D
Deleted member 83629
Guest
echos are good but they got to compete with husq and stihl over the tool less chain tension thingy.
echo designers are on crack
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Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
That'll create some tool tension!I got a crack habit.....
zogger
Tree Freak
they have designers and engineers sitting around on the clock. Same as just about any other manufactured product. so..they change things, sometimes in a big way, sometimes incrementally.
Motor ve hick ells are *much* worse. and way more expensive.
As a comparison with minimum rage scales, etc, you get more saw now for the buck. Even with some of the goofy stuff they added to saws..like antivibe. I'll heft the extra weight there, I prefer antivibe. Tool less bars..pass. Decomp valves, sometimes useful. Advances in ignition and carbs...seem to be working, with some setbacks. Advanced thermoplastic instead of all metal..I like it. Stratocharging..someone was thinking.
Anyway, three saws, quite similar, three different price points..about the same as tons of other mechanical stuff.
Motor ve hick ells are *much* worse. and way more expensive.
As a comparison with minimum rage scales, etc, you get more saw now for the buck. Even with some of the goofy stuff they added to saws..like antivibe. I'll heft the extra weight there, I prefer antivibe. Tool less bars..pass. Decomp valves, sometimes useful. Advances in ignition and carbs...seem to be working, with some setbacks. Advanced thermoplastic instead of all metal..I like it. Stratocharging..someone was thinking.
Anyway, three saws, quite similar, three different price points..about the same as tons of other mechanical stuff.
I'llbearealclimberoneday
ArboristSite Member
Echo just has a line up to squeeze every dollar from some one who wants one of their saws. From $200 to 850 in $20 increments. Sounds like a winning financial plan to me.
I'm sure a lot of us do the same with our clients.
Almost all manufactures have a model that is basically a dumbed down version of another, both cost about the same to manufacture, but one has a higher profit margin. Throw in a floppy tensioned thing or a nicer grip and that gap closes quite a bit. I'm not much for the "toolless tensioners" either, and don't own any thing with them, but I do run echo saws exclusively. Why? The always start, run a long time, don't cost much and parts are always available on the rare occasion I need them. Sure cc to cc a husky will cut faster, but the trees aren't big around here and I'm not racing anyone.
There are a few differences between the models that the web site doesn't really show. Take the Cs370 vs the CS400. Essentially the same saw, same weight, but the 400 has about 10% more displacement, while the 370 has about a 10% higher compression ratio. an extra $30 get a slightly smoother saw. $30 less than the 370 gets a few cc's less but a crappy filtration system. Something for every one who likes there products.
Their top handle line up has every type of user in mind, the Cs271 for light pruning/deadwooding, an engine size up for slightly larger jobs up to the CS355 which is a real removal saw. The 370 I have has been run hard problem free for a long time. For a cheap reliable limbing/chipper saw, its hard to beat. The 590 is the best value in the 60cc size for "ranch" or a very small start up business IMO.
I'm sure a lot of us do the same with our clients.
Almost all manufactures have a model that is basically a dumbed down version of another, both cost about the same to manufacture, but one has a higher profit margin. Throw in a floppy tensioned thing or a nicer grip and that gap closes quite a bit. I'm not much for the "toolless tensioners" either, and don't own any thing with them, but I do run echo saws exclusively. Why? The always start, run a long time, don't cost much and parts are always available on the rare occasion I need them. Sure cc to cc a husky will cut faster, but the trees aren't big around here and I'm not racing anyone.
There are a few differences between the models that the web site doesn't really show. Take the Cs370 vs the CS400. Essentially the same saw, same weight, but the 400 has about 10% more displacement, while the 370 has about a 10% higher compression ratio. an extra $30 get a slightly smoother saw. $30 less than the 370 gets a few cc's less but a crappy filtration system. Something for every one who likes there products.
Their top handle line up has every type of user in mind, the Cs271 for light pruning/deadwooding, an engine size up for slightly larger jobs up to the CS355 which is a real removal saw. The 370 I have has been run hard problem free for a long time. For a cheap reliable limbing/chipper saw, its hard to beat. The 590 is the best value in the 60cc size for "ranch" or a very small start up business IMO.
cobey
Addicted to ArboristSite
I have twin 370,s we have raced at gtg's... good little saws, i run the heck out of them. a 370 was my first saw
7sleeper
Addicted to ArboristSite
Well I wonder what Stihl designers are on, because they put quick chain adjusters on pro saws....
http://www.stihl.de/STIHL-Produkte/...e-Forstwirtschaft/22214-1582/MS-261-C-BM.aspx
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http://www.stihl.de/STIHL-Produkte/...e-Forstwirtschaft/22214-1582/MS-261-C-BM.aspx
7
SawTroll
Information Collector
Well I wonder what Stihl designers are on, because they put quick chain adjusters on pro saws....
http://www.stihl.de/STIHL-Produkte/Motorsägen/Sägen-für-die-Forstwirtschaft/22214-1582/MS-261-C-BM.aspx
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They actually was guilty of starting that "trend"....
