Ethanol is here, now what?

[OilHead]

Look at the THERMODYNANICS. Ethanol has LESS energy content, you CANNOT get the same milage (unless maybe all that water/ethanol in your tank has started to go through....). Also because of the above it requires a RICHER (e.g. MORE fuel) air/fuel mixture in ALL 2- 4- cycles........

Exactually then because of this lean condition some saws may experiance & overrev condition & eventually take out the exhaust side of the piston due to the lack of quench.

 

[Brmorgan]

I dunno about all the thermodynamics, but Husky/Mohawk has been putting up to 10% ethanol in their fuels for at least 10 years or so in Canada. I use it all the time and seem to get better mileage than other fuels, though I've heard the opposite from other people so maybe it's a case-by-case thing. I have a feeling older engines wouldn't like it as well. Their "regular" gas carries 10% ethanol and a 90 octane rating for the same price as 87 octane regular elsewhere. That being said, I rarely run it in my chainsaws. I use marked fuel for pretty much everything other than my car - it's up to 10 cents per liter cheaper than regular and is 92 octane premium.

 

[16:1mix]

It's been here for two years... and it's a non-issue.. so long as you don't keep your gas (after mixing) for more than 60-90 days. Check your fuel lines every year for bloating or cracks.

If your saw is more than a year old, you'll likely need to retune very slightly richer.

We've had ethanol for 20+ years. I would prepare and use any fuel with alcohol well within 30 days, my target is within about 2 weeks. Alcohol has poor long term storage properties, other than that....just run it or give the carb a little tweak as Lakeside suggests.

 

[poulson01]

My '01 Dakota had a check engine light. Evap. Small leak detected. I looked at the test port hoses under the hood. I found the problem in about 10 seconds. Every connection, where the rubber hoses pushed onto a nipple, the hose was cracked. Probably 6 places. I asked a few tech buddies and the consensus was ethanol.

 

[Octane]

As long as the fuel is fresh, the use of ethanol-blended fuels shouldnt be an issue.
If detonation is really that much of a concern, just go from using 89 to using 93 octane fuel. That should eliminate any concerns with detonation.
I use ethanol-blended fuel in everything ranging from my chainsaw to my leafblower to my snowmobile. I use my stuff hard and I havent had a problem, so IMO you shouldnt have a problem.

 

[teacherman]

My '01 Dakota had a check engine light. Evap. Small leak detected. I looked at the test port hoses under the hood. I found the problem in about 10 seconds. Every connection, where the rubber hoses pushed onto a nipple, the hose was cracked. Probably 6 places. I asked a few tech buddies and the consensus was ethanol.

Nice. Bet the hose manufacturers are doing pretty well..........:angry2:

 

[l2edneck]

Be sad is all i can say,that crap makes my truck run horrible....i get MAYBE 11mpg......:censored:

 

[JLROOT]

I generally don't store fuel in my 2-cycle equipment. I run it dry if I don't know for sure I will be running it within a week. Non-issue in this area also if ethanol should be drained after each use?

Thanks

Now i've heard that running dry is very bad (if you run out the gas you also run out the oil). Who knows you hear a lot of things. I for one am not going to go out of my way to fill up before it runs dry.

 

[l2edneck]

Now i've heard that running dry is very bad (if you run out the gas you also run out the oil). Who knows you hear a lot of things. I for one am not going to go out of my way to fill up before it runs dry.

Thats because when you run it out of gas it runs lean at the end...always try to not run out.....

 

[NWnewguy]

Not the end of the world, but not the answer either.

I think most peoples basic misunderstanding of ethanol is very unfortunate. It is actually more expensive than petro to produce. There are two basic reasons companies are putting it in fuel more now than ever, 1. It is being required by law in a lot of states and 2. The US Gov. is offering them huge insentives to use and produce more ethanol. This is costing your average citizens in more ways than you can count and an economist could keep himself busy for a life time figuring all the different reasons why that is. Some of the more obvious are the recent increase in Pork and Poultry. Which by the way is only just now beginning, it will get much more obvious very soon. ( If you have a large freezer, now would be the time to stock up.) As a nation we did not have some huge glut of corn that was sitting around wasting away. The use of even a small percentage to produce ethanol is going to result in large price increases everywhere. Also, corn is not even close to the ideal vegatative matter to produce ethanol. Swithgrass is much better for the soil, can be harvested mutiple times in a growing season and produces up to 6X the ethanol per acre. Unfortunately for Switchgrass there isn't much of a lobby for it compared to the Corn lobby. Oh well, at least we went to war in Iraq so that we could enjoy this cheap oil, just like the democrats said.

