ms250 is far better even the plastic seems tougher than the echo plastic.
hosocat
ArboristSite Operative
Yeah, the plastic on the echo seems significantly thinner than stihl. I think the stihl could withstand more abuse and dropping. However, i drove off with the gate of my truck down. My cs400 fell out at about 25mph onto pavement. The brake handle broke, but i replaced that and its still running strong.
503mckinney
ArboristSite Lurker
Yes they do but none are shipped to the US market. This is from their Qingdao factory in China. But this factory only supplies the Asia markets with power tools. All professional series saws and many other high end products are manufactured in Germany and shipped around the world. All home owner and mid grade saws trimmers etc for the US and many other markets are manufactured in Virginia Beach along with trimmers, blowers, and tank sprayers etc. They also manufacture nylon trimmer line and have 4-5 Extruders that run miles and miles of the stuff annually. The US market is their meat and potatoes so to speak and it’s protected and supported accordingly.
I never said they were. But I think that fact coupled with the lackluster quality as of late has led to the “made in china” confusion.
503mckinney
ArboristSite Lurker
By the way tell me more about the limiter caps. So when I purchased the cs-400 new in 2015 it ran great. Very smooth and snappy. Then after about 5-10 hours of use it was hard to start, has to idle like forever before will take fuel and or will not stay running. Now during last use in 35F temps it won’t hardly take fuel at all and continues to die. I replaced the fuel filter, spark plug, air filter, and checked spark arrestor. Still no improvement. So figured at time since under warranty I would take to first dealer. They adjusted the carb and said was fixed. Seemed fine for first hour or two then started to die again. Brought it home from Ohio and dropped off at local dealer. Same thing as they tweaked carb and thought all set. Long story short this same senerio has happened 4 times now at 3 different dealers. At this point I’m at a loss as are the dealers. With this said do the limiter caps need to be removed in order to achieve appropriate amount of adjustment required for proper tuning? If so one would think a dealer would do this but honestly I don’t know to what extent they tried adjusting the carb. Also seems weird that Echo would restrict something to a point there’s not enough adjustment to properly tune the equipment. Thoughts?
Thank you.
Thank you.
That sounds like the low speed adjustment, that one might find better setting within the allowed range.
The dealers can't or won't really work it hard, set it down then try and start it. Occasionally something needs multiple adjustments over quite a time and then seems pretty much ok. I have a pole saw like that the dealer made it better but it did not last like you state.
Maybe this should be the Stihl MS251 vs the Echo 361p some 10 years later.
503mckinney
ArboristSite Lurker
Hmm ok so seems to make sense. Maybe this is why the dealers can’t or won’t fix. I’ll dig into further tomorrow to see what I can find out. Thanks
The limiters are an EPA thing to meet emissions as well as keeping idiots from burning the saw up. It’s not just Echo, you will find other manufacturers also use limiters on their consumer saws. Even Stihl. Go look at your MS271. Nice thing about the Echo is it only takes a drywall screw to remove the limiters and get full adjustment if needed.
Hickahollar
ArboristSite Operative
If it idles and won't rev up very well I would say adjust your low side screw. If it just won't adjust very well then I would think the carb diaphragm is gone bad.