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
Engineers rarely get to sit around and dream up things to design. What they work on, whether they think it's worth a crap or not, is usually dreamed by some marketing group, or by a team of sales, marketing and engineering people. The people doing the design work get told what to design.
While there are usually holes you could drive a truck through in the specifications they get, things like product positioning (590, 600, 620) would be planned out.
I know tool-less chain tensioners get a lot of hate on here and I personally wouldn't own a saw with one on it (At least with current tool-less technology which I despise). However, you would be surprised how many people like that kind of thing. Tool-less anything is really popular among consumers.
We sell Echo at my dealership and I do not like their version of tool-less any more than Husqvarna or Stihl's version. However, people come in looking for it. Selling (or manufacturing) what you want vs. what the masses want is a financially bad mentality. At least it's offered as an option, not a requirement.
We sell Echo at my dealership and I do not like their version of tool-less any more than Husqvarna or Stihl's version. However, people come in looking for it. Selling (or manufacturing) what you want vs. what the masses want is a financially bad mentality. At least it's offered as an option, not a requirement.
Wannabe123
ArboristSite Operative
True. Case in point (and I like the brand) the 2166/2172 Jonny. You can buy the same weight and less power for 100 bucks cheaper, or get the full power that cost just as much to make for 100 bucks more. I have considered the 2166 because I don't really need the extra umph and I have a hard time justifying the extra money, and yet I'm holding off because I want the most I can get if I have to lug that much saw around. In the end I figure more people will spend money as a result of the "a saw for every need" strategy than will hold off as I am doing.
sunfish
Fish Head
I'm a crackhead also...I got a crack habit.....
HuskStihl
Chairin'em for the sound
AS needs a "sucks donkey balls" smiley
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
The job of the marketing man is to turn wants into needs. Those two saws share most of the parts and basically cost the same to make. If they can convince you to spend $100 more that is mostly profit.
It's just an option. Much better than only offering the saw with one. I am not a big fan of tool-less chain tensioners, but they probably feel that they need to compete with features on other consumer saws.
I hate that too. Especially when they 'de-tune' or put a smaller piston and cylinder in a saw just so that they can market one in that displacement category. Why not just point out that they can get a more powerful saw, that weighs the same, for less money, than the competition? But then, I am not as rich and successful as the Stihl family, or the Husqvarna folks, or the Poulans, . . .
Philbert
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
Heh, Poulan was smarter, they did just the opposite. Regardless of what displacement is on the side (at least for the smaller ones), they're all 42cc. Product differentiation by decal - the customers are so clueless they never even notice there's a sticker on the back that says 42cc.
And of course few even question that larger displacement saws are priced higher. Clearly it doesn't cost a penny more to make a larger displacement saw of a given series - a little more material in the piston, a little less in the cylinder, the same number of manufacturing operations, etc.
Wannabe123
ArboristSite Operative
Yeah, I agree. Then again they could give me the whole hog power out of that 71cc and charge me the sub 5hp price and they'd still be making plenty of cash. Dern free markets, don't companies know when they've made enough money and need to start considering the common good of poor men who want big chainsaws
zogger
Tree Freak
Joe one occasional saw plan buys bar** length mostly.
CL translation "blade". That's the only size they really look at.
cedarshark
Addicted to ArboristSite
Here is a pic of an Echo 550 EVL I just finished to replace my Stihl MS280. Both saws 55cc but the echo is 2x the quality of the Stihl and I am tired of replacing the intake boot on the MS280. Over the past 2 years I have gained a healthy respect for Echo and am in the process of replacing all my Stihl clamshells with Echos pro constructed saws for 1/3 the price. The Timberwolf has replaced the Stihl MS390.....on and on.
Green Machine did the same thing. They had a 14", 16", 18" with all of them being 40 odd cc and cost ranging from $129 to something like $179
Adirondackstihl
Flyz, Fuel & Fotos
Pics of crack ?
