"Fake" chainsaws

[belgian]

anyone want to answer my question?

Darin,

the european market is flooded with chinese knock offs at the moment. They are sold through different brand names, but carry the CE label. They have been promoted under STihl names also, but that phenomena is fading away, probably under pressure from Stihl. I have seen ads from Stihl warning for these knock offs.

I don't think there's in any direct safety issues involved, apart from using low quality components. You could ask the BBC why they have to address the public with these questions, while we pay hords of expensive european officials to make sure the CE label stand for something decent. The UK is also member of the EU...well sort of...

European manufacterers have spent millions of euro's to increase safety on power equipment ; I think they are well placed to comment on safety features and risks on these knock-offs. The AS public will not be considered as "experts" in a legal matter anyway, just my 02 cts, so I also have my doubts about the legit character of the BBC request.




here's a list of brands used

 

[Winn R]

Remember the "good ole days" said Lee Iaccoca, "when Japanese stuff was junk?"

The Chinese Government used to be a partner in every factory. Many of the fakes were made in the same factory as the originals by the same workers doing some ot on the night shift. The product would go out without the labels.

That's changed because it would kill the golden goose.

Those people aren't idiots. Now us, on the other hand....

 

[SawTroll]

It's legit. Ever heard of http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00rgghn?

Looking at Fake Chainsaws!!!

I believe that totally fake Stihls and Huskys (that are not even copies of any legit model) are much more common on the UK market than on the US one - it probably has something to do with different laws and/or punishment levels.

They turn up pretty often on the UK E-Bay.
Because of this, our UK members probably are the ones to ask, and that limits the numbers quite a lot......

 

[Muffler Bearing]

Get the EPA involved. They will 'em!

 

[Trever]

Big MAC

I wonder if I shipped a Mac Sp-125 over to Taipang city if the Chinese would try to knock it off?

They are probably working on it now or have already completed a run. They can mimic about anything; cheaply.

Trever

 

[edisto]

We have been approached by a TV show that really is interested in "fake" chainsaws.

Here is what they said in the email.

We already have a case of one importer selling dozens of fake 'Stihl' chainsaws. In tests they had no fuctioning power release trigger and would carry on if dropped or in a fall. We'd very much like to hear from any of your members who might be able to give us a good idea of how dangerous one of these could be in novice hands? I'd also appreciate any suggetions or tips on the issue in general.

I guess if they wanted a detailed response from this bunch, they should have asked about oil ratios.

As has been pointed out, even the finest chainsaws are dangerous in novice hands. The dangers of a saw that won't stop running should be self-evident.

I'd recommend the following for their show:

1) Attend (or film) a chainsaw class to get across the dangers of using a chainsaw. I'm not aware of too many other tools that require specific safety classes. Hopefully they can find one where they hit a pork shoulder or ham with a saw, because that would make good video.

2) Kickback will be explained if they do take a class, and chain brakes are easy to test. Just let the saw tip drop 12"-16" and the brake will engage. Should be easy to test some "fake" saws against some brand name saws. Again, the dangers of kickback should be self-evident once they know what kickback is.

3) Like any cutting tool, a dull tool is a dangerous one. I wonder how bad the chain quality and initial sharpening is on these? Shouldn't be too hard to compare those to the chain that comes with a brand name saw.

4) Have them log on to AS as a newbie with the following post:

"Just got a new chainsaw. The throttle sticks, so the chainsaw won't stop turning, and the chain brake doesn't work. I only have a few dead trees to clean up. Is it OK to go ahead and use it, or should I get it looked at first?"

The PPE police will fill the thread with grisly tales of horror and safety advice.

 

[Rudolf73]

snip

I have 2 of these saws - different filter cover though and 62cc instead of 52cc. The safety seems pretty good so far - the chain brake etc works fine and no revving out of control. Its a copy of a Redmax G5000. I was chatting to the importer here in Australia and he sells around 50 of them per day on ebay, so someone must be buying them.

The stihl copies they are talking about might be the 070 chinese clone with no chain brake.

There are also other 'unsafe' chinese chainsaws like this one for example LINK

 

[neutral4x4]

I run a few saws without the all of the safety features that come on these newer saws. I've never even been close to being hurt by a saw.

That being said, my dad has a small scar from a saw kicking back on him. If he didn't have a chain brake, he could've easily been an amputee. I'm not really sure exactly what happened because he was too embarrassed to tell me.

If a saw doesn't have a chain brake, it can be very dangerous if the operator becomes distracted or even worse is inexperienced.

 

[JayC]

Darin,

the european market is flooded with chinese knock offs at the moment. They are sold through different brand names, but carry the CE label. They have been promoted under STihl names also, but that phenomena is fading away, probably under pressure from Stihl. I have seen ads from Stihl warning for these knock offs.

I have one of those. I bought it for $125 delivered, and wasn't promoted as a name brand. It's called "52cc Gasoline Chain Saw". It's actually not bad, once I reworked it using a donor saw. It has a working chain brake and actually runs well. Its a reasonable backup.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=133609

OTOH, I have found Stihls (MS180s and MS250s) through alibaba - wonder who really makes them...

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/281720213/MS180_Stihl_Gasoline_Chainsaw.html
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/299663827/Stihl_MS250_Chain_saw.html

edit: I just saw the "WARNUNG" label on your saw. Funny.

JayC

 

[rxe]

We already have a case of one importer selling dozens of fake 'Stihl' chainsaws. In tests they had no fuctioning power release trigger and would carry on if dropped or in a fall. We'd very much like to hear from any of your members who might be able to give us a good idea of how dangerous one of these could be in novice hands? I'd also appreciate any suggetions or tips on the issue in general.

This is a very specific question, and it supposes they have their hands on one with a stuck trigger - so whether your knock off saw does it is irrelevant, they have got some that do.

The obvious answer is to show just what a chainsaw can do to you. If you drop a saw running at full power onto a side of pork, it will make a hell of a mess. Substitute pork for human.... I would have imagined that they can get someone who has taken a saw in the face (or similar) to appear.

Practical demos are the best. I've seen it done many times with table saws. Take a table saw with no splitter, slice up a chunk of polystyrene, and watch it come back at you at 90 mph. Its harmless because it weighs nothing....but it makes the point.

Demoing a kickback if they find one with a defective chainbrake would be pretty powerful. I don't think there is an issue with us running saws that are old and have no brake - if I ran a modern saw, I would expect the brake to work.

 

[8433jeff]

Quote: I expect the brake to work

If I run (when I run) a modern saw, I make sure the chain brake works. I expect people to do the same, thats why they are shown how to. I'm sure there are some of these saws that will have safety troubles, but any saw can injure and kill. Chainsaws don't kill people, people kill people. Stupid people kill more.

 

[WoodChuck'r]

I'm gonna say that ANY chainsaw is dangerous in novice hands!!

 

[demographic]

"Not avaliable in your area"...is what I get.

It looks OK to me and I have seen that baldy bloke in the picture on the TV.

The BBC sometimes blocks traffic from abroad as you don't pay the licence free, that might be why it says what it does?

I'm not sure though.

 

[Grande Dog]

Howdy,
From my experience, if it's a knock-off and it doesn't have a safety feature it's because the sample they copied didn't have it either. Their efficiencies are in copying, not redesigning. Remember to stay away from anything that isn't a genuine counterfeit.

I would be willing to bet that there are more OEM saws being used that have non functional or non existant safety features than all the knock offs that have come in combined. Of all those, I would say that the vast majority of owners know that the safety feature is non functional or, was made non functional by the current or former owner.
Regards
Gregg

 

[rmihalek]

We have been approached by a TV show that really is interested in "fake" chainsaws.

Here is what they said in the email.

We already have a case of one importer selling dozens of fake 'Stihl' chainsaws. In tests they had no fuctioning power release trigger and would carry on if dropped or in a fall. We'd very much like to hear from any of your members who might be able to give us a good idea of how dangerous one of these could be in novice hands? I'd also appreciate any suggetions or tips on the issue in general.

Really would be grateful if you would be kind enough to ask your members about this potentially dangerous issue. Thanks for your time. Please feel free to let anyone get in touch by email or phone. Many thanks

So carry on my friends.

I wonder if this is really a law firm with maybe one case looking for others to start a class action lawsuit?

 

[rxe]

If I run (when I run) a modern saw, I make sure the chain brake works. I expect people to do the same, thats why they are shown how to. I'm sure there are some of these saws that will have safety troubles, but any saw can injure and kill. Chainsaws don't kill people, people kill people. Stupid people kill more.

You know how to check a chain brake, so do I, so do most of the people who post here. Many homeowners do not have a clue what a chainbrake is or does - witness the number of "locked up saws" that come in for repair. These people aren't stupid, they just don't know about saws.

 

[eyolf]

Is this thread about chainbrakes, or knock-off saws?

The chainbrake is broken on my 395xp; a keeper got loose, and I've never fixed it. I don't worry much. On smaller saws I would be concerned, because its a lot more common to cut for long periods of time and become distracted or inattentive.

Re knock-off saws: I havent seen any chinese saws, except those blue dogs. Here's why that might be:

Most of that stuff is available by the container from the east, but would YOU take a chance on a container load something that would likely bite you in the butt? The only way to get smaller quantities would be to deal with someone who opted for the container, and most of us are too smart to be the middleman between a P.O.'ed consumer and an importer that has never heard of you.

The only model that would really work is Ebay selling, but even then there would likely be multiple layers of the feds on you like flies on schmidt. So, in this case, one could say that consumer protection rules actually do something.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

anyone want to answer my question?

I'll answer it: any saw in a novice hands can be dangerous. The problem with Chinese knock-offs is not only safety but the disaster they cause to the offended country's economy. Countries like the U.S. and Germany spend countless dollars on research on how to make the best product and the Chinese buy one, disassemble it, and copy the parts only with cheaper ones, made with, sometimes, slave labor and put it one the market for less than half of what a good one costs. People unknowlingly buy these thinking they're getting a good product. That's why most countries are running a deficit and China has a surplus. Elect me President and we'll quit dealing with them!

 

[SawTroll]

I think we have two different types of fake saws at hand here;

One is the 070, 038 etc copies made in China.

The second is the ones the sometimes appear in scams on the UK market - they are not copies, but basically the saws that Belgian posted about, posing with decals that indicate that they are spesific Husky or Stihl models, usually 395xp and MS440 (links to several of those scams have been posted here).

I suspect it is the second category that this thread originally is about.

 

[gallegosmike]

It's legit. Ever heard of http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00rgghn?

Looking at Fake Chainsaws!!!

From what I can tell, those so called "fake" saws are being heavily imported into australia and new zealand versus the USA. The only chinese made saw Ive seen was at harbour freight. It was a 35cc throw away saw. It was really junky! Here is a link to some chinese saw "manufacturers & suppliers".


http://www.chinasuppliers.globalsources.com/china-suppliers/Chainsaw.htm