F-450 - should I get Diesel or Gas???

[rattler555]

For larger trucks diesel is the only way to go. How much are you looking to pay for the used truck? Are you looking to buy it out right or taking a loan out etc? In either case the best bet is too buy new, your will save yourself a lot of headaches.

Looking to start out with a used and upgrade accordingly. The truck -97 f450 w/92k is going for 4700. I think that's a steal......I'm also a little sketchy -precautions - so i'm bringing 2 of my friends who will stay in the car and overseer the transaction . The guy seems ok on the phone I asked him a bunch of questions besides the truck to - aka about his business to feel him out and he seems legit - he's just looking to downsize. Anyways I'm not sucker so hopefully for his sake he's on the up and up It's a CR listing so we'll see.......

 

[TreeW?rx]

If it is a CR listing, take a friend or a friend of a friend. Someone who knows diesel engines. Let them take it out for a drive, check under the hood and if the guy is running a business he should have a service record on it. Find out where he had it serviced. You might be able to ask them if the guy was on top of maint. or just brought it in to fix stuff that he screwed up. Buying a car form a citizen in one thing, a work truck is a whole other ball of wax. If this guy sells you a lemon and you end up creaming a minivan full of toddlers cause he didnt take good care of his equipment, you have a whole lot more to loose since it is a work/company vehicle.

Not saying dont do it. Just cover your a:censored:

 

[Koa Man]

You can buy a Dodge Ram 4500 or 5500, equal to the F450 and F550 as far as GVW is concerned and it already comes with a Cummins. I have owned Dodge with the Cummins and was very happy with both. I currently still have my 2001 Ram 2500 with the Cummins and 134,000 miles. Still running strong. I did have to change the injection pump at 110,000 miles, but I did the job myself over one weekend.

You can get either a CAT or Cummins in the Fords if you go F650 or bigger.
I have seen some Ford F450s and F550s I would have liked to buy, but it had the 6.0 PSD which was a deal killer. I also don't like automatic trannys unless it is an Allison.

 

[BlackenedTimber]

I have an '09 F450 with the 6 liter diesel. She's new and beautiful, and I love her to pieces.

But... now all you guys have me worried that I'm gonna end up with a 12,000 pound paperweight in a few years when the motor chits the bed. Thanks Fellas!

All in all, the truck is a beast. The 4x4 works great, pulls great, rides as well as I would expect a 450 to ride...

As far as the price of diesel is concerned, so much of it, IMO, has to do with supply and demand. There is always going to be a market for diesel. Tractor-trailers, trains, heavy equipment, ships, work trucks, farm equipment, generators, etc. This is all stuff that HAS to be fueled, or the job doesnt get done. So, the refineries make less of it, because the demand is always high, and the prices stay aloft regardless of whether or not Johnny Smith and Family decide to take a labor day weekend roadtrip.

T

 

[afblue]

'97? I would reconsider. There are some drawbacks to the ford diesels. Unless they have changed their engines, the diesels run great, reliable for a while, then...you will regret owning one!

The engines have a special computer driven fuel injection system that costs about $1500 PER CYLINDER for parts alone, and that does not include the highly technical labor required to fix it. Once these engines get about 10 years old, the cost of an engine repair makes it not worth owning anymore. The ford diesel WILL NOT OUTLAST a gas engine, not because there is anything mechanically wrong, just that what must wear out is more expensive than a new engine, which is more than the used truck will be worth.

They don't have a conventional fuel injection pump, and No! You can't work on it yourself. At all. Except maybe to change fuel filters. And Yes! The dealer knows these things and will break it off on you when the truck finally needs a repair.

If you plan on buying new, and owning it for only 5 or 6 years and then dumping it on some unsuspecting fool, the diesels are fine. Otherwise, buy the gas, own something you can own for 15 years. Furthermore, as more people get burned by this engine, it will become well known that you should not buy a used Ford Diesel, so I suspect that the resale value will be low.

I know I have no intention of owning another one. Mine is a 1995, and it cost me over 4 grand to get one cylinder fixed last year. The gas engines work just fine for me, and I used to prefer the diesels, back when they had injection pumps on them.

That dealer also make you a deal on some "ocean front property in Arizona" you couldnt refuse?

I am owned the 3 Powerstrokes that Ford has put in their HD trucks. a 1995 7.3, 2000 7.3 and a 2006 6.0. Compared to what the other manufactures produced before 2000 the 7.3 was the best of all of them. THEY DO NOT HAVE $1500 OF ELECTRONICS PER CYLINDER. The injectors new from the dealer are expensive $325 each, but you can buy rebuilt ones for $119. So yes they are more expensive than spark plugs and gas injectors but dont start scaring people because you got a bad deal on your truck.

The 7.3 Powerstroke is indestructable. My parents neighbor now owns my 1995 with 278,000 miles on it. My father bought my 2000 and it has 242,000 on it. My 2006 had headgasket issues that I was well aware of at 88k, and yes I would say to the average person the 6.0 will make you want to pull your hair out sometimes.

Especially on a 1994.5-1997 there is no more more electronics on it than a regular gas engine. 1999-2003 7.3 have updated electronics that you can read with a regular code scanner.

There are 61,458 people on the powerstroke.org forum and at least 20,000 of them are 7.3 owners. A 7.3 loaded will out haul, with better gas mileage, and no overheating a V10, its not a $6-10k option on a new vehicle "just because"

 

[Koa Man]

I have an '09 F450 with the 6 liter diesel. She's new and beautiful, and I love her to pieces.

T

If you have a '09, you DO NOT have the 6.0 liter PSD. That engine was in the 2003-2007 model years. A 2009 should have the 6.4 liter.

 

[BlackenedTimber]

Yes, Thanks Koa...

The truck is up on the farm in NY, and my GF was feeding me vodka last night... My judgement and recollection may not have been up to par last night...

The motor is indeed a 6.4L Powerstroke V8.

T

 

[Cowboy Billy]

The Ford 7.3 diesel is not a ford engine. It is a international diesel engine. With or without a load my F-250 gets 15 mpg. The exception to this is if I am running the rpm faster than 1800 rpm which with my axles comes out to 67 mph. I have hooked up to and pulled a 17,000lb trailer load combo with no problem. After that I put a DP tunner and single shot injectors in it and it gave me a lot more torque. The full set of injectors was $1350 and the programable chip was about $400.

One thing you will want to check on the engine. While it is running take the oil fill cap off of the valve cover and see how much blow by is coming out of it. I did not know to check it when I got mine and I had a broken ring from someone using either on it I think. There was so much blow by I would not have been able to pour oil in it as it would blow it back out. Another note it takes almost five gallons of oil to change it but 8 to 10K oil changes are normal on it.

Billy

 

[corsair4360]

Ford Diesels

The 7.3L, the 6.0L and the 6.4L diesels in Ford trucks are all from International / Navistar. The 7.3L is a rock solid workhorse. The 6.L and 6.4L are powerful, meet current emissions and have caused Ford endless headaches. Th 6.4L is better, the early 6.0L's were a nightmare. Two of my friends work at Ford dealerships and are certified to work on them. One says the 6.0L and 6.4L find a new way to break every two weeks.

For 2011, Ford will be bringing out their own medium duty diesel engine to replace the 6.4L, developed by Ford.

Do you think Ford spent lots of money to build a new replacement motor because they were happy with the Navistar / International diesel?

 

[Bearcreek]

It's never made sense to me why Ford didn't use the International DT 360 straight six. They would have had an engine comparable to the 6BT Cummins. I've heard it was the perceived advantage of being able to advertise a V8, which is ridiculous to me, but people are fickle I suppose. I hadn't heard about Ford making their own diesel, that should be interesting. They've been putting diesels in their small pickups for many years overseas.

 

[gorman]

i got a diesel and it's been good to me until now. at 60K miles i had to have the engine pulled out to replace the oil pan which so far has kept me out of work for 2 weeks because i took it to the WRONG place. Hold on to the good mechanics you meet and send the rest to Jiffy Lube.

 

[rattler555]

The Ford 7.3 diesel is not a ford engine. It is a international diesel engine. With or without a load my F-250 gets 15 mpg. The exception to this is if I am running the rpm faster than 1800 rpm which with my axles comes out to 67 mph. I have hooked up to and pulled a 17,000lb trailer load combo with no problem. After that I put a DP tunner and single shot injectors in it and it gave me a lot more torque. The full set of injectors was $1350 and the programable chip was about $400.

One thing you will want to check on the engine. While it is running take the oil fill cap off of the valve cover and see how much blow by is coming out of it. I did not know to check it when I got mine and I had a broken ring from someone using either on it I think. There was so much blow by I would not have been able to pour oil in it as it would blow it back out. Another note it takes almost five gallons of oil to change it but 8 to 10K oil changes are normal on it.

Billy

Thanks for the advice. I will def check for blow by. Also, I found some info online to listen to the engine during a cold start and check for knocks, erratic idling and look for dark black smoke or white smoke indicating glow plug problems. Some dark black smoke is ok during start up but should subside after idling down. Dark black smoke indicates cylinder/compression issues.

 

[lego1970]

White smoke is generally unburnt fuel. The thumping, knocking and crackling sound you hear when a diesel starts up cold is from not all the cylinders firing or not firing at equal pressure. So it kinda thumps like a Harley until the cylinder temps come up and all fuel is burning properly and equally across the cylinders. Because of the oily fuel you will always have some black smoke but a lot of black smoke at start up can be from worn rings. The majority of the smoke should go away after it warms up and the rings start to seat better. If any of the smoke continues at high levels after it's warmed up, it could be numerous things, worn rings, bad head gasket, leaking injectors, bad seal on the turbocharger, leaking cold air charger or intake manifold, and numerous other things. Also check the oil pressure. Make sure it's not to lazy coming up to pressure and that it's not too low. That could be something as simple as low oil, but could be worn oil pump or worse worn main and rod bearings. I can't think anything else of the top of my head. Good luck.

 

[fishercat]

i am not a Ford fan.

must be from years of working on them.the are great flower pots though.

in all fairness,my buddy has a 2004 F-550 with a V-10 and has had no problems.i cannot say that for my buddies with their diesels.

 

[TreeClimber57]

You can buy a Dodge Ram 4500 or 5500, equal to the F450 and F550 as far as GVW is concerned and it already comes with a Cummins. I have owned Dodge with the Cummins and was very happy with both. I currently still have my 2001 Ram 2500 with the Cummins and 134,000 miles. Still running strong. I did have to change the injection pump at 110,000 miles, but I did the job myself over one weekend.

You can get either a CAT or Cummins in the Fords if you go F650 or bigger.
I have seen some Ford F450s and F550s I would have liked to buy, but it had the 6.0 PSD which was a deal killer. I also don't like automatic trannys unless it is an Allison.

Personally the ONLY diesel engines I would buy are Detroit, CAT or Cummins. Which is why I use only Dodge for the trucks. I have yet to have a problem with the Cummins engine. Now the transmission is another story.. and if you do buy a Dodge get a manual transmission (IMHO). Together the two will outlast about 3 bodies on the vehicle.

 

[gilraine]

'97? I would reconsider. There are some drawbacks to the ford diesels. Unless they have changed their engines, the diesels run great, reliable for a while, then...you will regret owning one!

The engines have a special computer driven fuel injection system that costs about $1500 PER CYLINDER for parts alone, and that does not include the highly technical labor required to fix it. Once these engines get about 10 years old, the cost of an engine repair makes it not worth owning anymore. The ford diesel WILL NOT OUTLAST a gas engine, not because there is anything mechanically wrong, just that what must wear out is more expensive than a new engine, which is more than the used truck will be worth.

They don't have a conventional fuel injection pump, and No! You can't work on it yourself. At all. Except maybe to change fuel filters. And Yes! The dealer knows these things and will break it off on you when the truck finally needs a repair.

If you plan on buying new, and owning it for only 5 or 6 years and then dumping it on some unsuspecting fool, the diesels are fine. Otherwise, buy the gas, own something you can own for 15 years. Furthermore, as more people get burned by this engine, it will become well known that you should not buy a used Ford Diesel, so I suspect that the resale value will be low.

I know I have no intention of owning another one. Mine is a 1995, and it cost me over 4 grand to get one cylinder fixed last year. The gas engines work just fine for me, and I used to prefer the diesels, back when they had injection pumps on them.

sorry you had bad luck with yours, the 30 or so we had at work were great. we replaced them with isuzu NQRs and the fords were better trucks..we ran several of those box trucks to 600K on the original engine.. a gas engine has no place in a 1.25 ton truck IMO.. the 7.3 is one of the best diesels ever put in a light duty truck, ranked only behind the 12 valve Cummins IMO...

 

[John D]

Your looking at a 97 truck...so a V10 is out...it would be a 460 in a truck that old,.and forget it! I say take a chance with the 7.3 PSD,its a good motor if it was maintained.Oil changes are very important on the 7.3 as the injector life is directly tied to the oil condition.A 460 in an F450.would get 3-6 mpg in a good day and not enough power,as the old 460 wasnt exactly a powerhouse.

 

[BlackenedTimber]

I'm guessing you dont have to worry about cold weather out there in Maui? Then definately no contest between gas and diesel...

gotta go, my GF is feeding me vodka again...

T

 

[lostcoastland]

get a six speed diesel cummins...7.3's have thin cylender walls..a "improvement" over the 6.9 "my beloved smokey steed"..A straight six is simply a better design..Have you HEARD those cummings engines??!~!

 

[JTinaTree]

Too many hear says on hear about Ford Diesels and not enough people that know what there talking about..
Im more than a Qualified Mechanic to work on Ford Diesels.. Ive got a 04F250 6.0 with almost 150k and still running strong.. Also know several people with high milage 6o's . The main reason for problems is the emission Bull sh@% That ford was mandated to put on all 03 and newer Diesel engines.. Take the converter off, Block off the Egr Cooler and let it Rock.. The 7.3 are good if you dont mind oil in your driveway.. The external oil lines will always seep oil.. and a stock 6.0 will get better mpg and out pull it with 27-30psi spooling up in the turbo All though I will never buy a 7.3 or newer stopped up Emissionized 6.4.. All diesel engines have there little quearks about them..
Get the torquey v10 if you dont wont to join the Diesel Club.. But once you spool up a Powerstroke with 12k behind you and still have plenty of pedal left, you wont settle for a gaser..