 

[OilHead]

Exactually then because of this lean condition some saws may experiance & overrev condition & eventually take out the exhaust side of the piston due to the lack of quench.

- Octane is an issue & think most of us agree to pick up the highest # available but some are still missing the point here in that 10 % ethonal is going to lean out the mixture & will require more fuel to eliminate it.

 

[ropensaddle]

I don't know about anyone else but I just wish I could still
say filler up with ethel and get my windshield washed, oil checked,
washer fluid filled all for the thirty cents per gallon it costs.

 

[Yasha]

I'm with you Arkansas Bro.

I don't know about anyone else but I just wish I could still
say filler up with ethel and get my windshield washed, oil checked,
washer fluid filled all for the thirty cents per gallon it costs.

Another evidence that America just ain't what she used to be. :monkey:

 

[JohnL]

So are you saying all gas in your area will be a min of 10% ethanol ?

Basically all gas here is E10. You can also get E85. I have not been able to find straight gas.

 

[ropensaddle]

Another evidence that America just ain't what she used to be. :monkey:

Yeah I was just a kid, but still remember when it was hard to find
a self service gas station. It has went downhill from those days
in my humble opinion. At friggin todays prices it seems like, the ceo
of mobile oil ought to be kissing my azz for every gallon purchased.
Topless window washers or sumpin, vasoline for sure! I don't know
how they can rip us off that bad and not feel uneasy or have a hard
time sleeping at night. I also can't understand how the trucks keep
rollin and can see an out of control economy close at hand, just
wandering when is all? It is almost too expensive to work for crying
out loud and feel for the people drawing social security or some
measly retirement for a life's service.

 

[slabmaster]

Has anyone used a lead additive to cool the engine down to compensate for the ethanol? Don't know if it would work,but seems like it might help. Mark

 

[Fastcast]

Another evidence that America just ain't what she used to be. :monkey:

Truer words couldn't have been spoken!

But watch what you say....The GW worshipers (like my brother) will scold you hard. How dare you say anything bad about the Country or state of being.

 

[oneoldbanjo]

Lead won't do anything to cool an engine down - unless you are have a problem with detonation caused by high compression or low octane. Tetraethyl Lead was an additive that helped slow down the burn inside the cylinders and made a gasoline able to get a higher octane rating. It also helped to lubricate valves and valve seats - but won't do anything to help a 2 cycle engine. Lead additives/subsitutes are made for older engines that have soft valve seats and need the cushioning effect to prevent the valve seats from deforming.

Back in about 2001 I had a pickup truck that would get 400 miles to each tank of fuel. I drive pretty much the same way every week and I kept track of my mileage at each full up. When they went to the "reformulated fuel' here in the Cincinnati area my mileage dropped to 360 miles in each tank. When this first happened I didn't know what had happened and I started looking for the problem and changed sparkplugs, air filter, fuel filter, etc. and even though the truck seemed to run fine - the mileage had dropped 10%. One week I was in Maysville, Kentucky and bought gas and suddenly got 400 miles on the next tank - and that was when I realized that the problem was the Cincinnati fuel. Cincinnati was having air quality issues and the EPA made all the surrounding counties use reformulated fuels in order to qaulify for the Federal Money used on the roads. Later I learned that the local mower shops were recommending that lawn services buy their fuel in Clermont County as they were not involved in the EPA requirement. For a while I could drive 10 miles and get normal fuel at a BP station in Clermont County and still get the 400 miles to each tank. Eventually all the fuel in the area became "reformulated" and has alchohol in it.

I am not sure what other "improvements" this fuel has in it besides alchohol alone - but I am certain that it made a 10% reduction in fuel mileage in my electronic fuel injected truck.

 

[t613]

I avoid the ethanol issue completely by using off-road racing fuel in my saws. I've been doing that for over 3 years with zero negative effects. It does smell like a race track when I cut though.... Luckily I don't cut every day and a gallon lasts a month or so, so I can almost justify the $8.00/ gal cost.

The worst issue I've heard with ethanol is that it turns the resin in fiberglass gas tanks (older boats) to mush, causing it to run through the fuel lines/ carbs./etc. and springing holes in the tanks! Avoid using it in anything with a fiberglass tank, or you'll be sorry. Upgrade to a plastic tank first!

A buddy that is the service manager at a Honda shop (motorcycles, power equipt., not the cars) said he saw a huge spike in fuel system related issues when ethanol first came to CT. The Honda carbs. didn't like it so much.

Minnesota had a proposal on the table to increase the blend to 20% ethanol, just a hunch, but I'm guessing you'll see a bunch more problems with older carbs. if that happens.

Gotta love progress...

 

[Nitroman]

I just use AVgas. Less expensive than race fuel, and smells almost as good.:biggrinbounce2: